MIT Admissions Dean warns About College Entrance Stress

Parents Forum
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<p>I don't think that this article has been posted - in any case, I can't find any reference to it anywhere and so I suspect it may have fallen between the cracks in the wake of the Harvard early decision announcement. I like the image of Marilee Jones' as being "on fire" when it comes to this subject. I find her wake up call to be compassionate, vigorous, and clear sighted and applaud her boldness to break with tradition and convention to voice her professional opinion not just as an admissions officer but as a mother. </p>

<p>From what I read on CC these days, I suspect that this year we will be bombarded with a frenzy of articles dealing with the related subjects of college admission stress and an overhaul of the admissions process. </p>

<p>"The quest for perfection ``is making our children sick,'' the MIT dean of admissions told a recent gathering of college admissions professionals in Boston. She means it literally, snapping off statistics on the increase in ulcers, anxiety disorders and control disorders such as cutting and anorexia.

Kids aren't supposed to be finished,'' she said.They're partial. They're raw. That's why we're in the business.'' "

" College officials have been slower to see it as a problem _ though, finally, that may be changing. A group of presidents from prominent colleges has been talking behind the scenes about possible steps to ``lower the flame'' _ to use the buzz phrase _ surrounding colleges admissions."

The phone calls from parents seemed more frequent, and pushier. And Jones grew increasingly worried about the applications that crossed her desk. The students were remarkably accomplished, but she worried the resume rat race had quashed creativity. Would future MIT graduates make world-changing discoveries, she wondered, or merely execute the discoveries of others?

You don't see the kind of wild innovation from individuals you used to see,'' Jones said over lunch during a recent interview.You see a lot of group and team projects overseen by professionals, but you don't see the kind of rogue, interesting stuff that we used to see at MIT.''

"MIT faculty told her many students just weren't much fun to teach. The issue of perfectionism had been brought painfully to the fore at MIT by a series of student suicides. Students want to do everything right, they want to know exactly what's on the test,'' faculty told her.They're so afraid of failing or stepping out of line, that they're not really good students.''

Meanwhile, Jones was starting to see the college admissions process _ the mailings, the emphasis on activities, the pressure to apply early-decision _ through the eyes of her daughter.

When she was in sixth or seventh grade, I was every bit as bad as the parents I'm talking about,'' Jones says.`Little by little, I started watching her get affected by that pressure, and I realized that that pressure came from me.''</p>

<p><a href="http://www.wtic.com/pages/81338.php?contentType=4&contentId=203332%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.wtic.com/pages/81338.php?contentType=4&contentId=203332&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>She's been making this pitch for years. Her daughter attends one of the best surburban and most competitive schools in the country.</p>

3

<p>There was a Boston Globe article about 3 years ago where she came out and said the exact same thing -- too much pressure on the high school students. </p>

<p>I'm not an MIT expert, but I really don't see what MIT has done about the frenzy in the past three years. And I may be wrong, but I thought the MIT application wants applicants to specifically identify whether their awards/recognition were local, regional, state, national, perhaps international. I think that is intimidating -- suggesting that applicants should have widely recognized accomplishments and more localized ones perhaps aren't good enough. </p>

<p>It would have been a positive thing if MIT had taken more action in the past few years to reduce the pressure cooker environment of college applications. Maybe we will see something concrete happening now.</p>

4

<p>Is the 2006 version any less hypocritical than last year's? </p>

<p>Here's a novel thought for MIT, and things she COULD TRY doing instead of merely talking about it: send a clear message that MIT will not consider anything that is not expected from "regular students" and limit the number of academic "credits" to a decent amount. </p>

<p>Every year, students are trying to increase their chances by accumulating awards for the SOLE purpose of college admission. MIT circular logic is that they do NOT encourae this behavior but simply evaluate the files as they come. Well, they CAN change this by sending a CLEAR message that they will NOT consider this or that.</p>

<p>Schools have been successful in eliminating the batches of letters of recommendation or additional material they used to receive. Look at Stanford's application: they ASK students not to send extra material nor brag sheets and resumes. </p>

<p>If Marilee Jones wants the students to recover their summer and ... sanity, she only has to implement easy changes. It is, however, much, much simpler to talk about something than to make changes that require vision and courage. This situation is even sadder when one consider that MIT is a perfect place to show leadership, has extremely dedicated admission officers who could explain changes easily, and NOT lose anything in the quality of its applicant pool.</p>

5

<p>Wow, when I started typing my message and looking for the past discussion on CC, I really believed I would again be a solitary voice of dismay. :)</p>

<p>Here's the past discussion for reference:</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=125007%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=125007&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>I felt that MIT was sending mixed messages last year. Their application was changed to have less spots for activities in a supposed effort to ease up on
resume building yet when asked the admissions committee would say "send us everything you want us to see." It makes no sense.</p>

<p>The application should state everything they want and nothing else should be allowed. Especially in this engineering "answer the question" bastian.</p>

7

<p>And another one: </p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=126306%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=126306&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

8

<p>I agree with xiggi for a change. Yada! Yada!</p>

<p>Until adcoms are ready and willing to take the foot of their accelerator and admit a sizable percentage of "normal" students, their talk is meaningless. And that isn't going to happen in our lifetimes.</p>

9

<p>I'm somewhat confused as to what MIT is not doing to make college applications a more sane process.</p>

<p>MIT admissions officers keep weblogs (Matt</a> McGann, Ben</a> Jones), and Ben Jones is a frequent poster on this forum, answering any questions students may have about the application or the application process. They are remarkably open about the selection process, and it is described in many places on the blogs.</p>

<p>The admissions officers have explicitly stated in several places that test scores are only one piece of their admissions process, and that scores "with a 7 in front of them" are considered equally with perfect 800s.</p>

<p>The MIT application has a space to write anything the applicant feels had not been adequately explained in the rest of the application. If the applicant feels that any part of the application is unclear, or that he or she has not been represented fairly, this space is provided.</p>

<p>In the application, there are five spaces to write important extracurriculars. Students are neither required nor encouraged to send a built-up brag sheet.</p>

<p>I had the privilege to work with the MIT admissions office in various capacities over the past year, and I found them to be full of integrity and purpose. They don't encourage students to be mindless academic automatons -- you can take one look at the MIT student body to see that. MIT admissions officers look for a fit with MIT rather than perfect scores or grades.</p>

<p>As Ben Jones said himself on</a> this forum:


</p>

<p>I will also note that I was a completely normal kid in high school, as were my friends at MIT. I did marching band over the summers. My fiance worked on roofs for his father's construction company. Between the two of us, we took the SAT three times and had six AP classes. He ran cross-country and track; I starred in the school musical. What's abnormal about that?</p>

10

<p>I think she just feels guilty. She is aware of the problem and realizes that she is one of the major causes thereof.</p>

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<p>What cracks me up is that you guys think Marilee can just decide to do whatever she wants at MIT and - bam - it's implemented just like that. I'm sure she'd love to explore a lot the stuff you've mentioned up there, but perhaps you might consider that there are other powers at play, many of whom have a lot more power and control than she does. Unless you guys have personal experience working in a highly selective institution, dealing on a daily basis with the politics thereof, might I suggest that you refrain from passing judgment so flippantly.</p>

12

<p>
[quote]
I think she just feels guilty

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I also wonter if her offspring may not totally measure up to hers or MIT's standards. </p>

<p>Not a bad thing. Not all kids get the same abilities. Not all kids of Ivy parents or Ivy employees or Ivy profs have the abilities to get into an Ivy.</p>

13

<p>"What cracks me up is that you guys think Marilee can just decide to do whatever she wants at MIT and - bam - it's implemented just like that. I'm sure she'd love to explore a lot the stuff you've mentioned up there, but perhaps you might consider that there are other powers at play, many of whom have a lot more power and control than she does. Unless you guys have personal experience working in a highly selective institution, dealing on a daily basis with the politics thereof, might I suggest that you refrain from passing judgment so flippantly."</p>

<p>Ben, since I "almost" corner the marker on flippant remarks and easy judgments, I'd like to answer what prompts me to post such commentary. </p>

<p>First, this is forum where people can express their opinion without fear of retaliation or fear of ruining their chances of admission. At least one would hope that it's the case, in spite of some rumors to the contrary. Further one can express an opinion that might hurt feelings, and do so without losing a iota of the tremendous respect for an institution, its faculty, or its admission officers. Might I suggest that the negative commentaries are more an expression of disappointment than hollow criticism. </p>

<p>I also think we DO realize that wholesale changes are not easy to implement, and that palace politics are a day-to-day reality at our most prestigious institutions. Yet, that should not stop the public at large or interested obervers to notice the lack of step in the direction that is seemingly advocated by the Dean of Admissions. This is also exacerbated by the fact that one may have a reasonable expectation that leading institutions remain leaders and innovators. Nobody ever said it was easy to be a leader, and as the Dutch say, "Tall trees catch most the wind," and often too much criticism or too much credit.</p>

<p>For what it is worth, I remain convinced that MIT and numerous other schools DO have the ability to send clear messages that could HELP diminish the often decried frenzy that plagues families in high school. And, for the record, I remain convinced that the messages SHOULD emenate from the schools, and not from self-anointed Jeremiah or platform-building carpenters.</p>

<p>The rules of admissions are created by the schools, and they should be not be mere reactions that "what is out there." The students, families, and ... packagers are the one reacting to the messages sent by the schools. </p>

<p>Respectfully,</p>

<p>C</p>

14

<p>Hi Xiggi,</p>

<p>I couldn't agree with you more. But your points do not justify any of these petty personal attacks against Marilee - and her daughter.</p>

<p>Here is a woman who spends the majority of her waking hours trying to change this machine. People in this thread are beating her up for her inability to make things at MIT "perfect" (conveniently ignoring all of the things she has accomplished here) and completely overlooking all the work she's done beyond MIT to try to make this whole system better. 100+ nights a year on the road in 100 different cities talking to parents and counselors. Teaming up with the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia to write a book on the subject. The list goes on and on.</p>

<p>The people in this thread are spewing their bile with no concept of what they're actually talking about. How pathetic to take shots at the one admissions dean who is probably on your side more than any other.</p>

15

<p>"What cracks me up is that you guys think Marilee can just decide to do whatever she wants at MIT and - bam - it's implemented just like that. I'm sure she'd love to explore a lot the stuff you've mentioned up there, but perhaps you might consider that there are other powers at play, many of whom have a lot more power and control than she does."</p>

<p>Are you suggesting that the "other powers at play" like it the way it is:</p>

<p><code>You don't see the kind of wild innovation from individuals you used to see,'' Jones said over lunch during a recent interview.</code>You see a lot of group and team projects overseen by professionals, but you don't see the kind of rogue, interesting stuff that we used to see at MIT.''</p>

<p>"MIT faculty told her many students just weren't much fun to teach."</p>

<p>Or that she is simply wrong in her assessment?</p>

<p>(I didn't mean that to come out rhetorically - I'm very interested in the answer. I have a friend who shall remain unnamed who resigned as associate head of an admissions department at one of the "prestige" schools several years ago who told me that "every year the average SAT scores go up. Every year we reject more qualified applicants. And each year we get more complaints from the faculty that the classrooms are increasingly dead.")</p>

16

<p>
[quote]
<code>You don't see the kind of wild innovation from individuals you used to see,'' Jones said over lunch during a recent interview.</code>You see a lot of group and team projects overseen by professionals, but you don't see the kind of rogue, interesting stuff that we used to see at MIT.''

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Intel, anyone?</p>

<p>Lots of high school science teachers and college profs have been beating the drum about the importance of doing science collaboratively. And now MIT profs, of all people, are complaining about group projects?</p>

<p>Don't get me wrong: I know Marilee Jones cannot single-handedly change the culture at MIT, let alone other colleges, or at her D's school whose pressure cooker atmosphere is replicated at scores of other surburban high schools. But the quote above strikes me as a good illustration of different parts of the same institution speaking from different scripts.</p>

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<p><a href="I%20didn't%20mean%20that%20to%20come%20out%20rhetorically%20-%20I'm%20very%20interested%20in%20the%20answer.%20I%20have%20a%20friend%20who%20shall%20remain%20unnamed%20who%20resigned%20as%20associate%20head%20of%20an%20admissions%20department%20at%20one%20of%20the" title="prestige" schools several years ago who told me that "every year the average SAT scores go up. Every year we reject more qualified applicants. And each year we get more complaints from the faculty that the classrooms are increasingly dead.">quote</a>

[/quote]
</p>

<p>My high school teaching husband would make the same observations about his students that the profs were making about theirs. Although his points would be a little different - the students are less well prepared and engaged, but more interested in grades. At some point, you may ask is the problem with the students or the teachers? Wherever the problem is, our society needs to address it.</p>

18

<p>It seems to me that everyone who has posted on this thread is genuinely concerned with the admissions process and the stress it places on students. Instead of sniping at each other, or feeling that we need to defend ourselves, how about some constructive brainstorming. All of us have been in the trenches in one way or another, our collective life experiences and collective wisdom must be fairly extensive. If you were asked to sit on a committee charged with helping Marilee Jones to achieve a less stressful application process what would you suggest?</p>

<p>Here are two of mine:</p>

<p>1) Jones and MIT often speak of the importance of bringing "transparency" to the process. I applaud them for this but I also challenge them to go further. One area where I think they cvould and should easily add some needed transparency to the process is reporting SAT scores. Instead of the averages that are currently reported, I would like to see the SAT scores of accepted students broken down by reported race and I would also like to see a separate average reported for recruited athletes.</p>

<p>2) I would like to see a consortium of the most selective institutions consider using the "match" format. The biggest obstacle to this is probably financial aid awards. However, I would also like to see an outside clearinghouse administer financial aid. There would be a common (and published) formula for all of the institutions in the consortium That way students could truly chose their college without considering differing aid awards and differing types of awards (grant vs. loan).</p>

<p>Care to join in with your ideas?</p>

19

<p>Re: post 17:</p>

<p>And this is precisely the problem with pushing a purely "meritocratic" system, based almost exclusively on GPAs and SATs.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I would like to see the SAT scores of accepted students broken down by reported race and I would also like to see a separate average reported for recruited athletes.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Amen. </p>

<p>If students could actually see the stats for their specific pile of applications, it would bring a healthy dose of realism to the party.</p>

<p>The current system causes the most stress-filled cohort of applicants -- from white, affluent communities -- to misjudge their admissions chances. "I'm in the middle range of the school's SATs, so I have a decent shot, right?"</p>

<p>Even worse, by only publishing the overall scores, they discourage the applicants they most want to attract -- lower income or first generation college or URM applicants who have lower SAT scores. "Wow, MIT's median SAT scores are 1500, I'd never have a prayer."</p>

<p>If applicants really understood that they are competing only for specific slots and that the threshold for each type of slot may be different, the system would be a lot more transparent.</p>

<p>Why don't the schools make it transparent? Because the resulting uproar would be deafening.</p>

<p>This is why my mantra to all prospective applicants and parents is Read "The Gatekeepers".</p>

<p>BTW, I think Ben Jones makes a legitimate point. Based on the diversity (ethnic and socio-economic) of the MIT class and the effort of the admissions staff to make the process a bit more human, MIT does deserve some credit for trying.</p>