<p>Thanks for the feedback. It’s probably too early (he’s a freshman) for formal visits, but I want him to start thinking about it and talking to others who had to make those decisions.</p>
<p>@khatlestad,
one of my sons sounds a lot like your son. My son is currently a sophomore earning a BM and taking as many liberal arts courses as he can. He is very, very happy. Since he didn’t want to give up his more “academic” interests to study music, he only applied to colleges that offered a broad academic curriculum as well as a quality music program.</p>
<p>You asked, specifically, about faring in a “conservatory setting.” I don’t know how literally you meant that. My son did apply to three schools with literal “conservatories” – Oberlin, Lawrence, and Rice, and he got in with half-to-full-tuition scholarships to all 3. But he chose to go elsewhere, primarily for financial reasons – also a full-tuition scholarship with a cheaper overall cost of attendance. He does NOT attend a conservatory – “just” a “school of music” within a liberal arts college.</p>
<p>He has found that the schedule and course load required of a music major can keep him quite busy – aural skills, theory, music history, and piano, on top of their other music requirements, do keep them quite busy. But he has REALLY enjoyed his liberal arts core curriculum, particularly the courses he takes through the honors program – they’re smaller and typically more engaging. He has had numerous job opportunities, in the form of gigs and part-time work that fit perfectly with his student schedule, and the mandatory school of music ensembles (which he also enjoys, btw) keep him very busy. Add to that all the other opportunities these kids have in college – study abroad, participating in each other’s recitals and juries, attending other school of the arts performances, etc – and, well, my son (at least) is very happy and very busy and hasn’t ever felt bored or unchallenged.</p>
<p>Being a music major is inherently very busy, imo. I THINK your son will find that to be the case. If he is certain that he wants to take courses outside of music, it would seem wise to apply only to schools that offer such opportunities to a rather significant degree.</p>
<p>Good luck to you and your son! :)</p>
<p>SimpleLife - my memory is that your son was planning to pursue a double degree program - did he end up changing his mind? If so, that might be an interesting addition to this discussion.</p>
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<p>Doing “nothing but music” will keep him plentifully busy. Music majors in college have tons of one credit courses that require hours of class time and preparation. Plus he will have his own practice schedule to do. He’ll be very busy.</p>
<p>DS went to BU and got a BM in performance. Boston University has a rigorous core course requirement that he had to fulfill. Does Indiana have a core course requirement for its music majors? Many universities do.</p>
<p>I will say, our son was always busy and sufficiently “challenged” during his BM program. He often wished for more hours in the day.</p>
<p>^Ditto.</p>
<p>@SpiritManager: Good memory! 
You’re right. My son wanted to pursue a double degree. He did not change his mind – yet. But he probably will, he’s been saying recently. This is primarily for one reason: he has found so many different subjects that he wants to explore, that he’s thinking of just dabbling in all the areas he likes instead of cramming in all the required courses for a single, second degree.</p>
<p>For instance, history is probably his second biggest interest, next to music. He has been taking 17-18 hours per semester for his first two years, so he could feasibly work in more history courses during the next two years and over the summers. But he’s learned that he also loves languages, and human rights, and what his school calls “wellness.” Now he wants to take 3 courses of each of 3 different languages! That’s 36 credit hours! It has come down to a choice – dabble a little in all the different things he likes, or concentrate in one area (classics, medieval history, history in general?) and get a second degree in that one area. The dabbling has become much more appealing to him – and I’m inclined to agree. There’s really only one time in our lives that most of us have the luxury to do that – in college. So, he will probably continue to take just as many credit hours as he would with a double degree (he plans on taking 2 summer school courses each year as well), but he thinks it will just be a mixed bag of various things he loves. I’m sometimes envious! What fun.</p>
<p>This does somewhat tie into your post, khatlestad. I really don’t think your son will be bored or run out of things to do – particularly if he chooses a school that has a wide variety of course offerings and/or a good core curriculum. If he’s thinking things are too easy for him, he can always add more!</p>
<p>DD is at Rice. The BM is very demanding but she also enjoys the variety and challenges in the required other distribution classes. She feels she gets the best of both worlds there. High caliber music and academics.</p>
<p>She also enjoys the university environment and having non-musi friends and interests. There are a number of universities like that. You don’t really have to give up one for the other. And you don’t have to do dual degree either to enjoy the additional courses.</p>
<p>SimpleLife - Was your son on a 5 year double degree track and now plans to be done in four? My son has five years to get everything done and it’s rather leisurely really - and his merit/financial aid was explicitly for the entire five years. He could take a slightly heavier load than he does (by half a class only) - basically he’s taking two music classes and two academic classes each semester, and then ensemble and/or conducting for credit. He has the time to compose, and the time to run his independent new music ensemble - which is not for credit and is wildly time consuming! And, btw. his interests and your sons are similar - he’s getting his 2nd degree in Classics. He’s taking Ancient Greek this year, and is considering a 3rd ancient language (Sanskrit.)</p>
<p>I don’t know how CambridgeMom’s son is handling taking 8 courses each semester! It would not have worked for my son who needs unstructured time for composing/rehearsing/playing music.</p>
<p>^Cool, SpiritManager! Our son’s interests are REALLY similar! In his case, he was trying to do everything in four years, plus four summers (including the summer after his fourth year). He does take 8-11 classes per semester. You know how some of those music classes are – they meet for the normal amount of class time and require outside work and/or practice, but they’re only worth 1 or 2 credit hours! So, yes, his 17-18 hours per semester are made up of 8-11 classes per semester. But he doesn’t do any composing. My son would never say it’s “leisurely,” lol! He wasn’t offered the opportunity to take 5 years on his scholarships. That is fantastic for your son! Lucky duck!</p>
<p>How very nice that he has an independent new music ensemble! There are so many ways for these kids to get involved, all while doing something they love.</p>
<p>That’s the kind of thing I mean when I say that it’s unlikely OP’s son would find life as a music major boring or unchallenging – though I don’t blame her/him for asking. I was there 2 years ago. As a non-music major myself, I didn’t know what my son could expect!</p>
<p>For the record, there are numerous accounts of musicians who got into grad school for performance but did their undergrad in entirely non-related disciplines. It’s really all up to the individual and how much work they put in. You can train to be a performer and not be enrolled in a performing degree, although the opportunities afforded to one in a performance-oriented degree are of course innumerable.</p>
<p>I am also of the mind that the best musicians are well-rounded people who fulfill their minds and hearts with a variety of passions. Conservatory training is great, but for many, the opportunity to sample outside of their major is helpful and rewarding in the extreme. A BM is one of THE most work-intensive things you can undertake, so no worries there at any rate…</p>
<p>Yes, a music double degree program can be intensely challenging but it is certainly not impossible. I just collaborated with a piano BM at my school who is also majoring in civil engineering.
If your son ends up going the double degree route, may I add as well that it will be essential for him to seriously analyze how he practices. He must learn to do it efficiently, if he has not already…in order to avoid wasting mindless hours in the practice room which could be spent studying for other classes, and to optimize his growth.</p>
<p>One more thing…freshman in HS is not too early. I met and played for some professors at my top choice school as a freshman and visited with them again about a year later. The advice they offered was priceless and they have had a chance to see me return stronger and demonstrate my persistance and desire to study under them.
A nice rapport has been established and I thoroughly intend to attend the grad school there once I graduate from my current university.
Good luck!</p>
<p>“I met and played for some professors at my top choice school as a freshman and visited with them again about a year later. The advice they offered was priceless …”</p>
<p>Thanks. I think I will try to set up some visits this summer (music and science). For my son, it’s more than an interest in other subjects or being well-rounded. He has the ability to achieve a top level in any math/science field. He loves both science and music. The real issue is how to help him decide where he wants to be in 20 years. He has seen a number of great musicians head off to science or math in college, but none who have chosen music. It seems that if you are good in math and science, few choose the music path. That’s why a visit to Melvin Chen sounds like it would be very good for him.</p>
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<p>Oh. I thought this ^ was the real issue.</p>
<p>Well, if the real issue is where does he want to be in 20 years … you’re right … that’s a different issue.</p>
<p>Are you saying HE’s undecided about whether to major in music or whether to major in math/science? Or are you saying that he wants to major in music, but you’re worried that he’s throwing away so much math/science potential? Which one of you is uncomfortable with the music major – you, him, or both of you? (FWIW, lots of people share your concerns when their kids decide to major in music. It’s a little scary. 
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<p>Pianoparent, Oberlin and Bard both have dual degree programs; Bard’s is required for music majors, Oberlin’s is not. And your son will be able to attend many universities/colleges where a BM can be augmented by classes in other subjects, or a BA can be accompanied by many musical activities and study. Or, once he is a couple of years older, he may be drawn to a conservatory.</p>
<p>I think it is a little early, honestly, to be worrying about this. Two of my kids are in the performing arts, in college, and things can change a lot in the high school years. I would say step back a little, let your child develop naturally, and continue to provide opportunities for all options, as you can afford. I would not even talk about college options at this point, let alone career paths. But maybe that is just me.</p>
<p>One small point, that others have also covered, and that is that getting a BM, or a BA in music, is quite rigorous and time-consuming. At Harvard, the first year music history class is reputed to be every bit as difficult as pre-med bio.</p>
<p>One option would be for your kid to get a broad liberal-arts BA with a music major, then an MFA/DFA in performance if that continued to interest him. My husband started out in a piano major in a conservatory, but found it intellectually too narrow. After a year he transferred to Cornell and switched to a BA in music. He ended up with a double major in music and philosophy, and graduate degrees in both fields, but not with a performance emphasis; he’s now a professor of music theory. However, several of his friends went to Illinois and Yale from Cornell in piano performance, and have had successful careers.</p>
<p>Pianoparent, I was getting your story mixed up with the OP’s story. I was thinking yours was the son that was planning on majoring in viola performance. But yours is the son who is still a high school freshman! </p>
<p>Yeah … way too early to be worrying about all of this. Wait a few years. Then you and he will have a better sense of what it is he wants to do.</p>
<p>SimpleLife is correct. It is most likely too early to worry a lot.</p>
<p>But at the same time, you are fortunate to have even the slightest clue about what your student may want to study in college or do for a living. Thats one of the advantages about having a musical child. When I was a high school freshman, or even a college freshman, I had no clue at all.</p>
<p>One of my biggest regrets is that I didn’t pick up on my sons interest in music until he was in the 10th grade, and even then I didn’t take it that serously. Now he is a high school senior and trying to make up for years of preparation that he didn’t get because I wasn’t more aware that he might consider it as a profession. For some reason I always assumed that he would be more interested in a field involving engineering.</p>
<p>When he was in the 10th grade, before he got his drivers license I would take him to school in the mornings, and that was about our only opportunity to discuss things like “what do you want to be when you grow up”. One day I jokingly said “you seem to like music, maybe you should consider that”. I really expected him to reject that idea the same way he rejected every other thing I suggested. He didn’t, and I was shocked. He said “ya, I was thinking about that”. I felt like I had hit a home run in our early morning discussion sessions - for the first time ever.</p>
<p>I really should have saw it coming, years earlier. Once when he was very young he was playing on my mother in laws piano, she screamed at him to “get off the piano”, he has disliked her ever since for it. Then later, when he entered the 6th grade, he decided on his own that he was going to take string orchistra in school and chose the violin. I just thought “whatever”. I really didn’t expect him to take it seriously. When he got his first (rented) violin, I was amazed to watch the care and respect for the instrument when he took it out of the case for the first time. It was like he just automatically understood that a musical instrument couldn’t be treated like a “toy”. He sat first chair for his first year in string orchistra, and did a solo and a trio at his first school concert. All but one of those students who played a solo or in a special small ensemble at that concert are still highly envolved with music. I just didn’t understand the significance of it.</p>
<p>His next two years in the middle school orchistra he seemed to completly loose interest in it due to a VERY bad instructor. He had talked about dropping out of orchistra class, so I assumed that his interest in music had wained. Then he comes home one day and announces that he needs a pile of money to go on a band trip. I was like “what, you don’t play a band instrument”, he explained that they needed someone to hold up one end of the banner at a competition in orlando that the 8th grade band goes to every year. When he got back from the band trip, he was all about band. They had won the jr. high band competition where they competed against jr high bands from all over the country. He immediately requested to start taking trumpet lessons, I got in touch with the band director (who was very discouraging - he really didn’t want a student in marching band who couldn’t already play a marching band instrument). He practiced all summer but ended up being a “rotator” in the marching band because of his lack of trumpet experiance. By the time that region band auditions came up, his band director told me that he thought that my son had a chance of making region band, again, I was kind of shocked. He had less than 6 months of trumpet experiance and would be competing against people with as much as 4 years of experiance. He ended up not making region band that year, so I assumed that his band director was just blowing smoke up my you-know-what. Later that same year his band director told me that he had caught up to the best 9th grade band students and had surpassed many of them. Again, I really didn’t think anything about it.</p>
<p>It was the next year that I suggested that he consider music as a career. That year he did make region band, the next year he made Senior region band and was invited to audition for allstate band (didn’t make it), then this year he did make allstate band. During his 11th grade year he decided that he would audition for a top level drum corps, I mentioned this to his band director, his band director said “I guess you are wanting me to talk him out of it”, he then further said “don’t worry, he want make it, it’s mostly college music majors in that drum corps”. But somehow he did end up “making it”, although he was only an alternate.</p>
<p>Anyhow, sorry for the long tale, but I now regret that I didn’t encourage him more when he was younger and that I never got him into any type of summer music program and wasn’t more encouraging when he was younger. </p>
<p>Now we are faced with him having to compete for very few college music slots, when he has only a fraction of the formal music training that many of the people that he is competing with have. It was half way though his first college audition that reality really set in with me - when I found out that the college would only be accepting 4 trumpet students. I was a business major in college and there were hundreds if not thousands of business majors at my college. I never really understood just how competitive or intense that music was at the college entrance level.</p>
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<p>I am a clarinetist at Yale doing chemistry or math (though I listed myself as chemical engineering on the acceptance thread). If you’re thinking of Clarimom’s son, he is a clarinetist here doing computer science. Also, Terrence C is a vocalist at Yale, not at Harvard :)</p>
<p>That said, Yale’s music is incredible. There is certainly no shortage of talent. YSO is extremely competitive; I’d say everyone in the orchestra could have gotten into at least a decent conservatory. There are several musicians in the group who were accepted to some of the top programs and some who even transferred to Yale after studying at Juilliard or Eastman for a year. I got into Bienen School of Music at Northwestern and did not make it into the orchestra; Clarimom’s son, who is a good friend of mine, got the spot and you can look up his impressive acceptances on the thread from last year. Talent in other aspects of music is also prevalent, i.e. in conducting. One conductor graduating this year was top in Curtis grad school auditions, or so I’ve heard. There are several popular student-run orchestras and YSO often has students conduct pieces or run a rehearsal once in a while so those opportunities are plentiful.</p>
<p>Lessons are great. Studying with actual Yale School of Music faculty is not as uncommon as people think. At least for violinists, I think everyone in YSO taking lessons is taking them with a SOM faculty member in an actual studio-type setting. Much less common for an instrument like clarinet, though Clarimom’s son is incredibly talented and Professor David Shifrin did accept him into his studio. I personally am studying with a graduate student, but he is constantly featured on the SOM website for winning national competitions here and there and he is a great teacher.</p>
<p>Chamber music is not uncommon. There’s a pretty popular chamber music class, and students around campus are eager to be in a group. I formed a wind quintet within the first couple weeks of school, and we rehearse regularly and performed in a student-organized chamber music concert during first semester.</p>
<p>Most importantly, there is no shortage of passion for music at Yale. Yale is a fairly artsy school in terms of extracurriculars. Concerts are happening around campus all the time, and everyone is extremely supportive; musicians and their friends attend each others’ concerts regularly. There is no lack of music geekiness; my friends and I are constantly talking about music and running around campus singing symphonies and going to the amazing music library to check out recordings, pieces, etc.</p>
<p>Even though there’s no music performance degree offered, Yale musicians still go on to professional music careers. For instance, a clarinetist in the LA Phil graduated from Yale with a BA in Russian Literature. There are several others playing in NY Phil, SF Symphony, etc. etc. A lot of conductors and composers as well.</p>
<p>All these musicians are also very multi-dimensional in their talents and interests; i.e. musicians who are International Chemistry Olympiad medalists, national computer science competition winners, photographers, electro-musicians, etc. (no exaggeration, those are all real people I know here). All in all, I couldn’t have made a better choice. My love for Yale is never-ending so sorry for the long post :)</p>
<p>YeloPen, I can’t remember everything. ;)</p>
<p>I’m not worried about it, but I don’t think it’s too soon to start getting him some feedback from others who have dealt with the issue. My son started taking formal piano lessons when he was 6 and played in his first piano competition at 7. He loves music and seems destined to have a career in music. However, like many other musicians, he loves and is very good at math and science. In our case, I’m trying to give him a chance to see what a career in science is all about. Then again, he is planning to go back to Interlochen again this summer, not to a science camp.</p>
<p>Perhaps it will come down to a dual degree or some variation. There is an older organist/choral director in our town who is pushing Yale to him (she got her degree there in music). And Melvin Chen did his undergraduate work there in Physics and Chemistry. At the very least, I would like him to find out what can be done at different colleges/conservatories. Perhaps he will know enough to take one path or the other before college, but I don’t want him to think that he must do that. Everyone tells me that high school flies by so maybe that’s why I seem rushed.</p>
<p>YeloPen’s own humility is appealing, and I am so glad he loves Yale. However, I just want to interject that it is not necessary to have such impressive accomplishments (music performance plus Science Olympiad’s, etc.) to study happily and productively in a high quality environment.</p>
<p>Some students love an intense, competitive atmosphere of high achievers, who can boast amazing accomplishments in different disciplines. Some like a more quiet depth within one, whether music or science. Some students come to prefer an environment that is less competitive, more funky and cooperative, if you will.</p>
<p>Ultimately, when it comes time to make these choices, our kids tend to be old enough to make them, with a little support and even guidance at times.</p>
<p>I just don’t want anyone to think that their child has to measure up to these superlatives at a place like Yale, to do well…</p>
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<p>Sorry, I hope that’s not how I came across, I only meant to suggest that the musicians at Yale also make for a great overall experience considering their abilities in other areas. Also, Yale is not a competitive environment despite its students being very high-achieving; most people are very humble and cooperative.</p>