<p>I know that African-Americans, Hispanics, and Native Americans are all considered underrepresented minorities, but what is the deal with Asians? For schools like NYU and University of Michigan- Ann Arbor or any schools similar to those do Asians still get any advantage as underrepresented minorities or any advantage at all?</p>
<p>I haven't looked at NYU and U Mich, but at many elite schools, Asian-Americans are an over-represented minority. In general, acceptance rates for the Asian-American pool are pretty comparable to those for the white pool, although there are probably a few schools where the acceptance rates are lower for Asian-Americans, due to the large number of applicants for a limited number of slots.</p>
<p>There would generally be an advantage for first-generation Southeast Asian-American.</p>
<p>Asians are not underrepresented in NYU or UMich and are not considered as such. I don't think first generation Southeast Asians have any advantage at NYU or UMich. I would say fully 15% of the population at NYU is Asian American (if not more).</p>
<p>They might be underrepresented at say Williams or Swarthmore (guessing from being invited to Diversity weekend) etc.</p>
<p>In order to be an underrepresented minority you have to be underrepresented in the setting. This is not the case in some schools, that happen to be the most selective national universities in the US when it comes to Asians. Most schools are underrepresented in Asians, however, and Asians who apply to such schools, go to those schools are minorities at those schools. My friend's son goes to Ohio University in Athens, Ohio. He is part Asian, and is one of very few students of any color there.</p>
<p>In many of the colleges in the cities, particularly the state schools, African Americans and Hispanics are not underrepresented. They compete fiercely for meager resources and for spots in the school which are often one of the few options available for them to get out of a pretty grim life. I do pro bono college counseling at an inner city school that is virtually all black and Hispanic, and it is not feasible for these kids to go off to a college where their URM status comes into play in giving them some preference in admissions and money. For them to continue to go to college, a part time spot at the community colleges is the only option because their stats are too low and, frankly, even if we turn a blind eye to those stats, they are not prepared to go to many colleges where they would be minorities. This is the sad reality in spite of the many Affirmative Action programs around. It is a struggle for these kids to even go part time to a community college program. Ideally, they would go away to college, out of their environment, but most have family issues and problems that make it impossible for them to leave. There are not any colleges that have the extensive support system they would need should they go away, even if they could get away. </p>
<p>So being a minority in one's environment is really seeking an environment where you would be a minority. In any underrepresented situation that they want more of, colleges are willing to make concessions to get more. Whether it is the oboe player desperately needed in the orchestra, the classics major to keep the department alive, the football players to keep the program going or students of various ethnic groups to keep the campus diverse. It is a difficult situation in that we tend to flock to where there are many like us--international students like to apply to schools where there are a lot of international students, making their admissions far more selective when choosing a school where they are a rare bird would make their admissions less of a crap shoot.</p>
<p>Asians would get an advantage at schools where they are underrepresented in comparison to their percentage in the overall US population.</p>
<p>I would imagine that this could include liberal arts colleges in out of the way places. Such might include places like Grinnell and Bates particularly since I don't think lots of Asians are flocking to LACs in Iowa and Maine. I would imagine, however, that LACs in a state like California, which has a huge Asian population, are not having difficulty attracting Asians.</p>
<p>Most colleges have on their web sites stats about their minority population. Check those stats, and if you find a very low percentage of Asians are there, assume that there's a good chance that being Asian might be a plus in admissions.</p>
<p>I also suspect that U of Wisconsin, which doesn't have a high minority population, might be a place in which being Asian would be a big plus.</p>
<p>In addition, there are some Asians that are counted among URMs in general. Those include Cambodians and Vietnamese because apparently those subgroups of Asians have relatively few students who go to college.</p>
<p>"In addition, there are some Asians that are counted among URMs in general. Those include Cambodians and Vietnamese because apparently those subgroups of Asians have relatively few students who go to college."</p>
<p>This is what is known as FALSE information. Please research what you say before you speak. Vietnamese are not an URM in college, they are infact over represented. For example Vietnamese make up betwee 4-5% of the UC population but comprise of only 1.37% of California population. For the URM asian it is extreamly rare for them to considure such by universities since most universities typically lump all asians together.</p>
<p>VTBoy,
You seem to be right in that overall there are differences between how people of Cambodian background are doing compared with people of Vietnamese backgrounds:
"According to the 2000 Census, Americans from some Asian backgrounds for example, people from Cambodia and Laos are significantly less likely than most other Americans to hold college degrees, more likely to have had no formal education, and more likely to live in poverty. However, the communities are quickly progressing in these and other areas. </p>
<p>Most Americans from Cambodia, Laos, and Vietnam arrived in the U.S. as refugees after the Vietnam War, or are the children of refugees. They number over 1.8 million, and people in most of their communities have become U.S. citizens at rates higher than the national average. </p>
<p>The Southeast Asia Resource Action Center (SEARAC, <a href="http://www.searac.org%5B/url%5D">www.searac.org</a>), a national organization for Americans from Cambodia, Laos, and Vietnam, has just released statistics from the 2000 Census and other sources detailing its community's profile. Some of their most striking findings are in the fields of education and income: </p>
<p>Attainment of Bachelor's Degrees: Over half of Hmong-American women members of a group renowned for their partnership with the U.S. during the Vietnam War have had no formal education at all, compared to a national average for all Americans at just over one percent. Only about five percent of women in that community have college degrees, compared to nearly a quarter of Americans overall who are aged twenty-five and over. On the opposite ends of the spectrum among Southeast Asian Americans, nearly twenty percent of Vietnamese adults hold bachelor's degrees, and only eight percent of them have had no formal education. Cambodian and Laotian Americans tend to fall between the two extremes. Just over nine percent of Cambodian adults hold bachelor's degrees or higher, as do over seven and a half percent of Laotian Americans. " <a href="http://www.searac.org/pr-2000-census.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.searac.org/pr-2000-census.html</a></p>
<p>It's important to recognize, however, that while Vietnamese may not be URMs in Calif., they are URMs in some states. Here's the qualifications for a URM program at University of Wisconsin-Madison:</p>
<p>"Students must be statutorily designated AND self-identified as African American, Hispanic, American Indian/Alaskan Native, or Southeast Asian students (Cambodian, Laotian, Hmong, or Vietnamese descent who entered the U.S. after 12/31/75)." <a href="http://www.lssaa.wisc.edu/pathways/programs/retention.shtml%5B/url%5D">http://www.lssaa.wisc.edu/pathways/programs/retention.shtml</a></p>
<p>Thus, whether Asians are considered URMs depends on the type of Asian a student is and the policies of the colleges and states.</p>
<p>"It's important to recognize, however, that while Vietnamese may not be URMs in Calif., they are URMs in some states. Here's the qualifications for a URM program at University of Wisconsin-Madison:"</p>
<p>While this is true, the reason would actually be due to the fact that Vietnamese people don't apply to those schools since they don't live in those States. Only 4500 vietnamese live in the whole state, making the Vietnamese population only around 0.1% of the state population. No doubt the grant is to intice vietnamese from other states like California to come to their school, and perhaps stay in the state.</p>
<p>Asians are not considered URMs in the elite colleges. I agree with VT. </p>
<p>Northstarmom said, "Check those stats, and if you find a very low percentage of Asians are there, assume that there's a good chance that being Asian might be a plus in admissions." </p>
<p>This statement above is also false. Asian Americans are 4% of the population and included in this 4% are Americans of Southeast Asians (Vietnamese, Cambodians, Thais), South Asians (Indians, Pakistanis) and Far East Asians (Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Singaporeans, Hong Kongnese, Taiwainesse) and Asian Pacific Islanders and Filippino descents . The demogragphic group known as "Asian American", about 4% of the American population includes all the aforemention groups. This how the US Census Bureau classify "Asian Americans" and the colleges do likewise.</p>
<p>Asian Americans are overrepresented or over 4% at almost all the top universities, including the LACs (Swarthmore, Amherst, Haverford, Bryn Mar, Vassar, Barnard, Williams, Pomona, etc..) , the Ivies, the top state universities (U.ofTexas, U.of Cal., U.of Washington, U.of Georgia, U.of Florida, U.of Wisconsin, Madison, and the service academies such as West Point. </p>
<p>Asians are about 15% of the 8 Ivies, 13% of Swarthmore, 11% of Amherst, and even 6% of West Point. Asian Americans are 20% of the U.of Texas and 3% of the Texas population were many are Vietnamese Americans</p>
<p>Therefore Asians Americans are not given an advantage in admissions, but a disadvantage because of overrepresentatation are are admitted at lower rates than any other applicant group and subjective to diversity goals and de facto racial quotas.</p>
<p>Food for thought:</p>
<p>2/22/01 and 4/3/01 Brown Daily Herald
Brown University Class of '05</p>
<p>16,500 applicants</p>
<p>Asian Americans: 20.3% of the applicants, 16% of the acceptances
African Americans: 6% of the applicants, 9% of the acceptances
Latino Americans: 7.1% of the applicants, 9% of the acceptances
Whites and others: 66.6% of the applicants, 66% of the acceptances</p>
<p>2/12/01 The Daily Pennsylvanian (<a href="http://www.dailypennsylvanian.com%5B/url%5D):">www.dailypennsylvanian.com):</a> Asian American applicants represent 31% of the 19,086 applicants for the University of Pennsylvanias Class of 2005 but only about 23% of the acceptances. UPenn accepts Asian Americans at a lower rate than any other group.</p>
<p>Check out:</p>
<p>washingtonpost.com </p>
<p>"Should Colleges Have Quotas for Asian Americans?"</p>
<p>Im applying to NYU and Ann Arbor. Do you think that I should compare the overall Asian popluation in the state and in the university? Im not sure what a big number would be for these schools.</p>
<p>Yes, VT boy, when Asians apply to public (and probably also private) schools in states that don't have many Asians, they probably are highly desired by admissions. This is just like how people from the Sunbelt are highly desired candidates in many Midwestern and Pacific northwestern schools. </p>
<p>Being an Asian and applying to a college in California or Hawaii more than likely would not help one's admission's chances because there's an abundance of Asians in those states. If the same student, however, applied to a school in Wisconsin or Iowa, they probably would get a tip.</p>
<p>Northstarmom said, "Yes, VT boy, when Asians apply to public (and probably also private) schools in states that don't have many Asians, they probably are highly desired by admissions. This is just like how people from the Sunbelt are highly desired candidates in many Midwestern and Pacific northwestern schools."</p>
<p>Northstarmon, again, you may be correct, but your point is moot, because you are talking about the non-competitive schools. Yhese schools have over a 50% to 75% admit rates, where preferences do not affect the applicant's chance, whaterever race they are or wherever they live. Mainly these schools are interested in warm bodies.</p>
<p>Asians, as a group, are at a distinct disadvantage when applying to competitive colleges, or the top 100, if you will. They are given a minus(-) and are admitted a lower rates than any other group. They are required to have a higher level of achievement.</p>
<p>So you mean colleges with a acceptance rate of 30% or under would give Asians a disadvantage?</p>
<p>I believe that there are some very competitive colleges (i.e. top 100 ones) that have a hard time attracting minority students. These would include some LACs, particularly the lesser known ones, plus some excellent public universities that are in states that don't have lots of minorities.</p>
<p>University of Wisconsin, for instance, is ranked about #42 in the country by US News. </p>
<p>Grinnell is highly ranked, and I believe has a hard time attracting all sorts of minorities. I also would imagine that places such as Bates, Bowdoin, Kenyan and Washington & Lee -- all excellent liberal arts colleges that are in isolated areas without lots of minorities -- probably are interested in attracting minorities of all kinds.</p>
<p>While places such as HPSY and University of Michigan probably don't have a hard time attracting Asian students, there are plenty of excellent colleges that do. I also would bet that colleges that include international students when they describe their "minority" students are apt to be colleges that have a hard time attracting any kind of minorities.</p>
<p>The universities that I am looking at are George Washington University, NYU, Penn State, UMich- Ann Arbor, University of Texas at Austin, Boston College, and University of Wisconsin-Madison. I just was curious about the whole Asian affirmative action deal. Its becoming pretty big. If anyone has time could they tell me what they think about these schools in connection to Asian acceptance?</p>
<p>Also thanks so much for your help! I understand this subject much better now!</p>
<p>University of Wisconsin has some nice merit aid that is focused on diversity issues. It would be open to anyone (including whites) who would help make the campus diverse. This includes people who have good ideas about how to expand the university's diversity. You can find info about it on UW's web pages. It requires a special application.</p>
<p>THanks for you help! Can anyone else give me some suggestions?</p>
<p>Northstarmom,</p>
<p>Mystic wanted to know specifically, "The universities that I am looking at are George Washington University, NYU, Penn State, UMich- Ann Arbor, University of Texas at Austin, Boston College, and University of Wisconsin-Madison. I just was curious about the whole Asian affirmative action deal."</p>
<p>I would say that Asian Americans are overrpresented at every one of the aforementioned schools and are not considered URMs at anyone of them. Asian Americans, therefore will not receive a "tip" based on race alone or ethnicity alone, as blacks and latinos do, based solely on the color of their skin or a hispanic name, and nothing else for "diversity" via goals or de facto quotas. Asian Americans are over 4% of the students at everyone of these campuses. These schools are considered competitive and highly competitive in admissions and they have more than enough Asian Americans (over 4%) on each of these campuses. I mentioned the U.of Texas-Austin. It is 20% Asian American where Asian Americans are 3% of Texas' population. Of these Asian Americans, a fair number are Vietnamese Americans. Even at the U.of Virginia, a state university in a state with very few Asian Americans, Asian Americans are not given a plus (+) or a tip, but may given a negative(-) in admissions according studies of its admissions through the Freedom of Information Act. Asian Americans are almost 10% of the U.of Virginia.</p>
<p>Click on;</p>
<p>Statistics on Reverse Discrimination by University of Virginia.
<a href="http://www.ceousa.org/docs/virginia2.doc%5B/url%5D">http://www.ceousa.org/docs/virginia2.doc</a></p>
<p>From this site you will see the admissiions data from the U.of Virginia and how Asian Americans are not given a tip, with the use of race preferences on admissions.</p>
<p>You also mentioned Cambodian Americans, a miniscule group in the total population of Asian Americans. I know of no school actively recruiting Cambodian Americans, but even if they apply in small numbers, they would not be given a tip based on their Asian race, but based on the economic factors and "first in the family to attend college", but not on race. These preferences transcend race, because blacks and latinos receive the economic and "first in family" preferences in addition to their race and ethnic preferences. The race preference tips the scale more than any other preferences given by the elite colleges.</p>
<p>In fact, the major beneficiarcy of the race preference at Harvard or the highly competitive colleges are not poor blacks, but underachieving and underperforming middle and upper middle class blacks, admitted under lowered standards relative to the rest of the admitted class. That's the irony , unfairness and the travesty of race-based AA. It does not benefit lower class blacks in the elite colleges, mainly because there is a academic performance gap between the most affluent blacks when compared to the poorest Asian Americans and whites. These poorest Asians and whites outperformed the most affluent blacks in academic achievement, GPAs, testing of all kinds, including the SAT I, SAT II. </p>
<p>Blacks receive the racial preference based solely on race and much less on economic factors or "first to in the family to attend college" as evidenced by the demograghic black students at Harvard, </p>
<p>This quote is from Jay Matthews' column:</p>
<p>washingtonpost.com </p>
<p>"Should Colleges Have Quotas for Asian Americans?"</p>
<p>[He noted the recent estimate by Harvard humanities professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. that two thirds of blacks at Harvard were not descendants of American slaves, but the middle class children of relatively recent immigrants from the Caribbean and Africa. "Why should they deserve admission with lowered standards (relatively speaking) based solely on the color of their skin over a high achieving Asian American living in a Chinatown ghetto or a Black ghetto (many Asians live in Black and Latino ghettos) or a poor white from the slums of NYC?" Chin said.]</p>
<p>My impression is that minorities are all underrepresented at Boston College. I notice that they have resources dedicated to "AHANA" students. AHANA = students of African, Hispanic, Asian and Native American background. <a href="http://www.bc.edu/admission/undergrad/studentsofcolor/%5B/url%5D">http://www.bc.edu/admission/undergrad/studentsofcolor/</a></p>
<p>Since you are interested in the Boston area, I also suggest that you check out Brandeis, which is a top 50 college with good merit aid, too.</p>
<p>Rattle1, I some of these schools like GWU the AFrican American student population is 5%-7%. Would the racial "tip" be given to these specfic students even though they are above 4% or is that just for Asians?</p>