Starting around post #84 of How do you know how rigorous a college (overall or in a specific subject / major) is? - #84 by beebee3 is mention of small departments offering some courses infrequently, so that a student expecting a course present in the catalog to be available may not actually have the opportunity to take it.
How often is this an issue, either when considering colleges to attend, or being disappointed in the lack of opportunity to take such courses once enrolled in college?
In the random sample of the collegekids direct experiences, for required courses for a major, not at all. In one case (at the smallest of the unis that we have had kids attend) there was a not mandatory, but still significant course whose prof had left and there was nobody to cover (at least , not to an adequate level). The college ended up having a prof from a near-ish by college come down 2x / week for the semester to cover it (ended up such a hit with the students that they tried to hire the prof away from their home college!).
On the other hand, most of the collegekids- at whatever size university- have had the experience that a particular course is not available when they wanted to take it (or ever), usually b/c the prof who taught it it has left or is on sabbatical.
I think that this is most likely to be an issue when a student starts at a higher-than usual level in a subject with a relatively small number of majors in it, with not very many profs in the dept, and at a relatively small school.
Sometimes it isnât even that the department is small, but that a particular class even within a larger department is not given often.
My D experienced a bit of this at her LAC in different forms:
âOne particular class she wanted to take was cancelled and was never re-offered â she was initially disappointed but replaced it with a class she ended up loving so it worked out fine.
âA couple of other classes she learned were given periodically (ex. every other semester or something along those lines) so when she saw them offered in the course catalogue she enrolled as soon as she could.
âOne class she took was a âone-offâ class (lots of guest lecturers etc.) that maybe was never offered again.
I would not consider this to be a huge factor in making a college decision as long as students are able to get all the coursework they need to graduate in four years (even if there is some compromise among classes outside of the major). Students always have to be flexible for a variety of reasons â some classes may not be offered all the time, some classes may get closed (or in a larger school perhaps the preferred professorâs section is closed )before a student can register etc.
This was a frustration for D17 at a large university in a relatively large department (Cognitive Science) so nothing to do with being small. During her four years, multiple upper-level courses listed in the catalog as active every year or offered every other year were NEVER offered. Never.
This occurred (in my opinion) because the department took a theoretical turn toward a computer science/artificial intelligence angle of cognitive science and away from the language/psychology/philosophy classes in the field. Thus, they stopped offering the courses she had planned to take without ever admitting that they were changing directions to become more of an AI program. It was frustrating for her.
This sort of thing is pretty common in my experience. When we discuss ârigorâ in a department, it can also be about what âschool of thoughtâ in the field is being pursued by that department. My husband has a sub-specialty within his field- when he takes a contract at a college, students who want that direction come to his classes- some even come to attend the college based on that. If (or when) his contract isnât renewed, students no longer get the option to take that sub-specialty, but they are stuck.
It makes it difficult to really plan ahead five years from the time of applying to colleges. Even if a student does due-diligence to make sure the department has the rigor/direction desired, departments shift directions, professors come and go- especially non-tenured faculty- and courses can be retired without ever changing the catalogue.
PS- This happened in the decent-sized Classics department at D17âs university as well.
D20 read the entirety of the course catalogs of every school she applied to (three schools total, so not a flex) and contacted departments she was particularly interested in to find out more about classes that she might want to take.
The way we started thinking about course catalogs after those conversations is that they are way more menu than contract. @happy1 hits the nail on the head; classes can get filled, not be offered the semester you have room in your schedule, have a time conflict with another required class, etc. etc. etc. Just because itâs in the catalog doesnât mean that it will be available to you when you want it.
If you are particularly interested in a specific course, definitely ask how often that course is offered. Especially if it is an upper level course. If you want to do a specific major or minor, it can be a good idea to talk with someone in the department to understand better how departmental course work would look during your 4 years at the school.
D20 hasnât had any trouble getting classes that fulfill her majors or minor. She has had to be flexible in what courses she might take - she hasnât always gotten her first choice. I donât think that is particularly unusual; I think most college students will have that experience at least once.
The closest that D got with this being an issue were for elective classes that were only offered Fall/Spring and not both.
No issues with required courses for her major or concentrations.
We were pleasantly surprised that there were no minimum class size requirements as sheâs in one this semester with less than 10 students.
Classes required for the major and those that meet general studies requirements are generally offered more regularly. Upper-level classes and electives are on rotation, depending on faculty availability and preference. That means one faculty member might have four or five (or more) elective classes that they teach (and that no one else teaches), but they have to rotate them with more of the bread-and-butter classes that they teach more often. In big research universities (or even elite LACs where faculty are expected to engage more with their research), teaching loads are lower, and that means a professor might teach a particular class only once every few years. Even in a more teaching-intensive university like mine, the same could be true (next semester, Iâm teaching a class that I havenât taught since 2015!). Because those elective and more specialized courses might be offered by only one professor, itâs always a good idea to ask faculty when they think they might next teach a particular course. Itâs entirely possible that the course might not show up on the schedule again until after an interested student has graduated.
I think it can be an issue. One daughter was at a ~10,000 student university but in a small department. Often classes were only offered once every 2-3 years. Some were offered every year and no problem getting one of the required for the major (history) classes, but harder to get the specialty classes ( Native american history, world history of a specific era). I remember certain religion/history classes were offered one year and then not again before she graduated. Many classes were cross listed with other departments (like the religion classes, but also architecture, art history) so the history dept didnât always control them. The upper division classes were capped at 24 students, but she could always get a professor to let her into the class. Always.
Other daughter was in the smallest dept at her school (civil engineering) and most of her upper division classes were only offered in one semester and at one time. She didnât have any problem getting the classes, but one class (required) was only offered once and it conflicted with her sport practice. Coach had to let her take it and miss practice for 1 hour twice a week. There may have been other classes she wanted to take that she couldnât fit into her schedule but they werenât required.
Not only may a class only be offered once every 2 years, it may only be offered at the same time as another class the student wants to take. Decisions would have to be made which class is more desired.
The course catalog at d20âs lac contains many more classes than are offered in any one semester or year. Mix in professors on sabbatical and students studying abroad and certain classes might never be a choice.
I just mentioned this in the parent thread, but so that itâs here as well, it isnât just small colleges, or small departments. Iâve spent my career in university English departments, and several years ago I was in one with 70+ full-time facultyâbut the only faculty who taught our linguistics courses were me (my entire teaching load) and one other (about half of their teaching load).
So yeah, it was a comprehensive English department that offered the entire spectrum of subjects generally offered by English departments, including linguisticsâbut the linguistics offerings were sparse (and I just looked it up, they remain sparse) because of the low number of faculty in that specific field, despite the overall size of the department.
Not sure how often an issue it is - but my daughter changed a desired major because of it.
And she canât continue to a 3rd year of Chinese because of it - although theyâll do an independent study.
And her Study Abroad - which sounded better than any Iâve read about at other schools - got cancelled. But thatâs because only 6 signed up and they need ten.
Linguistics seems to be particularly vulnerable to this problem. Although it was a long time ago, I ended up transferring to another school because I had taken all the linguistics classes that were actually being taught (at a LAC), even though there were quite a few more in the catalog (that were not being actively taught).
Thereâs a big difference between the course catalogue and the class schedule for a given semester. Course catalogues include any class currently on the books. But only a fraction of those will be taught any given semester. Students who want to get a sense of how often courses are taught should consult both.
I understand that but I could see where students looking at majors/applying to colleges might not - I suggest trying to consult both for ideas so they are not surprised or disappointed.
And it might be a good idea to either look at several semesters of the schedules or ask the question âhow often are upper level classes offered in X?â If it is only offered every other year in the spring, and thatâs when you are on study abroad (or the professor is) then you are out of luck.
Of course other classes will be offered and they may be great too, but if you have your heart set on this one class or this one professor, you should ask.
It probably ought to be mentioned, though: This isnât necessarily the result of any sort of attempt to lead anyone astray, sometimes the structure of the modern university results in this mismatch.
Sometimes itâs simple inertiaâa course isnât taught anymore (or has been effectively replaced by another course), but changing catalog copy requires paperwork and, at many institutions, sending someone to meetings of a curriculum committee or three, and there just might not have been time, you know?
Sometimes itâs aspirationâa department would really, really like to offer a particular course but doesnât have the faculty to do so, but they want to keep their options open in case they can, and if the opportunity suddenly comes up itâs way simpler to offer a course thatâs already in the catalog.
Sometimes itâs maintaining a position (strategic)âpart of the seedy underbelly of academic politics is that sometimes departments will try to poach particular subject areas from other departments, and the best defense against that can be to demonstrate via a catalog listing that the potentially poached-from department has a vested interest in that area.
Sometimes itâs maintaining a position (financial)âin times of financial reductions a program may lose faculty who would teach particular courses without those lines being replaced, but keeping courses in the catalog can strengthen the programâs bid to have those lines filled if enough funding comes available to add faculty later on.
And so on.
Iâve seen it at numerous schools. I donât believe there is any malicious intent.
My feeling is that universities only create/modify requirements for major every few years. As faculty come and go, so may course offerings. The vacant courses donât get taken off of the major requirements or course catalog because they may be offered again if the university can find a new professor with that expertise.
The school may ask a remaining professor to teach a course that was left vacant but who wants to do that? Even if you know the subject well enough, it is much easier to teach what youâve already taught than it is to create a new course, lectures, slides, tests, etc. I sometimes see a visiting scholar or PhD student teaching a course that hasnât been offered for a while.
Absolutely. Agree on all points.
It happened to me in undergrad (small, NE LAC) . There was an upper level course that I wanted/needed that was only offered one semester a year, and there was a prerequisite (if I recall correctly) that I was about to take, but then the course I wanted/needed wasnât going to be offered at all the following year b/c the professor was going to be on sabbatical. But back in the Stone Age you could simply go talk to the professor and theyâd sign your card and you could register for the class. So I took the prereq and the upper level class simultaneously. Donât know if that would work in this day and age.
My D did a similar thing a few years ago at her LAC so maybe things havenât changed all that much!