<p>
[quote]
Who would hire her as a consultant?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I think she will do nicely as an admissions consultant.</p>
<p>Tutu. You may be right. However, I personally would not hire someone who lied on an application to guide my young adult in the admissions process. I can't be alone in this.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>If I understand what you are saying, I couldn't disagree more. If the body of her work as dean of admissions was positive, finding out that her credentials were phony doesn't change that. Despite slapping two US enlisted men in Sicily in 1943, George Patton waged three brilliant campaigns in the European war that probably saved thousands of lives. His serious personality flaws and failures of personal judgment do not eliminate his accomplishments.</p>
<p>Not in reference to JHS' post:</p>
<p>The rush to condemn is impressive. I haven't committed this particular sin, but I sure am guilty of a wide range of personal failures in my life. I'm not sure what she has done is so bad that you can just write off her whole life and toss her in the waste bin. Even Richard Nixon achieved a certain degree of redemption before he died.</p>
<p>It also occurs to me that if it was revealed that our top sales rep or successful CEO had lied on their resume the result would be a light smack on the wrist and a stern talking-to. Don't even start with me on "academic honesty." I've been a graduate student and alumni volunteer on a college campus. Colleges are just as full of liars and hypocrites as any other segment of society. They have even more backbiting politics than most organizations. It seems like this sort of thing is a deadly sin in academia, and periodically requires someone to be burned at the stake.</p>
<p>Why, sax? The whole point in hiring an admissions consultant is to game the system and get a leg up on the middle/lower classes. As despicable as I find her actions, I'd consider hiring her if I were in the market for an admissions consultant. She has huge volumes of behind-the-scenes knowledge and as I mentioned above, she's probably quite skilled at packaging people/applications in an appealing way. That being said, I don't think I'll ever be in the market for that kind of service.</p>
<p>"Colleges are just as full of liars and hypocrites as any other segment of society. They have even more backbiting politics than most organizations."</p>
<p>I agree. Some schools may actually have groups of professors that easily fit in to that category.</p>
<p>MIT2011Dad:</p>
<p>I hear your frustration. Remember the shock when the Dean of Admissions at Princeton was fired for breaking into Yale admissions computers a few years ago? Princeton doesn't seem to be the worse for it today. I imagine MIT will will fare the same.</p>
<p>But how affective was the Dean of Admissions at Princeton on Princeton's admissions process? Marilee Jones totally transformed MIT's admissions process.</p>
<p>I see this as having a huge effect on MIT's reputation.</p>
<p>Do employers check credentials? Now, will employers check credentials? I am not condoning the situation at hand, and perhaps we are too trusting of a society, but in this day and time, it appears that one's word is not sufficient anymore. It is sad indeed that the words honestly and honor seem to be disappearing from our society.</p>
<p>Phuriku:</p>
<p>He seemed to be instrumental in making sure people who were likely to get admittance to Yale and perhaps other HYPSM schools did not get an offer from Princeton in order to boost their yield. So, he probably screwed many people who actually did want to go to Princeton over the other schools.
Princeton's yield has dropped since he was fired but the school's reputation is still great as we all know.</p>
<p>The fact that the "rush to condemn" is not broad across all professions does not mean that it is undeserved. Though certainly more mature and better-written, your post, WashDad, reminds me of what a lot of people post when someone asks what they should do about a friend who has cheated. "A lot of people cheat"..."What's the big deal"..."Mind your own business"..."They just made a mistake". Cheating DOES and SHOULD, if not invalidate, at least taint the offenders work/life. I'm sure that Jones will make a recovery and probably will be just fine, and while I believe in second chances, I also believe in punishment and yes, in a way, condemnation--cheating, lying, is not okay. Personally, I don't know that I would ever trust someone who lied so egregiously and for such a long time, and the fact that some people can does not sway me in any way. </p>
<p>I don't know that I agree that the reaction would be less if Jones were a CEO, but the fact that her lie renders her a first-class hypocrite does make the condemnation more intense. And if she is simply one of many in higher education who are back-biters and liars, then I'm more than ready to condemn the others, as well. </p>
<p>P.S. And don't mention Nixon to me...that man gets no redemption in my house! :).</p>
<p>cavalier. I would not hire her because I think it would be a wrong message to send to my young adult. Of course, I'm too cheap to hire a college consultant anyway :)</p>
<p>I just feel as if M. Jones will have a very hard time moving forward because I do believe she is a caring, warm individual that just made some very,very bad choices. I believe she has a conscience and it will be very hard for her to right herself. I hope she can.</p>
<p>
[quote]
**I believe she has a conscience and it will be very hard for her to right herself.
[/quote]
**
and it was what sleeping for 27 years? Selective in action? Don't kill but commit fraud? I don't understand your statement.</p>
<p>College profs and students are human beings, after all, and as full of sin as any one else. But each community has its hierarchy of sins, and in academia, cheating and lying are the ultimate sins (it does not mean that they are not committed regularly; to the contrary!). </p>
<p>I feel very sad that Marilee Jones resigned under such a cloud. I saw her in action at an admission session and talked to her briefly afterward. I was very very impressed with her. I also thought that her attempts to inject some sanity into the pre-college years were very much needed. In the end, though, a dean, and one who is, to applicants and their parents, the face of a college, must model the virtues that the college cherishes. And in academia, the highest virtue is honesty, even if it is sometimes honored only in the breach.</p>
<p>To clarify: I don't want to come across like I'm fuming at Jones and plotting her assasination--far from it! I always think that it is sad when someone is exposed to have cheated/lied, and I always presume that said person is innocent until the proof comes out (and obviously, the proof is out here). But cheating and lying just can't be condoned, in my opinion, and I'm unwilling to back down from my opinion that this is quite an egregious offense.</p>
<p>Wow. Just wow. </p>
<p>Well, she's totally shot herself in the foot. If she had been real, she could have left MIT and become a world renowned lecturer. Actually, she had already become that; just look at all the places she's spoken already. At my son's HS in CT as well as all the other places previous posters have mentioned.</p>
<p>This IS an excellent example of Never Lie, Never Steal; It Will Come Back to Bite You in the Butt Years Later.</p>
<p>hazmat...I think we have different beliefs in the human condition. I believe she could exist for 28 yrs. living her lie but also slowly be eaten alive by it. Did her guilt help lead her to her stand on "be yourself; don't embellish"?
It is an awesome study of personality and conflict.</p>
<p>She made a gigantic mistake.Yes.</p>
<p>I don't understand the sympathy here. A warm and caring individual? Hard time moving forward? Bad choices? A mistake? Excuse me, but some of the reactions here are amazing. It's next to impossible to find a decent role model for kids today. And we wonder why so many of them have, to put it lightly, a few problems here and there? Everyday I come to believe more and more that we, as a generation, have failed our kids. What she did and lived with for so many years is despicable. Period.</p>
<p><a href="...">quote=advantagious</a>your post, WashDad, reminds me of what a lot of people post when someone asks what they should do about a friend who has cheated. "A lot of people cheat"..."What's the big deal"..."Mind your own business"..."They just made a mistake". Cheating DOES and SHOULD, if not invalidate, at least taint the offenders work/life. (...)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Good points. I wasn't trying to make the argument that her actions should not have consequences. If I were her boss at MIT, I would have asked for her immediate resignation (if the facts were as reported). I was trying to make the smaller argument that a major sin does not necessarily erase all previous positive contributions.</p>
<p>There is no reason to feel "sad" for her. She seemed to have no problem with it for the past few decades. I see nothing sad about a liar and hypocrite finally getting her comeuppance. </p>
<p>Instead, feel sad for those starry-eyed applicants and for those people in the admissions office who trusted and believed in her rhetoric. Feel sad for her innocent family and friends who now hang their heads in shame.</p>
<p>She didn't just live with her lie while it quietly ate at her. She lived with her lie as she went out and publicly spoke about presenting yourself honestly, the importance of being yourself, and not doing things "just to impress".</p>
<p>The hypocrisy was constant (and impressive!).</p>