<p>dmd77, I'm sorry that you missed an opportunity due to MJ's deception. It must be quite galling to you -- you are an MIT alum, right? As such, I'm sure you would have had a better idea of what it takes to earn an MIT degree, as opposed to a HS graduate -- I assume she at least graduated from hs!?</p>
<p>I was working at MIT at the time, and like many others, thought it would be nice to work in admissions. I was probably no more qualified than anyone else (probably less)... but certainly hadn't lied on my resume. And yes, I do have an MIT degree (and my son will, in just a few more weeks), and over the years, I have criticized Marilee Jones (along with others) for her particular cluelessness about the real MIT. (I have no idea why Admissions wants to admit students who aren't interested in math, science, or engineering... really.)</p>
<p>Cheers, I went onto my MIT facebook account (which I visit about once every four or five months) to see just what kind of "support" MJ was getting, since MIT students are known for their irony.</p>
<p>One of them said "we can't blame you for faking your resume... after all, we faked ours."</p>
<p>"Marilee doesn't need your compassion...she needs a psychiatrist. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that your compassion isn't helping her one bit--it's actually harming her."</p>
<p>Good thing she was "just" an admissions director, not an engineer building bridges. ;)</p>
<p>I'm not trying to interfere or anything I'd just like to say a few things at this point. I spent about an hour catching up on the thread up to this point and I was wondering if I could just ask posters not to assume to know a person from reading a couple of articles about them at their lowest?</p>
<p>Comments like this:</p>
<p>
[quote]
It's doubtful a person like her can even feel genuine remorse.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>are really just disappointing. You have no idea what she is going through. And no amount of indignity or speculation is going to make your omniscient. And please do realize that we are a generation (though we may be several) just smothered by media and propaganda and please treat the things you read and hear with a grain of skepticism that you would have bestowed upon them two weeks ago and don't say anything you would have to put back into your mouth when (if) more of the story comes out.</p>
<p>And Re: the Marilee Jones Facebook group. You could be right, all these young men and women could have just been spellstruck by her charisma or they're morally corrupt or they've made immaturity an art form or all those things, or perhaps they're just rallying around what they see as a tragedy. You seem to be moral people with consciences and for that I commend you. But I think an integral part of both morality and conscience is an innate human trust. Maybe I'm idealistic, but I'm always slow to condemn someone's character (I do condemn many other things :P), especially with the only evidence available being the media's spin on interesting newsworthy stories. In addition, just as important is the ability to make distinctions between various levels of sin/immorality without using one situation in exchange (in our minds) for another. Those stories about doctors or embezzlers, they're different situations. Treat them as such. To say that someone "doesn't deserve our compassion" is a heavily condemning statement, and I just hope you guys really think over the things you say.</p>
<p>One does not need to "know" MJ but rather to know the elements of narcissistic personality disorder and sociopathic personality disorder. I think many who have posted on this thread have a cursory knowledge of what a psychiatric problem is.</p>
<p>Is that your diagnosis, doctor?</p>
<p>
[quote]
**if I could just ask posters not to assume to know a person from reading a couple of articles about them at their lowest?
[/quote]
**
My comments regard her behavior, public statements and documented and admtited fraud. Very simple.</p>
<p>This is in response to post #922, in which dmd77 stated that he/she didn't understand why MIT would want to admit students who weren't interested in math, science, and engineering.</p>
<p>I attended an admissions presentation at Monta Vista High School a couple of years ago, at which Matt McGann told the audience that to be considered, students would need to have "math scores in the high 700s" and that they would have to "really demonstrate an interest in science." He also said, "You don't need to have all A's on the transcript, but they should be mostly A's." All of this was very exciting to my daughter, who was a sophomore at the time. I heard him a year later in downtown San Jose, where the presentation soft-pedaled those requirements. I've always wondered if it was the context that made the difference, since Monta Vista is ranked (according to standardized scores alone) as the 3rd top school in California and regularly graduates dozens of students with SAT scores in the 800s and perfect GPAs. </p>
<p>To make a long story short, I came away from the Monta Vista presentation with the idea that applicants definitely had to be interested and talented in math and science. However, I spoke afterwards to someone who'd received a PhD from MIT and had also been in the audience that year, and he expressed an opinion very similar to that of dmd77; he didn't understand why MIT was trying to characterize itself as anything other than an engineering school. Was it the stories about the musical groups? Pictures about the sports, or brief mention of the arts? I have to admit, that those features are what made MIT a more appealing package than Stanford and other schools with strong engineering schools.</p>
<p>Well, as an MIT student, I wonder why we should be denied the same fulfilling college experience that students who are not serious about math and science are allowed? It's a science and engineering school, sure, but it's also our home, and four years of our lives. It's the best science and engineering school in the country. To get the best education must we sacrifice social interaction and extra curriculars and our other diverse interests? </p>
<p>And what for? Just so a couple of completely detached people can feel good about having a place that's "pure" and "hardcore" and "serious"?</p>
<p>Pebbles,</p>
<p>I'm a woman who graduated MIT in 1980. It may surprise you that back then, MIT had sports, musicals, musical theatre, a fantastic outing club, game clubs, etc., etc.. All of which were very welcoming to women students. Students did their studying in study groups, and it didn't take all our time. If you think Marilee Jones invented any of this, or even facilitated it very much, you are sorely mistaken. MIT students are very smart - they know how to make fun happen. </p>
<p>Where, where, did you get the idea that recent classes at MIT invented social interaction, or diverse interests? Next thing you know you'll tell us your parents never had sex.</p>
<p>dmd...love your description of the real MIT.</p>
<p>As a friend to many MIT grads, I don't doubt your assessment for one minute.</p>
<p>The 'poor girl' (emphasis on the word 'girl') schtick is really getting to me. Somebody cyber smack cheers before she turns into Bill O'Reilly.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Good thing she was "just" an admissions director, not an engineer building bridges. ;)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>How true. My H is a chemical engineer. Fudging degrees is not an option, is it, when one is responsible for designing multi-million dollar chemical plants? </p>
<p>Seems to me MIT, of all places, should know the importance of qualifications. </p>
<p>PC got in the way of clear-thinking here, it seems to me. But then again, the whole world has gone mad in that arena.</p>
<p>This has nothing whatsover to do with PC. Political correctness does not prevent employers from looking at the qualifications of its employees to be. </p>
<p>This was stupidity and an oversight of grand magnitude, nothing more insidious than that. It grew into something more heinous as the years passed, and the lies were covered up or expanded. </p>
<p>But even after 28 years, it wasn't political correctness that prevented the truth about Marilee from being revealed. IMHO ;)</p>
<p>I don't think hiring and promoting Ms. Jones had much to do with being PC. It's clear from her books, speeches, and following she created for herself that she is a smooth talker with a knack for self-promotion. Heck, all the misplaced sympathy and admiration she is still getting from supporters, in spite of being an exposed fraudster, shows how well she is able to pull it off.</p>
<p>No, simple PC can't account for it. I think when she interviewed for her first MIT job and again for the deanship she just charmed them all and convinced them all how terrific she was to the point that they never bothered to ask any hard questions or do any routine qualification checks.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I don't think hiring and promoting Ms. Jones had much to do with being PC. It's clear from her books, speeches, and following she created for herself that she is a smooth talker with a knack for self-promotion.
[/quote]
Again, another uber-narcissistic trait. Most of them are downright charming--and able to fool the masses nearly effortlessly.</p>
<p>
[quote]
...nothing more insidious than that.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I doubt that cheers or my husband would be allowed to get by on smooth-talking self-promotion and "charm" in their lines of work. Could have dire consequences. Perhaps MIT thought the consequences here were not apt to be so dire if certain qualifications were lacking.</p>
<p>Guess they were wrong.</p>
<p>
[quote]
It may surprise you that back then, MIT had sports, musicals, musical theatre, a fantastic outing club, game clubs, etc., etc.. All of which were very welcoming to women students. Students did their studying in study groups, and it didn't take all our time. If you think Marilee Jones invented any of this, or even facilitated it very much, you are sorely mistaken. MIT students are very smart - they know how to make fun happen.
[/quote]
Well, of course no one in the admissions office made this happen -- but it's important information for prospective applicants to know, isn't it? I mean, even with Admissions talking about arts groups and the humanities requirement at meetings, we still get kids on the MIT board asking if we do anything but study and if you can come to MIT and still like poetry.</p>
<p>I think the admissions office is just trying to recruit kids who will make great scientists and engineers, but who might not normally apply to MIT because they think it's too much of something it's not.</p>
<p>On another note,
[quote]
The 'Show Her The Love ' campaign coming from recent MIT grads is all about their young egos--and PC gone mad.
[/quote]
I can speak for myself in saying my support for Marilee isn't about my ego or my degree -- it's because she was my boss when I was a blogger and I like her. I'm tremendously disappointed in her actions, but I still like her. (Incidentally, and somewhat ironically, those who are accusing Marilee of being a hypocrite might want to examine the planks in their own eyes, etc.)</p>
<p>But Mollie--the entire point of going to MIT, for me, for my son, for every other MIT person I knew well, was that it's a place for the gnurds who simply don't fit in elsewhere. My god, EVERY SINGLE MIT STUDENT I KNOW has said "at last I found a place where I met people <em>LIKE ME</em>." (Including my son's friends too.)</p>
<p>So again, the problem I had with MJ for years was that she was trying to change that. Letting the riff-raff in and all that.</p>
<p>Lots of folks liked Richard Nixon too. Well, totalitarians seemed to like him anyway.</p>
<p>And lots of people liked Stephen Glass. And all the other pathological liars.</p>
<p>Your 'like' is irrelevant to our annoyance. She well and truly deserves the verbal bash. If you say she doesn't, then you do justice a disservice. If you say she doesn't deserve the bash because she is female, then you do professional women a HUGE disservice. </p>
<p>My point is that she is tough. She is obviously highly creative. She will survive hwatever verbal thrashing she gets. No one needs to sugar-coat their disgust because she is a really really nice lady. No one needs to keep her 'feelings' in mind at this juncture.</p>
<p>She isn't being sent to the Gulag, for chrissakes.</p>