<p>On a previous thread there was a mention of GPA's getting refigured for the med school application process....such as that A+'s count as 4.0 and A-'s count as 3.7. </p>
<p>Who/what institution does this re-figuring?</p>
<p>I'm posting the below questions for a friend</p>
<p>If a student takes a college level class as a high school student, does that grade figure in to this calculation just as any other college class would. I am guessing the answer is yes, but just making sure so I can pass on the right answer.</p>
<p>And, if the student got a B in - say -Cal I at a college (while in high school), would it be best if she took Cal II and Stats (and got A's) to help her "math" grades look better.</p>
<p>Not necessary. Shadowing is one of those checklist items that you would have to be incredibly pathetic to fake. Medical schools won’t bother checking up on it.</p>
<p>Yeah, not necessary to officially document it, but obviousy a good idea for her to keep track of them. What worked for me was to write the number of hours I shadowed next to where I wrote “Shadow Dr blahblah” in my planner because then all I did was add up the hours.</p>
<p>Seems like a good ballpark is 100, probably ranging from 60-120 for most applicants. If she ends up getting considerably more, encourage her to look for depth rather than breadth in the hours past the (practically requisite) hundred or so. That way, shell likely have some experiences to write about in personal statements and essays and the doc(s) she shadowed will know her well enough to write a great letter.</p>
<p>2 of my letters came from the docs I shadowed–each for about 200h over about 2 years. I am pretty certain these were two of my stronger letters and carried lots of weight at my school’s med school because the docs I shadowed are well known to my med school.</p>
<p>Q. Is it a good idea to shadow for more than one TYPE of doctor (and shadow a decent number of hours for each one)? For instance, my son will be shadowing an oncologist, a family practitioner, an orthopedic surgeon, and a dematologist.</p>
<p>Q. Also…is it ok if two of the doctors are OD’s? Would that look ok for MD schools? </p>
<p>Q. The family practioner also has a PA in her office, so some of the shadowing may be with the PA. Is that ok?</p>
<p>Q: Would it be foolish to have a main extracurricular on your app that is not related to health care/medicine?</p>
<p>Q: After being on here a long time, I realize that the school really doesn’t matter unless you go to a top 10 or whatever it is. But, what if the school is a ‘Tier 2’ (according to USN). Basically, it doesn’t crack the top 200 US schools (non-LAC). Would you have to be a superstar applicant from such a school to have a crack at top med schools? (ie. no room for a fault in the app to have a short)</p>
<p>Q: How bad is it if the “direct patient contact” is somewhat lacking (not sufficient in someone’s words)l? Because of research and musical commitment, DS has shadowed a doctor, but may not have “enough” hours. </p>
<p>D1’s BF attended a Tier 2 school (state flagship), had a excellent GPA (3.9–double major in biochem and psych), excellent MCAT (38, with a 40 on retake which he didn’t send to schools), strong research experience and very strong LORs (“best biochem student I’ve had in my career”), but had only a very few medically-related ECs (a few hours shadowing, limited community volunteering). He was accepted into a Top 20 medical school twice. (Same school, two different years. He turned them down the first time and the school accepted him again the next year when he reapplied.)</p>
<p>So I would say it’s possible to get accepted into a Top 20 med school even with a minor blemish on your record. But everything else would have to be tip-top.</p>
<p>^D. got accepted to 2 top 20 from state school (not flagship) and lower than 38 MCAT. She has everything else, I do not count EC’s and LOR’s since everybody has them. She was not double major either, but she had a minor. I have no idea about tier of her school.</p>
<p>Q: After being on here a long time, I realize that the school really doesn’t matter unless you go to a top 10 or whatever it is. But, **what if the school is a ‘Tier 2’ (according to USN). Basically, it doesn’t crack the top 200 US schools (non-LAC). **Would you have to be a superstar applicant from such a school to have a crack at top med schools? (ie. no room for a fault in the app to have a short) </p>
<p>Are you asking about a school that comes under the newly extended Tier 2 ranking from USNews? USNews seems to be counting everything from #51 thru about #250 as Tier 2. </p>
<p>I would think it would depend on the school and it’s strength of science and math courses. There is a school by me that is not highly ranked, but does well preparing pre-med students since it is strong in math and sciences. (UAB…yes, the one with the crazy bio prof that shot her colleagues when she didn’t get tenure). Because of the “new USNews” ranking system, it’s now a Tier 2, even though it’s number rank would be Tier 3 under the previous system.</p>
<p>As far as I can tell, some breadth is definitely necessary. I shadowed an otorhinolaryngologist, an orthopaedic surgeon, and a pulmonologist (maybe, 60 hours total for the 3) in addition to the two that I did the most shadowing with–surgical oncologist and hematologist/oncologist. Haven’t run into any trouble with my plan, except that one school asked me why I didn’t shadow any primary care docs. I had a nice answer (basically, that I stuck with oncology because I wanted to get to know the patients and the practice rather than experiment with lots of specialties–would leave that to M3 rotations) and was accepted to that school.</p>
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<p>I assume you mean doctors of osteopathy here (which they call DOs, not ODs [OD=optometrist]). I can’t imagine that would be a problem, and should your son decide to apply to DO schools, having shadowed some DOs would be beneficial. My friend who is applying to both MD and DO programs has shadowed both MDs and DOs and has had great interviews at schools for both programs. The DO she’s shadowed is primary care.</p>
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<p>Again, just basing this off the experience of me and my friends (all applying right now with similar numbers stats). The ones with the least direct patient contact have had the hardest time winning interviews. Some have had none at all and are starting to look at other options for next year. Seems like direct patient contact really illustrates to adcoms that the applicant has some notion of what he or she is getting themselves into and knows a little bit about the medical profession. Without the applicant having that knowledge, how can a med school know for sure that investing time/energy/resources into that applicant (future med student, perhaps) will be worthwhile (and that the applicant will really commit to medicine)? Knowing what I know now about how important the “soft” aspects of the application are, I would seriously hesitate to apply with minimal patient contact experience. The application process is grueling, and I don’t know how applicants with (what could be construed as) red flags (ie: limited patient contact) get through all the uncertainty!</p>
<p>Another thing to keep in mind is that almost all students applying to medical school have intense time commitments to other things–research, jobs, leadership positions, sports, instruments, families, etc–and the mark of many successful premeds (=future doctors) is being able to very efficiently manage their time so that they have the opportunity to do things like shadow, volunteer, have direct patient contact, etc. Your kiddo will have a hard time selling the idea of “I didn’t do that because I was too busy with thus and such” even if he’s doing them at a very high level. I’ve run into kids who had a stint in the MLB, studied piano at Julliard, and know of one who started a biochem research company while preparing for medical school–and believe it or not, they found time for doing all the other “things” which make applicants exceptionally strong ones!</p>
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<p>I wouldn’t say it’s comparable to shadowing MD/DO or should replace it, but I would imagine that shadowing PAs or NPs or other health professions would be a good idea just because. It will expose your kiddo to other fields of medicine and perhaps spark new interests too. I’m really interested in service, so I started working with a social worker at an adoption agency last fall, and let me tell you how easy it is for me to answer the question “If you’re so into service and working with others, why not a different profession like…social work?” as a result of that work. So knowing something about the day to day practice of PAs could be nice reassurance that your kid wants to be an MD, or provide some inspiration to explore other paths. But in terms of shadowing a PA to meet (what really should be) requirements for admissions to MD schools…I’d shadow MDs, just to be safe.</p>
<p>It’s something like 198 on USNews. It used to be tier 3 under the older rankings as well. </p>
<p>How do you find out if a school’s sciences are strong if it’s that lowly ranked? Are there subject-specific rankings? I really don’t know how this school’s sciences are ranked. </p>
<p>Also, does double majoring matter? I was planning on a minor for sure anyways, but I read on here before that med schools don’t care if you double majored but WayOutWestMom and MiamaDAP made it seem like they give it consideration. Does this reflect in LORs or do they actually care?</p>
<p>Double major because you’re interested, not to get an edge–an extra major won’t provide that. But you will be able to meet lots of profs (who may become recommenders), take classes that interest you (thus you will probably get better grades), and introduce you to a whole other group of students (the ones in your second major). Keep in mind it’s a lot of work though, and you need to have ample time available throughout college to work on things like volunteering, research, extracurriculars, leadership, etc. If a second major means you won’t have time for those things, I personally would avoid a second major in favor of doing my one major well and also having time to build the rest of my experiences too.</p>
<p>kristin,
"take classes that interest you (thus you will probably get better grades),
-opposite happened to my D. She still would not have it other way. Singing with music majors was not working in her favor GPA-wise (with “lower” grade of “A-” in several of them), but she has developed a nice voice (from strangers’ comments who overheard her singing).
I still say , pursue what you love. Music has provided great R&R and made it easier to focus on science from “fresh” prospective. Overall, Music Minor was easy and aside from singing classes, no problem for GPA, very enjoyable, with lots of new experiences in addition to playing instrument. I bet pursuing any area of personal interest will be enjoyable.</p>
<p>*take classes that interest you (thus you will probably get better grades),
-opposite happened to my D. She still would not have it other way. Singing with music majors was not working in her favor GPA-wise (with “lower” grade of “A-” in several of them), but she has developed a nice voice (from strangers’ comments who overheard her singing).
*</p>
<p>Q. So, then, does this suggest that if you’re taking a class just for fun, maybe you should take it credit/NC so it doesn’t affect GPA (if possible). Or, is that a big med school “no no” - when the class is just an extra class…like painting or singing or whatever?</p>
