MIT Admissions Have Become A Complete Joke

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</p>

<p>See, my entire argument was centered around the fact that I do value the college experience here. In fact, I'll go so far as to say I value it more because of the unique experiences I've had. There's a lot to do at MIT and I think the one thing my application demonstrated, more than anything else, is that I will take advantage of all of it, rather than just go to lecture, do psets, repeat. You can get an education anywhere, how does MIT know you'll make the MOST of yours?</p>

<p>Okey doke, here's the official word on MIT alums currently in the admissions office, direct from the source, not from concentrate:
[ul]
[<em>]Stu, class of '86, course 2
[</em>]Matt, class of '00, course 15
[<em>]McGreggor, class of '00, course 7 and course 21A
[</em>]Marisa, class of '02, course 6
[li]Mikey, class of '05, course 7[/li][/ul]
Marilee does not have an MBA from Sloan; she has a bachelor's and a master's in biology from RPI.</p>

<p>MIT faculty members who have been involved in the undergraduate admissions process in the past few years include Wolfgang Ketterle (Nobel Laureate), Sheila Widnall (former Secretary of the Air Force), and Paul Gray.</p>

<p>Sure, having been deferred and then waitlisted is most often enough to make you bitter about a school. But I don't understand the logic of jumping from that to suddenly hating the admissions policies of a school and feeling personally wronged. Do you think MIT should either Accept or Reject all Early Action Applicants? 300 acceptees and everyone else doesn't get a second look with the Regular Decision applicants? Or do you think MIT should abolish the waitlist? No way of assuring a consistent number of students per class (classes and labs and resources and dorms kind of depend on that)?</p>

<p>Or do you think MIT should set up a policy that all deferred applicants should be rejected instead of waitlisted? I thought the whole point was that whether you were deferred or not does not play a role in your decision (in fact, I'm not sure if they even retain this information). Would you rather have been rejected? </p>

<p>Then don't accept a place on the waitlist.</p>

<p>It just makes no sense to me. Getting deferred and then waitlisted makes you pretty unlucky (a couple of my highschool friends went through that with their first choice schools), but it doesn't make you a victim.</p>

<p>I also don't understand the hatred directed specifically at MIT. College admissions in general sucks, and it takes a long time. If you have any actual suggestions as to how to make the process move faster, trust me, I'm sure the admissions counselors would love to hear it.</p>

<p>But there is valuable information in the fact that so much anger is directed at MIT in particular about these things, and not at, say, Harvard, which is more coveted and has admissions policies at least as opaque. collegealum said it better than I can, but people have an idea that MIT is a bastion of intellectual purity (and people don't have any such ideas about Harvard or Yale). When MIT values someone who dances and writes wonky political essays over someone who is clearly a much smarter mathematician, MIT looks flaky and dumb -- basically like Brown or something. I think MIT becoming Brown (or even Harvard) makes people sad.</p>

<p>Also the fact that MIT is so dishonest is frustrating. People have no problem with Harvard because they basically have signs on their foreheads indicating that their admissions office is for sale. But MIT people will do the most awkward and ridiculous dance rather than simply admit that they give advantages based on skin color and gender to balance the class.</p>

<p>I think people generally expect less nonsense from MIT and are disappointed when in practice MIT is becoming just the same as any other self-serving huge school, except less straightforward about it.</p>

<p>I concede that there is a point being made about MIT's old image vs. its new admissions policies. But it's the same tired point that has been explained and debated for 17 pages. And I don't understand your claims that people consider Harvard and Yale bogus. I don't think I've ever seen anyone (ever) shrugged off because they went to "Harvard. pfft." Sure, their admissions policies are hard to grasp, but they're still top of the top in terms of reputation, student caliber, etc. I don't see anything wrong with what they are doing, and they're certainly not suffering for it. I think that's the inherent point the opposing is trying to make, that yeah, okay, things change, but what's the big deal? The change hasn't hurt MIT, it's made its students happier and its community more lively. It has its merits.</p>

<p>And MIT is dishonest? Compared to Harvard? When exactly did Harvard come out and say "We favor black people."? Come on, Ben. Even if that's exactly how admissions policies worked (blatant favoritism-- you know my opinion about that...), you're smart enough to know WHY it wouldn't work (on any political or social level) for a college to just out and SAY that. I don't believe Harvard has ever ever made any statement to that effect. In fact, I believe everything every AA college has ever said about AA is the exact same thing. It's so uniform it's practically scripted. And it's the only way to go.</p>

<p>WAIT, my original point though, to which Laura responded, had nothing to do with all this. I was just wondering why he antagonized the MIT admissions department for routine admissions procedures. You don't want to stand for the possibility of being deferred then waitlisted? Then don't apply to any college early and don't accept spots on waitlists. Easy.</p>

<p>"there is valuable information in the fact that so much anger
is directed at MIT in particular"</p>

<p>Thanks, Ben, yes.</p>

<p>It doesn't come from "hating MIT". It comes from really loving MIT.
The alums I talk to shake their heads sadly at the stuff that comes
out of the admissions office. The two really top girls in math and
science that I know hesitate to apply. Are they really producing a happier,
more lively community? Are they really trying to track satisfaction,
or are they just winging it?</p>

<p>It's not just disgruntled applicants.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Does this mean that those of us who have set going to MIT as our goal and do value the college experience there above other pursuits should be punished for trying to do what should have gotten us admitted, except for the apologist revisions to the admissions process at MIT? It's disgusting that this seems to be the case.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, let me put it to you this way. I know plenty of people who basically programmed their whole life to getting into Harvard...and didn't get in. Heck, many of them didn't even get onto the * wait-list *. </p>

<p>I said it before, I'll say it again. I don't know why we're singling out MIT when MIT admissions are still arguably more meritocratic than that of peer schools like the Ivies or Stanford. The notion that MIT's admissions may be less meritocratic than they were in the past seems irrelevant because nobody is talking about using a time machine to try to get admitted to MIT in a previous point in time. All you can do is try to get admitted to MIT * today * vs. getting admitted to a peer school like an Ivy or Stanford * today *.</p>

<p>I agree that the guy who was deferred and then waitlisted doesn't have a particular gripe against MIT. But the fact that basically no other school has 17-page anti-admissions threads says that the frustration over routine (which is everywhere) is here being mixed with frustration over substance (which seems unique to MIT).</p>

<p>As for honesty, I agree that the variation in what admissions officials say is tiny tiny. But, [url="<a href="http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:vSOELP3Rz7gJ:www.pulitzer.org/year/2004/beat-reporting/works/beat3.html+fitzsimmons+%22minority+students%22+%22affirmative+action%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us%22%5Dhere's%5B/url"&gt;http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:vSOELP3Rz7gJ:www.pulitzer.org/year/2004/beat-reporting/works/beat3.html+fitzsimmons+%22minority+students%22+%22affirmative+action%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us"]here's[/url&lt;/a&gt;] something from Bill Fitzsimmons (on another issue)
[quote]
Asked how he defends a policy so little rooted in merit, Mr. Fitzsimmons says that the school's alumni "volunteer an immense amount of their free time in recruiting students, raising money for their financial aid, taking part in Harvard Club activities at the local level, and in general promoting the college." He adds, "They often bring a special kind of loyalty and enthusiasm for life at the college that makes a real difference in the college climate ... and makes Harvard a happier place." Therefore, he says, "when their sons and daughters apply, we review their applications with great care and will give a 'tip' in the admissions process to them."

[/quote]
</p>

<p>MIT never talks about "tip" factors, as far as I know, though it's clear as day they're there. MIT is too pure and person-focused for tip factors, except not really.</p>

<p>As for comparing MIT now to MIT in the past, I agree it's not like you can apply to MIT in 1960, but it's sad to see a place that used to do it right mess up. We would be more upset if the US slipped into military dictatorship than if Cuba did, only because Cuba's already there.</p>

<p>Re pebbles on Harvard. </p>

<p>
[quote]
I don't think I've ever seen anyone (ever) shrugged off because they went to "Harvard. pfft." Sure, their admissions policies are hard to grasp, but they're still top of the top in terms of reputation, student caliber, etc.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I know people who turned down Harvard at various stages in their academic careers (top to bottom) at least in part for that reason. An important subset of people will always have more respect for the old MIT way of doing things and will value places that haven't flaked out. It's just not true that Harvard doesn't pay costs for its bogus way of doing some things. Yes, Harvard is good, but it could be better if it cut through some of the crap.</p>

<p>MIT's grasping imitation of Harvard reminds me of the way some people try to get into an elite social clique by imitating the worst habits of its leaders. That's just not very classy.</p>

<p>
[quote]
It doesn't come from "hating MIT". It comes from really loving MIT.
The alums I talk to shake their heads sadly at the stuff that comes
out of the admissions office. The two really top girls in math and
science that I know hesitate to apply. Are they really producing a happier,
more lively community? Are they really trying to track satisfaction,
or are they just winging it?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Look, whenever any university changes, some old alums are going to be disgruntled. That's just the nature of the game. For example, Harvard is more meritocratic than it was in the past, and in particular, admits far fewer subpar legacy admits, and that has served to tick off a lot of old Harvard alumni, especially those alumni whose kids now can't get into Harvard. I gather from talking to people that both MIT and Caltech are probably easier schools than they were in the past and that has also served to greatly annoy the alumni of both schools. As MIT has boosted its offerings of 'softer' social sciences, I'm sure that that has annoyed some old alumni who wanted MIT to remain a purely technical school. Heck I once ran into an old alumni who was criticizing why MIT even bothers to teach a soft subject like political science, and even advocated that the department should never have been started and should be shut down, even though the department is now the #10 ranked graduate poli-sci department in the country.</p>

<p>Look, I agree that alumni are stakeholders in a university. The problem is that they are conservative stakeholders by their very nature, and hence tend to be forces that serve to impede change. You have to balance the interests of old stakeholders like the alumni with that of future stakeholders such as the future students. Anytime you ever do anything different, you tend to tick off the old alumni. But what's the alternative? Never changing at all? Always doing exactly the same thing over and over again? </p>

<p>
[quote]
When MIT values someone who dances and writes wonky political essays over someone who is clearly a much smarter mathematician,

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, speaking of preferring somebody who 'writes wonky political essays' over a clearly much smarter mathematician, what's wrong with that? Like I said above, MIT is trying to build up a strong political science department, and has largely succeeded in doing so. But you can't do that solely by bringing in strong poli-sci faculty. Ultimately, you have to also bring in appropriate students who are good at political science. Hence, that inevitably means that you will have to admit some students who, as you say, are good at writing wonky political essays over students who are good at math.</p>

<p>And in fact, MIT already uncontroversially engages in such a policy. Many (probably most) MIT Ph.D. poli-sci students are rather mediocre at math. For example, if I took some random MIT poli-sci Ph.D. students and pitted them against some random MIT undergrads (from any major) in a math competition, I'm quite sure that those Ph.D. students would lose miserably. But MIT admitted them anyway. At the same time, I'm sure the MIT math department rejects plenty of brilliant candidates for their PhD program. Hence, one could argue that perhaps MIT should shift resources such that the poli-sci department will admit fewer graduate students so that the math department can admit more.</p>

<p>The bottom line is, if MIT wants to become a powerhouse in political science, MIT will inevitably have to admit some students who are strong in political science at the expense of other areas. That's inevitable - as many of the best poli-sci students and best poli-sci professors at any of the top programs (Harvard, Stanford, etc.) are probably mediocre at math. That is, of course, presuming that you actually agree that MIT should be trying to become a major political-science school. If you actually believe that MIT shouldn't be trying to do this at all, and perhaps should shut down the poli-sci department entirely, then that's an entirely different discussion. But if that's what you believe, then you should just say so. Then at least we'd all know where you stand. </p>

<p>
[quote]
But there is valuable information in the fact that so much anger is directed at MIT in particular about these things, and not at, say, Harvard, which is more coveted and has admissions policies at least as opaque

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You just gave away the store right there, as you just admitted that Harvard's admissions policies are at least as opaque, * but are also more coveted*. Ask yourself - why exactly is Harvard more coveted? Maybe it is because their admissions policies gives them that added mystique, i.e. that nobody knows exactly what you need to do to get into Harvard, and that mystery adds to the allure? Furthermore, if MIT wants to compete toe-to-toe with Harvard, then maybe MIT feels that they have to match Harvard's admissions policies. Right now, Harvard wins all cross-admit battles with all schools. </p>

<p>Look, the truth is, from a prestige standpoint, all schools (MIT and Caltech included) play second-fiddle to Harvard. MIT and Caltech have played the 'purely meritocratic game' for decades, and Harvard hasn't, and look where it's gotten them. Like it or not, purely meritocratic admissions policies don't get you to #1. Similarly, like it or not, in life, the most meritocratic idea doesn't always win. You can design and develop the best product, and still fail in the market to a worse product that is promoted better or strategically positioned better. You can be the most productive worker in your company, and lose your job anyway because you lost out on some internal political batte. You can have the best ideas, and never have them implemented because somebody else more forcefully argues for a worse idea. Like it or not, that's life. </p>

<p>If MIT wants to make a serious run at Harvard, then MIT will need to make changes from the way it used to operate in the past. You never get better unless you change, yet change inevitably means ticking off people who liked the old ways better. But the alternative is to never change at all.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I agree that the guy who was deferred and then waitlisted doesn't have a particular gripe against MIT. But the fact that basically no other school has 17-page anti-admissions threads says that the frustration over routine (which is everywhere) is here being mixed with frustration over substance (which seems unique to MIT).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I would actually argue that having a long,multi-paged thread about a subject indicates that the subject is * up for debate*. After all, if everybody really agreed that MIT was doing something inappropriate, then there would be no debate about it, and hence, this thread would be mighty short. It is precisely because we don't seem to agree is what makes the thread so long.</p>

<p>
[quote]
especially those alumni whose kids now can't get into Harvard.

[/quote]
</p>

<p><em>cough</em> Byerly <em>cough</em> :p</p>

<p>==</p>

<p>Anyways, even if the schools diversity, can't they be known for making their social sciences more rigorous (as in, built on models that try to predict before making flawed assumptions? - this has really hurt the reputation of a lot of social science fields) than average? Isn't Chicago somewhat known for this?</p>

<p>I disagree that alums are a conservative force dragging down
innovation and change. MIT alums are by and large pleased with
the good things going on at MIT.</p>

<p>This thread isn't called why Open Course Ware is a complete joke...</p>

<p>or</p>

<p>Why MIT research is a complete joke...</p>

<p>MIT is still a research powerhouse, East Campus pranks continue to
be funny and annoying, Open Course Ware is brilliant and probably
WILL change the world. So many things about MIT are great and only
getting better. But admissions is a joke.</p>

<p>For example, from the blog about "the match": MIT is looking for
"good people" who "lobby to change "bad policy" and will "make the
world a better place". Really. This is so devoid of content. It's
marketing crap. Like the bad people who make bad policy and only
care about themselves are going to other universities? Because MIT
admissions can see into your heart?</p>

<p>This is feel-good slop and turns people off.</p>

<p>
[quote]
First, while pointless busywork certainly exists in abundance in most high school environment, it is not accurate to classify all assignments in high school as busywork. You seem to be expressing the view (which I've seen more than once in this thread and others) that any time a supposedly intelligent student gets a bad grade it's because they were too busy with research/other lofty, high-minded pursuits to be bothered with doing their homework. Even if this is true, I don't believe that high school students, genius-level or not, always have enough experience and maturity to be able to correctly judge when work is pointless. Many times in basic chem I felt that the textbook assignments were pointless and repetitive, but looking back I can tell that doing them helped me become a lot more competent at the subject.</p>

<p>Also, you then proceed to give more excuses for admits with bad grades that go completely against the prior argument. If a class is graded mostly on one or two tests (like, hmm, many university courses are), then busywork can't possibly be a factor in a student doing poorly. High schools are not filled with unreasonable teachers who fail sick students, and when people say they studied the wrong thing it usually means they didn't study at all.</p>

<p>The issue with this mentality of excusing student performance for some ethereal reasons about their quirkiness or personality is that it wrongs every student who grit his teeth and worked hard to get good grades and good scores. If MIT is looking for hard-working students who can survive in a tough science/math-oriented atmosphere, I don't know why they (or you) are making so many excuses for people who frankly seem unreliable and flaky. Maybe some excuses actually have reasons behind them, but I can't accept that it's a good policy to ignore hard-working, obviously intelligent students in favor of gut feelings.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The comment towards "sick days/bad days" was unrelated to the rest of my argument, I know. It's just another possible explanation for isolated B's. My argument was that in math/science classes, isolated B's should not be treated as too much of a hindrance (but in the MIT applicant pools, people's math/science GPAs only really differ on whether an applicant has isolated B's or not). Now, on the other hand, if the student has more B's, then the argument fails to apply. Then another argument needs to be made if and only if the student has demonstrated his potential via other means (for the students who have nothing else, they must go by grades/test scores).</p>

<p>There is a logical fallacy that many people make - that grades should matter just because people are "supposed" to get high grades. But in reality, grades have fiat value. The only reason why they matter is that they provide a means of comparison between students who can't distinguish themselves in other ways (in other words, the vast majority of students in the US). You can use grades to compare between two mediocre students who want to go to a college.</p>

<p>But if a student has demonstrated exceptional achievement elsewhere, has put a lot of hard work and effort into it (thus demonstrating that he has a good work ethic, just applied elsewhere) and has lots of B's, do those B's say anything about the student's intelligence or work ethic? No if (a) the student has demonstrated aptitude by other means and if (b) the student has demonstrated that he has worked persistently on another endeavour. Since aptitude and work ethic can be demonstrated by other means by certain groups of individuals, they have no need to show their aptitude and work ethic by means of grades.</p>

<p>Yes, most intelligent students will be able to finish math/science busywork in a limited amount of time (unless it's for a stupid "project"). Nonetheless, as I previously said, time is AT a premium during high school. Maybe the student CAN put off studying while he has to work on his Intel Project, and then study for the course later. At least the AP exams don't force you to go at a pre-determined pace. And apparently in any case, high school grades are usually meaningless compared with AP exam grades since (I'm making an assumption) more people get A's in their high school courses than they get 5's on the exam (this may be incorrect for the Calculus BC exam - with 40% of students getting a 5 though).</p>

<p>Even then, many math/science classes have alternative methods of grading. Some people don't need to work through 10s of homework problems to actually learn the material. However, schools often assume that they do.</p>

<p>One of the problems is inherent within the educational system at hand - the assumption that all students should learn "material X" in "Y amount of time", when in reality, people can learn the same material at widely difference paces of time.</p>

<p>On a side note, IF colleges change their admissions policies to become somewhat more holistic - then it may encourage students to actually pursue studying/extra-curriculars on their own - studying that can cause a dent in someone's GPA (like it did for Olo's). Those students are pursuing something that they can actually remember. As we know all so well - many students forget a huge amount of material from their classes - even the better students among them. Of what use is History if there is another way that one can communicate one's thoughts? Of what use is literature? They're often taught to the neglect of the other social sciences. Not only that, but even when the social sciences are taught - they're taught at very low levels that would bore any student who should be capable of MIT/Caltech. If you want some backup for that statement of mine - just go and read Mankiw's latest economics book, or the latest undergrad psychology book.</p>

<p>But what if college admissions policies are purely stats-based? Then it will discourage people from actually choosing to do anything outside of school. Yes, the internally motivated people will find means to pursue their passion otherwise. But a lot of people were initially externally motivated to learn more about the field, before they developed any internal motivation in the field. Math competitions are a form of external motivation, but yet people still gain a lot out of them. </p>

<p>The fact of the matter is - colleges can modify student behavior by changing the standards of acceptance, so to speak.</p>

<p>"The fact of the matter is - colleges can modify student behavior
by changing the standards of acceptance, so to speak."</p>

<p>Do you really think kids were going to be bad people, but now that
MIT says it wants "good people", they are going to change and try to
be good? Parents weren't trying to raise good kids all along?</p>

<p>sakky says:

[quote]
Right now, Harvard wins all cross-admit battles with all schools.

[/quote]

First, you're wrong. Harvard wins a majority of cross-admit battles with any given school. And only for undergrads! In some graduate departments they get whooped soundly some years, even in traditionally top programs like economics.</p>

<p>sakky says:

[quote]
Look, the truth is, from a prestige standpoint, all schools (MIT and Caltech included) play second-fiddle to Harvard. MIT and Caltech have played the 'purely meritocratic game' for decades, and Harvard hasn't, and look where it's gotten them.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The other thing, dear sakky, you measure everything by prestige, but that's absurd and meaningless. If you pretend that nothing came out of Harvard after 1950, you wouldn't lose much, but if you had shut down MIT or Stanford in 1950, the world would be a much poorer place. Prestige is for navel-gazing fools. Serious people hate the nonsense way.</p>

<p>As for why Harvard keeps winning cross admit battles, it's simple. Prestige is a self-perpetuating thing. People who aren't sure which place is better for them, or even those who are only weakly committed elsewhere, let prestige break the tie, which perpetuates the cross-admit numbers. The effect is especially strong since most high school students really have no idea what they want, and so there are a lot on the margin. That nonsense isn't indicative of any true quality. I've thought about these issues carefully since I've now twice turned down the place.</p>

<p>Finally, popularity isn't everything, and the market isn't always right. Consider beta vs. VHS, silly sakky.</p>

<p>I feel like I've said this often enough for it to be my motto, but it seems like no one has figured it out yet, so I'll just repeat it again:</p>

<p>There's more to life than test scores.</p>

<p>I'd go on, but ironically enough you'd just look down on me for being good at writing "long, wonky, political essays" which is exactly what every last one of you is doing right now. You must all suck pretty bad at science. Life's funny that way, huh?</p>

<p>
[quote]
First, you're wrong. Harvard wins a majority of cross-admit battles with any given school. And only for undergrads! In some graduate departments they get whooped soundly some years, even in traditionally top programs like economics.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>When I say "all cross-admit battles", I meant that they win the majority against EVERY school. Not of course that they get 100% of every single person they ever admit (that would be ridiculous).</p>

<p>I think you can also tell that I am strictly talking about undergrad. </p>

<p>{In fact, this is one of the things that I dislike about posting on CC - that first of all people will complain that my posts are too long and too detailed, but then when I try to shorten my posts, other people start complaining that I didn't talk about a certain detail. So basically, I can't win.}</p>

<p>
[quote]
The other thing, dear sakky, you measure everything by prestige

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Wrong. * I * don't measure things by prestige. * The market * measures things by prestige. Prestige is basically a way to eliminate market information asymmetries, something that I'm sure you are well aware of. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Finally, popularity isn't everything, and the market isn't always right. Consider beta vs. VHS, silly sakky.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Ah, so you bring up the beta vs. VHS case, eh? That is a case that is far less clear-cut than you imply. There is widespread disagreement within the literature regarding whether beta was in fact the 'superior' technology that supposedly lost to the better-marketed VHS standard, as the myth goes. The definitive work of the VHS Betamax story is probably Cusumano, Mylonadis, and Rosenbloom in * Business History Review <a href="1992">/i</a>. Consider the following quotes:</p>

<p>"Compared to Sony, Matsu*<strong><em>a
introduced both less and more expensive VCRs between 1978 and
1981 and manufactured about twice the number of model types
Sony produced during the same time period (see Appendixes B
and D). Other marketing measures helped VHS firms overcome
Sony's image for high quality and reliability; for example, RCA and Matsu</em></strong>*a (which marketed Panasonic and Quasar brands in the
United States) both offered an extended labor warranty for their
machines."</p>

<p>"JVC, which had less experience making VCRs than
Sony, paid special attention to making its VCR easy to manufacture
and service by creating a relatively simple, low-cost design
with fewer components and assembly steps than the Betamaxcharacteristics
that also appealed to companies wishing to license a
VCR for in-house manufacturing. In contrast, although Sony had
the manufacturing expertise to produce the Betamax economically,
potential licensees appeared concerned over their ability to mass
produce the Beta design."</p>

<p>"A large part of the VHS advantage came from the sheer ability
to deliver more VHS machines than Beta producers could make
early on in the competition."</p>

<p>Hence, the literature seems to reveal that betamax was not really the superior technology to VHS when you consider all of the dimensions of superiority, and if anything, it was actually VHS that was the 'superior' technology, at least on the dimensions that ultimately mattered - namely ease of manufacture and ease of licensing. Those advantages dwarfed whatever advantages betamax may have had in terms of picture quality. Essentially, the market tipped to VHS because manufacturers thought it would be simpler and cheaper to produce, ultimately causing more manufacturers to side with JVC and against Sony, which therefore caused more content manufacturers to encode in the VHS standard, which encouraged more manufacturers to support VHS, etc. </p>

<p>But the point is, silly Ben, you really shouldn't use the VHS vs. Beta example to illustrate a supposedly 'better' technology losing out, especially if you're going to become a business economist, because there is no clear evidence that Beta was really the overall 'better' technology.</p>

<p>Well, to be fair, Ben, I don't think sakky is some champion of popular opinion. He's just trying to point out that prestige is indeed a factor and is a trickle-down effect of what, yes, each school HAS quite solidly produced. It's not completely measureless. </p>

<p>Sure, prestige-whoring is a silly thing, but so is doing the exact opposite: NOT going somewhere to prove a point. I mean, I didn't like the school so I didn't apply to it. If you hate what they do and speak out strongly against it and such, why apply to it just to turn it down?</p>