<p>^^^ And, about what kind of people one would want one's personal and financial information as well as parents' financial information entrusted with. All US universities, including MIT, should seriously evaluate the background of people populating their admission and financial aid offices.</p>
<p>Gee, I thought the VT story was about integrity and honor as well. And, the aftermath of the Virginia Tech shootings will definitely be affecting admissions policies at colleges across the nation in the very near future -- to the point where some are saying that universities should "seriously evaluate the background" of applicants. But then, Virginia Tech isn't that hard to get into, and no one is really angry and bitter about being denied or their kid being denied admission there.</p>
<p>Not condoning what Marilee Jones did, but it was not the end of the world, nor is it likely to have a major effect, if any, on the way admissions policies are carried out at other schools.</p>
<p>Just some devil's advocate perspective from where I'm sitting. :)</p>
<p>hmmmm...carolyn....the Virginia Tech thread died because the information was complete. There could have been a sidebar discussion about why the mainline media dropped references to autism and paranoid schizophrenia. Really though, the thread ran it's course about the time that students asked evryone to leave them in peace.</p>
<p>This thread is still interesting. Since CC has many MIT grads as posters--it is still informative. I've learned a few things in recent posts.</p>
<p>Also, MIT, as one of two of our best Math/Science universities, is intrinsic to our concept of ourselves as inventive Americans--in a way that Virginia Tech is not. MIT and CALTECH produce superior graduates who lead the way in technological inventiveness, a key source of our superpower status and economic prosperity over the last 50 years.</p>
<p>We all have a stake in the survivial and continued excellence of MIT and Caltech.</p>
<p>Jones was able to use deception to wield power at MIT. That is a threat to the institution of MIT. It is a threat because she deceived them, with their help, for so long. It is a threat because it indicates a lack of strong leadership at the top.</p>
<p>My opinion, anyway.</p>
<p>
I don't. What WAS the point? The Duke thread has gotten more posts/hits than BOTH of these. And? It's ridiculous to compare the two situations. They are simply nothing alike.</p>
<p>This thread isn't simply about someone who "falsifies" her credentials. I agree that it's about admissions, power, authority-- and, really, so much more. </p>
<p>To my mind, the Va Tech story is more about mental illness; gun control (or serious lack of in this country); isolation; and the disenfranchised (those who are, or those who simply feel that they are). Aside from the murders on the Va Tech campus, this kid also committed suicide. Kids commit suicide every week, it seems, on college campuses--one of the most recent at Elon University, where a sophomore threw himself in front of an Amtrak about 3 weeks ago. So, there's your LAC-- a small "nurturing" school that people seem to love on CC, and one where you have lots of faculty involvement and "individual attention," and no one "falls through the cracks." So . . . why did no one notice this kid was having trouble? </p>
<p>At any rate, I don't think the Va Tech story was about "integrity and honor." In fact, in some ways, I think it was closer to the recent Elon suicide. Why is no one taking any real notice or action when it's clear that someone is seriously on the brink? </p>
<p>To relate it back to this story, why did no one step up before now w/regard to Jones and her deception? No one harbors secrets like this for 28 years without others noticing and knowing. </p>
<p>All 3 of those cases above smack of isolation, desperation, delusion, and an inability to cope with reality (in my untrained opinon!). Why did no one ever reach out to any of these people? I know nothing of Va Tech as a school, but I keep hearing about how MIT is such a "close-knit family," and everybody loves everybody-- and how LAC's, like Elon, are so close and nurturing. </p>
<p>So, what's the common thread here? I should add that I don't have the answer to that. I just think it's an interesting question.</p>
<p>^^Good points.
[quote]
...it's not the end of the world.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You know, when we stop bothering to feel outrage (or even worse, told we don't have the right to feel this--to "move on") at people lying and cheating their way to the "top," it could be the end of the world as we have known it. Judging by so many posts in this thread, it seems we're almost there.</p>
<p>I'd like to see how many here would respond if, say, Alberto Gonzales was found to have falsified his degrees. Somehow I think then outrage would be expected, and anyone excusing him for whatever reasons would be absolutely vilified here. Why is there such a double standard just because this situation took place in academia.</p>
<p>Perhaps this gives us a clue as to why there seem to be so many things gone haywire at our universities and colleges today.</p>
<p>Carolyn, no, you're right, it's not "the end of the world." </p>
<p>Nothing we discuss here on CC is. Nor, I imagine, on your Admissions Blog.</p>
<p>But, like HH says, integrity and the upholding of personal responsibility are the backbone of what make civilization worthwhile--in fact, they are what make civilization.</p>
<p>So actually, I can't think of a more important topic for us, as fellow human beings whose decisions either make the kind of world we live in better, or don't, to discuss.</p>
<p>Gonzales= dishonest and incompetent w degree
Jones= dishonest but competent w/out degree</p>
<p>not sure this is a good comparison</p>
<p>
[quote]
And, about what kind of people one would want one's personal and financial information as well as parents' financial information entrusted with. All US universities, including MIT, should seriously evaluate the background of people populating their admission and financial aid offices.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I like this point. Indeed, admission offices get to read a lot of very personal information about applicants that those applicants don't share with anyone else. Definitely, colleges should be checking the credentials of their admission officers.</p>
<p>It's hard to imagine a more important quality in an admissions director than integrity.</p>
<p>And how many of us can discuss this topic in RL with as many interested folks? EVeryone I know had something to say about the VT tragedy. I didn't post on that thread because I had better places to to go than a college discussion board.
The admissions dean at MIT? Honestly, most of my friends haven't even heard about this yet. And very few would care. Compared to the war, the climate crisis, the dishonesty in our government leaders, and just making a living, it's not a biggie to most people.
This is the venue where those who care, come. No mystery.</p>
<p>" MIT and CALTECH produce superior graduates who lead the way in technological inventiveness, a key source of our superpower status and economic prosperity over the last 50 years.</p>
<p>We all have a stake in the survivial and continued excellence of MIT and Caltech"</p>
<p>Excuse me I have to get a barf bag.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>Gee, I thought the VT story was about integrity and honor as well.<<</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>It's hard to draw meaningful comparisons between a story about a mentally-ill person who goes on a murderous rampage and prominent school official who lied her way to the top, because they are in completely different categories. Apples and oranges. Or apples and watermelons.</p>
<p>This thread is about a public person. The VT thread was a terrible tragedy, about private people, experiencing a truly horrible event. I don't have a problem with people wishing to share their shock and dismay, but it was touch and go on that thread at times, as far as what is appropriate imo. It was right for that thread to end. Just my opinion.</p>
<p>coureur: But it is refeshing to know that there are so many perfect people in the world who have time to go on CC and play junior detective and/or Freud and try to turn a stupid act into the equivalent of a conspiracy novel and psychodrama all at once. After all she was an admissions officer who got caught and got canned. Maybe she just felt insecure and like many before and after in high and low places used really really really poor judgement and like many organizations in the past and in the future MIT was found to have insufficient internal controls after the fact. Of course it gives people an excuse to cite all of what is wrong about the university and every policy it has. Conjecture is so fun</p>
<p>Guavas and Canteloupes
Papayas and Kumquats
Huckleberries and Pomegranates</p>
<p>"admissions officer who . . . got canned."</p>
<p>Actually, she was given the option to resign, so she wasn't technically "canned." She gets to keep her pension, and "resigning" gives her many more options for a brighter future . . .</p>
<p>I think a lot of parents who have recently been through the college process see Jones's actions as a breach of trust .. a personal breach... because she represents college admissions with a capital "A". The fact that she promoted her philosophies all over the country on high school campuses makes it even more personal.<br>
Our kids have worked their tails off to present an honest and representative picture of themselves on their college applications. It angers parents to see that those on the other end of the process are not doing the same. Her actions taint the entire admissions process - not just at MIT- and add cynicism to what was already a pretty cynical opinion of the process.</p>
<p>^^^^^^^ yes.</p>
<p>Googled Marilee Jones St Rose - and what pops up but a link to PRAVDA the English version. also available in Russian, Portugese and Italian.</p>
<p>So the story appears to have world wide appeal. ;)</p>
<p>A.S.A.P. That is exactly how I feel. When some people ask where was the harm (and it was NEVER to the reputation of the wonderful MIT students or the school itself or to the other fine, hardworking people in the admissions office) - THAT'S where.</p>