<p>It’s not just the cost of college eduation or just 17-year-olds. I know of families who are living paycheck to paycheck who don’t mind waving plastic and dropping a grand at prom time. Another who always mentions she is chronically underwater borrowed thousands from her 403b to fund a class trip to France so that her HS junior could enjoy a once in a lifetime experience, and AFAIK, the student was never asked to hold a job to help out.</p>
<p>When credit is easily available, there will always be a fraction of the population who, like our government, will have a philosophy of spending today to enjoy the good times or keeping up with the Joneses as long as they can defer the worrying to a later date.</p>
<p>Having said that, I still think a bad strategy is for the government to step in and provide more money, because the most predictable response will be for the universities to jack up the prices and convert it into a higher-ED subsidy rather than poor- or middle-class relief.</p>
<p>I don’t think people budget. They fly by the seat of the pants on all of their finances so why should college costs be any different? I am so budgeted up with fixed expenses at this point in time that I could not repay a PLUS right now. No extra money. So if an extra $5k in college expenses should crop up, it would be a big problem. I would have to get the money somewhere other than in form of a loan, since getting the loan would mean adding the payback into the budget.</p>
<p>We went to a wedding last week which after hours of my planning, scrimping and cutting, we got down to a net cost of about $500. That meant NO sodas or other drinks purchased or food purchased. We needed to come up with $500 to pay for that trip which meant until I got that amount accumulated, no one was to spend a dime on anything that was not in that budget to make it the $500 package. Believe me, it was not easy. </p>
<p>I also now have about $500 on a credit card that needs to be paid at the end of this month from that trip. My envelope has about $170 in it from things that I cut from our budget. We did not buy groceries the week we left, which is what most of that is. My kids threw in some spare change and left over money for more. I expect to be below target on my gas/electric bill which will move the excess over to that credit card payment. I have a friend who is buying a $50 restaurant certificate I have for a favorite place of hers. That’s about half I have been able to accumulate. We’ll do without milk next week which will give us about $12, I can put in the envelope. Yes, it is that slow and tedious to come up with that money when you are strictly budgeted. Really, we should not have gone. Father’s Day will all be done with “shop at home stuff” and creativity. Nothing in the budget for it. I can’t even print out my pictures for the wedding at 19 cents apiece this month until I get that $500 in the pot. When you micro plan like that, you can see how devastating it is to take on even a $5K loan.</p>
<p>I had to say “no” to a number of things in this month already that most people, even kids from low income families would not hesitate to pay. Till that $500 is in the pot, anything discretionary is a “no” and anything in the budget that can be cut, is and goes into the pot. As careful as I am, I’m really a month behind because of all of the wonderful goodies that arose during this year, so I have no margin. Didn’t help that we had some necessary expenses, broken window, hot water heater busted, car repairs, garage door spring broke, plumber needed arose, along with some medical stuff. So here it is half the year not quite gone, and I am behind. Son was going to take Stafford money, may still do so, until he got a research grant and a full time lucrative summer job.</p>
<p>Thought about this thread a lot yesterday (as well as the other cautionary tales on CC.) We got an email that a gentleman who works with our kids will be stepping out of his position immediately. In his message to the kids, he explained that it had nothing to do with them, and that he was sad to be leaving, but that he had accumulated significant student debt during his undergrad years, and that one of the THREE JOBS he was working had offered him a promotion and full time status. He is so awesome & the kids are bummed. </p>
<p>Certainly reinforces the message the kids have gotten in my house about student debt in a real life way, with a person that they care deeply for.</p>
<p>My high school guidance counselor actually told me what I was doing was a good idea. Go to community college-- pay with state scholarship, transfer to in state public. That left my potential debt range at 50-60k. She told me it was a brilliant idea (yes, aware of my financial situation. We specifically discussed those figures.) She applauded my frugality for going to community college first, and said the rest was unavoidable and I’d just have to find a way to make it work by living frugally after graduation. This was when I was sure I was majoring in FILM. After community college the conversation was revisited with my parents. My parents were initially concerned but I told them I was going to go to law school and do some sort of a government job that would get me loan forgiveness for a quarter or so of it, and it would be fine. They said okay. That was the end of it for me. I did take the time to look at the payment breakdown (it’s provided on the back of all the mail I get from the bank, and I calculated it myself to double check), but as I explained, I didn’t realize how much all the little bills would add up to in the end-- or that I wasn’t really going to go to law school right away. The ONLY discouragement I ever got about all this was, “I don’t know about this… are you sure?”</p>
<p>Sometimes it is worth the price tag. I know some families where things were just so dysfunctional that it was really worthwhile for the kids to get away from the mess. In a way, that is the situation with my friend’s D. Marriage is falling apart, losing their house, lost their business, losing their minds. I can see why putting off the college cost for later and just taking the escape is an attractive option. I blame the GC in this case for not showing them some safety options that would have been a lot cheaper, though not ideal in terms of academic goals, given the circumstances. If she had just tucked a couple of those options in her list, it would have given her more breathing room now and in the future when those loans are going to become due.</p>
<p>It’s often not a choice just between comm college and a top level, top priced school which is too often the way it is depicted. None of my kids even considered the comm college route. There were and are many 4 year options for them here, and for most kids.</p>
<p>Re: post # 362 - I am truly impressed. cpt, you are amazing.
It really hits home with the kids that when you spend on one area, you are taking away from something else.</p>
<p>Bonnie, I need to do this for it to hit home to ME. Yep, ME. I’m not bragging in that post. That is what it takes for me to understand how much $100, $200, $500, $5000 is for our family. We found ourselves in so much debt and with no extra money some years ago, despite a high family income and what most would consider a non extravagent life style. We just could not afford it. Had to shut everything down except the absolute must pays, and then work the extras, and, yes, that even included basic food, out of what was left. Showed us how we were just hemorrhaging money. We lived on an austerity regiment for 4 years with my gremlins throwing every discouraging situation at us that required money. It seemed like every dime I saved, a dollar had to be spent. But in time, the frugality won out. We are not quite in such dire straits now, but it takes very little to start falling behind again. With all of our tuitions, a large house payment and a terrible economic climate, we have to be careful. Yet, there are experiences and events we don’t want to miss. It means really planning and then recouping the expenditures from other places. A hard lesson still in the learning.</p>
<p>*Many parents attend incoming freshmen orientation meetings at high schools. That is the time to educate parents about upcoming college costs using current prices and inflation projections.</p>
<p>I mentioned in another thread that while some parents understand that tuition has gone up since they were in college, they don’t realize how much it’s gone up, and many have no idea that Room and Board can add another $10k+ to the costs. My neighbor was shocked that room and board wasn’t just a couple of thousand. He just assumed about a thousand for the dorm and about a thousand for food. LOL *</p>
<p>^^ How does anyone think that their child think that they will be fed on less than $25-30 per week for 19 meals? Even assuming $30 per week, that would come to 1.58 per meal! Did this person ever sit down with an adding machine?</p>
<p>That’s just it. They haven’t “done the math.” But, should that really surprise us? How many talk about borrowing $80k - 120k and have never looked at what those payments will look like.</p>
<p>Maybe he was thinking that his family spends about $5k per year on groceries (not counting cleaning supplies/toiletries), and so he thought about $1k to feed one kid for 9 months.</p>
<p>My son told me that at the end of the semester, end of the school year, lots of students go begging for food from those who have meal $s left or who are cooking meals in their kitchens. Many are from affluent families. What tends to happen is that kids want the flexibility of college bucks rather than meal dollars because of the “use them or lose them” rule of the meal plans, and other restrictions. The problem is that college bucks can be used for a lot of things other than food, and it is easy to run out of them before the end of the year. Also meals are sometimes cheaper and have more of the all you can eat rule under the meal plans whereas buying meals from local taco joints or burger palaces along with a la carte sandwiches and stuff is going to run you a lot more money. No question about it. The flexibility and choice does have its drawbacks. And the budget is blown for the year, so the kids are stuck with no food, no money cuz they have spent all that was allocated.</p>
<p>When I went to college, we all ate at the cafeteria because it was the only game in town. There was a late night snack bar and a Rathskellar open at night, but for food, there really wasn’t anything else on campus. Even off campus, there were few nearby choices. So we ate in the cafeteria, complained about the food, stole what was portable to eat in our rooms later, had to watch the cafeteria schedule, and that was where we all hung out for our meals. </p>
<p>Now 35 years later, only freshmen seem to eat at the cafeteria. Even second term freshmen rankle at the meal plan and want the lowest one required by the college. There are a half dozen at least, eateries on campus and there is a ring of every fast food restaurant and every kind of cuisine around the campus that take college bucks, or whatever they call those things. You can even use them to get a taxi to the airport, for dry cleaning, a haircut,…you name it. But at a cost. If you give your kid the equivalent of a full meal plan in those versatile bucks, it may well not be enough bucks to last the kid through the term, most certainly if he is using them on other things. </p>
<p>I bought a meal plan of a given number of meals in the all you can eat cafeteria for my son along with some college bucks despite his insistance that the meal plan “rips us off”. At the end of the year, he was eating in the cafeteria, having long spent his college bucks, and was not thrilled that I bought more Dining Dollars for him rather than the more versatile college bucks, but he did have a place to eat right to the end. And he did eat at the cafeteria a lot; the cafeteria ladies alll knew him, as I found out when we grabbed a meal there when we visited. Now I am hearing the same song from our third one about the wicked cafeteria cheating the poor students and naive parents and that the college bucks are a better deal. Third time around, sigh.</p>
<p>I was shocked at the room and board numbers here in the NE. That is why my son is considering commuting. The school he is eyeing even offers about $6K off tuition if a student commutes which would make the very expensive tuition affordable for us. We could include him in our cost of living easily, and he has enough to cover his expenses including books and transportation. That would be his best deal in terms of a private, expensive college. </p>
<p>The southern schools are veritable bargains in room and board prices.</p>
<p>In 2005, one of my friends sent her son to a school that only offered ala carte meals. His dining dollars were used up way before the end of the semester. She had to add $500/semester to the college bill so her son had enough to eat. She told me that most of the males ran out of money, but some of the females still had money on their cards at the end.</p>
<p>Ha, ha. Men have been circling the kitchens of females from the beginning of time. It is typical that girls have more of the money left than the guys. My jocks eat three squares and some. I remember that a muffin and tea sufficed for breakfast for me, and if I had one regular sized meal, at lunch OR dinner, it would do me just fine. But not for my boys. That’s why it drives me nuts to hear them talk about how the all you can eat cafeteria is not a bargain for them. The one in college has gotten a college owned apartment for next year, and of course wants NO dining dollars, all cash and college bucks and he is going to save us, oh, so much money cooking for himself. Ha. Like I believe that one.</p>
No one is forcing anyone to attend pricy colleges. I wanted to go to a private school - I worked hard, got a scholarship, and attend NYU for $4k/year. If I didn’t get a scholarship I would’ve gone to CUNY for $2k/year.
In countries like Sweden, Denmark, etc, most people don’t attend college at all - the Govt controls universities and people are placed into “tracks” at an early age - the Govt decides if you go into a “vocational track” (plumbing, carpentry, electric work, etc) and only the elite students with highest test scores place into the university track. College might be free there, but the average Joe sure doesn’t get to go.</p>
<p>In other nations students are required to do 1-3 years in the military in exchance for education. There’s no such thing as a free lunch anywhere. Their taxes are a lot higher than ours to funds universities, too.</p>
<p>While the responsibility for personal debt clearly rests with the borrower, it is absurd that the cost of an education at the best schools is so high that it is not affordable by most students and their families. When explaining how the cost should be covered, they count on loans being taken out (in addition to savings and earnings from present income).</p>
<p>^^ the point being made is that nobody is forcing anyone to buy a Beamer or a Lexus, and you can go from point A to B in a car that costs a fraction. In relative terms, the cost of a high end car can be as absurd for those who can’t afford it.</p>
<p>One difference is that the government isn’t funding the Lexus dealers. Another is that I can get from here to there in either a Nissan or BMW no question. But there is a question regarding the value of an education from X State U vs. Ivy U.</p>
<p>^ I agree, but aren’t the Ivies need-blind and provide good need-based financial aid? I think people whose families make under $60k/year don’t pay tuition or something?</p>
<p>But I guess the people who end up screwed are the middle-class Americans who make over $60k but still don’t have the means to afford Harvard. OTOH, anyone smart enough to get into Harvard will be accepted to other good private colleges on merit scholarships.</p>
<p>I was accepted to 2 ivy league schools; both gave me good financial aid, but I turned them down for a strong private college (not ivy) that gave me an excellent merit scholarship. And in the long-run, I don’t think I’m worse off for this. For those insisting that in other countries higher education is free, realize that the govt controls who attends and only the top 15%-20% or so with highest test scores qualify for it. I’ve never heard of a country where the majority of students attend university and the whole system is free - maybe I’m being ignorant here?</p>
<p>@MWestMom: “One difference is that the government isn’t funding the Lexus dealers.”
----True, but they are funding Cadillacs and Hummers.</p>
<p>@springreen: “In countries like Sweden, Denmark, etc, most people don’t attend college at all - the Govt controls universities and people are placed into “tracks” at an early age - the Govt decides if you go into a “vocational track” (plumbing, carpentry, electric work, etc) and only the elite students with highest test scores place into the university track. College might be free there, but the average Joe sure doesn’t get to go.”</p>
<p>-----Excellent point. Can you imagine the outcry if the U.S. government tried to implement a similar tracking system in this country? It would completely change what it means to be an American, and would destroy the foundation of the American dream----that if you work hard and get a good education your future is yours to determine. In spite of the hard times we are going through right now I’d like to think that we can keep that dream alive for this generation of young people and for those to follow.</p>
<p>sort of off topic, but there seems to be a misconception that the majority of americans attend college. not true. only around 20% of americans have a college degree. we need more people to be college educated, not fewer. and, no, it doesn’t have to come with an outrageously expensive price tag. </p>
<p>cptofthehouse: more people identify with your situation than u may imagine. i found your comments in this thread very refreshing.</p>