MIT admissions dean resigns over resume fraud. Ouch!

<p>Latetoschool - You raise an interesting question (Previously raised by Northstarmom regarding the husband who is also an MIT employee)

[quote]
So she fills out her very first application, and, comes to me and says "mom, the form asks for the name of parent's college, and your degree". . . . . . . .So I am wondering how Marilee's daughter answered this question on applications, and, if it will have some deleterious impact for her - probably not, because I guess the advantage is weighted for students who are first generation college students...still, it makes me wonder what is the potential fallout beyond the person initiating the fraud.

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<p>Did Marilee's family know about the Fraud? It would seem almost impossible for her husband not to have known. In the case of her daughter, I would imagine Marilee just lied to her like she has to everyone else. </p>

<p>But if Marilee told the truth to the daughter. . . and the daughter reported the truth, then the applications would have gone on to the colleges listing no degrees for Marilee. Because of Marilee being so well known, that certainly would have raised eyebrows in those College's admission offices. Maybe that was the source of the anonymous phone call to MIT questioning Marilee's degrees.</p>

<p>I also wonder what the effect will be upon the Husband's employment status at MIT.
On the one hand, he helped Marilee in her Fraud.
But on the other hand, he has demonstrated he can keep secrets.
Perhaps that will be considered more important if he is doing DOD research. :)</p>

<p>PS - I agree that Marilee's Resume fraud had no effect on the quality of the classes admitted.
There are sooooo many great kids applying and so few spots.
MIT could probably come up with three separate classes from their pool of applicants and there would be no difference in the quality of the admitted classes.
Marilee really had an easy job. It would be hard for her to make any mistakes, too bad Marilee made such a serious mistake at the beginning of her employment and lacked the character to correct it.</p>

<p>Oh, the tangled web we weave.</p>

<p>The questions that Rich73 brings forth are those that cause me to really question the "shock and surprise" that so many on the inside claim to have had. This was a fairly big lie to have kept so well concealed, for so long. </p>

<p>Of course, Marilee's husband knew the truth, and he has a faculty position at MIT. He was complicit in her fraud. In some ways, I find his culpability heinous as well.</p>

<p>LTS - do you remember the part in Wizard of Oz where the Wizard gives the lion his medal, and the tinman his heart ... and the scarecrow his certificate? Remember, always, that you have the knowledge and the wisdom to use that knowledge correctly. </p>

<p>As for using that tone of voice - I will bet that someday you will be able to talk with your wonderful child about the circuitous path that your quest for learning took.</p>

<p>Calmom, (not to derail the thread), my perspective is a little different, in that, in a single parent home, I greatly feared the societal positioning and the potential external influences, added to, I earn a LOT of money and I love my work (while simultaneously being absolutely nowhere near anything like a Bill Gates, and never will be), and I feared my daughter might get some idea like "I don't need college, my mom never went, and she makes a lot more money than all these other people" while failing to understand that her mom is an anomoly of sorts, etc. on top of my fears that she was already at some risk of never getting to go to college, just from being in a single parent home, so, - I felt I simply could not roll that dice, and so just never had that discussion with her. </p>

<p>But you're right, it's of little consequence now, and I am counting the mere days now until I am sitting in a chair in some auditorium (it'll probably be one of those cheap institutional chairs but of course I will not notice or care), and someone is going to announce her name (will they have a hand held mike or speak from a podium? will they pronounce her name correctly?), and she's going to walk on up on a stage (which shoes will she pick I'm wondering? she tends to be a klutz sometimes, will she trip along the way?), and they're going to hand her a degree (what will this look like? are they rolled up, or in a plaque of some sort - I do "get" that the "real" degree shows up in the mail later, still, I'm very, very curious) - TWO of them, actually (!!!!!) (does this mean they'll hand her both at the same time, or, will they call her up twice???) - anyway, I am wondering if you can imagine my just very incredible, overwhelming joy :) - I hope I am able to operate the camera...</p>

<p>But back to the thread, and the original context of my post, people who lie do just incalculable harm to so many others...I hope that those most innocent of persons close to Marilee do not have to suffer so much, especially if they have unwittingly perpetuated the lies.</p>

<p>Funny thing, the rest of the world outside of college admissions doesn't even seem aware of the forced resignation. With mit allowing her to resign she will have a very nice resume (who knows how nice :)) with all the great awards bestowed on her by mit and others. </p>

<p>Something like " Left mit in 2007 in order to persue her love of top college admissions consulting."</p>

<p>On cnbc last night there was a blip on the story and the conclusion was that 41% of people lie on applications. One of the two guests felt that there is absolutely nothing wrong with embellishing your resume (as he felt Jones did). The Harvard grad. moderator looked aghast and said " she lied!" I was disappointed to say the least.</p>

<p>This sadly already seems like "old news".</p>

<p>It is really shocking that 41% of people lie on applications (if that statistic is accurate).</p>

<p>There will be no effect on Marilee's daughter, because M's daughter didn't lie on her application. Marilee lied to her daughter; her daughter didn't lie on her app. Her daughter is an innocent victim.</p>

<p>I'm wondering how that stat was actually gathered. If people lie, how often are they discovered (see Marilee Jones' case or the many cases of plagiarism that were not uncovered until much later)? How are they discovered?
What is considered a lie? An exaggeration (more EC hours than actually performed)? An outright fabrication?</p>

<p>It was on NPR and in our local paper yesterday. So I'd say the outside world is aware of it.</p>

<p>I think the stat is gathered by asking people anonymously if they have ever lied ont heir resume. People simply answer Yes or No.</p>

<p>Sax said: "Funny thing, the rest of the world outside of college admissions doesn't even seem aware of the forced resignation."</p>

<p>NOT true: it was the top most-emailed story in the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and the Washington Post.</p>

<p>As for what she can do next: private college counseling, of course. Imagine how good she'd be as an "essay consultant."</p>

<p>dmd... do you mean most downloaded? </p>

<p>Take a personal survey of the people you see today just for the heck of it. I have yet to talk to anyone where this has registered on their radar.</p>

<p>I have no idea where they got the 41%</p>

<p>Sax, no, all three papers have a "most emailed" list that they maintain. When I don't have time to browse the on-line version, I often just check the "most emailed" list. "Most downloaded" is different--often the order is different--but "most emailed" is the articles that people send to each other.</p>

<p>thanks, I didn't know that. I look at comcast news on the internet and they did not even mention it. Yeah, I know. Not the most intellectual news site :)</p>

<p>% of people who lie on their resume:
50% <a href="http://content.monster.com/articles/3475/17197/1/default.aspx%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://content.monster.com/articles/3475/17197/1/default.aspx&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>40%<a href="http://www.forbes.com/2006/05/20/resume-lies-work_cx_kdt_06work_0523lies.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.forbes.com/2006/05/20/resume-lies-work_cx_kdt_06work_0523lies.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>6-55% <a href="http://www.studentclearinghouse.org/about/news/pdfs/Newsday_070504.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.studentclearinghouse.org/about/news/pdfs/Newsday_070504.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>12% in 2002 vs. 22% 6 mo. earlierhttp://hr.blr.com/news.aspx?id=3877
This next one is pretty good
<a href="http://www.infolinkscreening.com/InfoLink/Resources/Articles/Resumes_getting_checked_twice.aspx%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.infolinkscreening.com/InfoLink/Resources/Articles/Resumes_getting_checked_twice.aspx&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I'm still reeling myself, even having read thoroughly only maybe a third of the replies.</p>

<p>Even before the whole globe "got cyber," I would never have been so bold as to misstate degrees -- or fabricate anything! I always assumed that degrees could be, would be verified with a phone call or in writing, and that things like "personal references" really would be called. No, I also wasn't tempted to lie on my rsume, but what I'm saying is, I took extra pains not to exaggerate, even -- meticulously checking dates, names, whatever, just so there would not be <em>even</em> an innocent mistake that would then "expose" me for misrepresentation.</p>

<p>But 9 years ago was certainly a cyber-researchable time, and What Was She Thinking to apply for such a high-profile position, albeit from an internal position? Obviously she really cooked her goose when she lied the first time. Had she never misrepresented the degrees, but done a bang-up job for the previous 19 yrs (did she have interim positions between a.a. & Dean of Admissions?), she could have lobbied for herself mightily as having proven her worth & having deserved promotion from within. She clearly is capable. Yes (someone said her job is "easy") -- yes, she doesn't have to search for great candidates; she could probably toss the applications up in the air. I'm not saying she hasn't selected great classes with care, or guided her staff to do so. I'm saying that someone clever enough to go from admin asst to Dean of Admissions, write a book (later), do yadayada, could have conducted an effective campaign for the position of Dean without fabrication. Yet (of course), having lied initially, she was in no position to apply for the Dean's job by "correcting" her resume (coming clean) at that point. Her competition for the job would have in fact several degrees, & she would have known that her lack of them would automatically make her odds quite long. (Although I do not necessarily think that MIT would have fired her for coming clean 9 yrs ago if she had a great track record there.)</p>

<p>It also strikes me that she must have been quite ambitious when she did apply to MIT initially. Others have pointed out that it's odd to represent 3 degrees when applying for admin.asst. I'll go further: I've found it to be a liability to apply "down" for a job. I've had potential employers say time & again that I'm overqualified, & that they're concerned that I will get bored on the job. (When I've looked for filler, temporary jobs, or jobs that really did state they were promotable.) When I myself have hired others, I've similarly been concerned about the over-qualification factor. When I worked in a corporation in the '80's, every female applicant applying for secretarial positions within our company was way overqualified. The corporation was heavily male & also had a policy of not promoting from within. So we always had to disclose the policy to applicants. Nevertheless. we really had no choice. No one barely qualified or under-qualified ever applied. We ended up with a pool of overeducated secretaries, 100% of whom were ambitious (even though they claimed not to be during interviews). To a person, they all sought promotion a.s.a.p. within the company (despite the policy). But had someone applied without multiple degrees, we would have taken her/him first, ahead of the over-educated ones!</p>

<p>Thus, this tells me that Marilee never initially had any intention of staying as an admin.asst. She must have known that one didn't need multiple technical degrees for such a semi-entry-level position. To me, it makes her misrepresentation worse because it shows, as they say in law, premeditation.</p>

<p>To those who say that the female admits were soft applicants, no way. From our h.s., they've gotten in on raw merit, & the admits are few, even when the applications are strong & plentiful. Again, this tells me that she's one capable gal and <em>didn't</em> need to fabricate back in the '70's, let alone 9 yrs. ago, to have achieved the position. She had the vision & brains to judge capability & talent, without multiple technical degrees. (I may be echoing sentiments of emeraldkity & JHS.) The fact that she felt she "had" to, to me reinforces the period of "desperate ambition" (not a judgement call, an observation) that I saw between the late '70's and mid '80's for women. A world of opportunity opened up, & the push for job equality & salary parity was huge. We saw that at our doorstep in the corporation.</p>

<p>Could this be more rotten timing? Just when we're experiencing the "most competitive application years ever"? (And will peak with the college grad. class of 2012) When there have been so many qualified applicants denied, for reasons having to do with glut of apps & glut of qualifications? When families have wondered about "the process"? Terrific. Just terrific.</p>

<p>
[quote]
In her crusade to supposedly de-stress the application process she kept saying how she wanted kids to go out and smell flowers and write poetry instead of study for their SATs. But in practice MIT just kept on taking the applicants with stratospheric grades, scores, and ECs.

[/quote]
She was a "do as I say not as I do" person in this and in her own resume.</p>

<p>Still, I liked her message about de-stressing college admissions. Don't know if it had or will have an effect. But it is a good message. And I'm not sure that any highly selective and academically demanding school can make the changes her message implied.</p>

<p>"So I am wondering how Marilee's daughter answered this question on applications, and, if it will have some deleterious impact for her"</p>

<p>I'm sure that Jones' daughter did what all of our kids did: Asked about her mom's education, and then put on the application what her mom said.</p>

<p>It's very possible that with the specific degrees, dates and institutions about Jones' education Jones' daughter had to put on the app, some admissions officer with a connection to one of those colleges realized that the info was bogus. This actually may have led to Jones' being turned in.</p>

<p>It's even possible that given the science background of the dad, the D may have applied to science-intensive colleges like RPI, perhaps even using it as a safety. Indeed, this may have led to Shirley Jackson's turning her in as someone supposed her on this thread. </p>

<p>The D would not have been to blame at all, and I doubt that there would have been any consequences for the D, whom any admissions officer would know would have gotten the info from her mom.</p>

<p>epiphany: To my mind, one of the more mind-boggling aspects of this fabrication, is that the original resume listed only the undergraduate degree and the masters. This was stated in the NYT article (supposedly by those who know) and also here on this thread. Nowhere was it mentioned that she also referred to herself as a "PhD candidate" on the resume, either--(ie, all but the dissertation). So, this is why I think others certainly knew about the lack of PhD credentials (if not the other degrees). At some point, she would have had to take time out to get this 3rd degree; consequently, others had to know something was amiss--when the PhD starting appearing after her name, and people started referring to her as "Dr"-- they just didn't bother to say anything.</p>

<p>My first thoughts upon hearing about Jones' fabrications focused on outrage and disgust at her hypocrisy and sadness for what her actions meant for the integrity of the admissions process. Now that I have been reading through this thread I have started to think about her daughter.</p>

<p>Marilee's daughter, like mine, is a college freshman. My daughter made an easy adjustment and is having a wonderful first year, but I wonder what learning something like this would do to her. My freshman is about to start her finals period. I am not sure what the academic calendar is at Jones' daughter's school, but I expect it is similar. Of course finals is the least of it. I can't imagine what this has done to her daughter and the extent to which it has rocked her basic trust in her parent.</p>

<p>What is CPW, and who are Ben and Matt?</p>

<p>(Not in-the-know) :)</p>