<p>Collegealum I think the work the students and Profs are doing at MIT is inspiring they dont need PR leave that for the 'legacy lovers' at the other schools- they need the help in the PR dept.</p>
<p>I've slugged through this thread and now have a headache. The Cal Tech vs. MIT competition seems fierce. I think my son might have a chance at admission but I don't think we could afford it and I'm not sure he would be happy at either place, from the descriptions of them both.</p>
<p>He is a very balanced kid who is great at math and loves sports and music too. He has a perfect GPA, about 4.2 weighted, 4.0 not, a 36 ACT, a 232 PSAT, and have wondered if he should retake SAT. With no prep and a late night band contest the night before, he got a 2290, 800 math, 750 writing, 740 critical reading. He seemed to fit the numbers at either place but I didn't think he would have any hope at money. We are very middle class. He also attends a small midwestern public high school, where only AP opportunities are over the internet. His high school has about 480 students, and he is first in his class.</p>
<p>Would a kid like that, who is not nerdy at all, definitely shy and not a partier, but interested in things like sports and music, be happy at either of these schools? Am I wrong and the small public high school would make them not even consider him even though his numbers are OK? He is working as a camp counselor this summer and we have little time for visits. He was wanting to visit at least MIT, but now I'm wondering if a normal kid like him would fit in at all. It's not like he spends his days designing fighter planes or something, he'd rather shoot hoops or play tennis with his brother and friends.</p>
<p>There are two important issues to consider. One is if english and the arts are very important to your son. I know your son is in a band, but that's not quite the same thing as what I'm talking about. Does the idea of a liberal arts environment appeal to your son? Even though you can take Harvard classes and MIT has good profs in the humanities, MIT still <em>feels</em> like a pretty techy place.</p>
<p>The other issue is how he feels about the campus. Some people are totally turned off by MIT's campus. Others don't care about aesthetics. If your son's ideal college environment is a place like Amherst, he will be probably be very unhappy at a place like mit.</p>
<p>I'm not sure what to say about the workload...I think the style of teaching feels very different at Caltech/mit versus peer schools that are liberal arts universities. The firehose technique at CalTech/mit may not be the best for your son even if he does want to be an intense student.</p>
<p>Thanks for the info. He definitely is more interested in math, science, engineering, as subjects and careers, he just has other interests in his life. He loves to read, but hates English class, so I don't think he really is interested in a LAC kind of place. On the other hand, when he has down time, he would rather do something active then play video games or something. I take it nobody at these schools likes to go out and shoot hoops or play music or do anything that is not utilizing the math/science side of their brains? i don't think he is that into how a place looks, just more that he will fit in and find people with common interests. He has no problem with workloads, he is very disciplined, and as I said, not interested in the party scene. However, physical activity is a must for him. A lot about Notre Dame appeals to him except that they do not appear to be that strong in the areas he is interested in majoring in, either the sciences or engineering.</p>
<p>Crazy mom,</p>
<p>Don't believe all of the hype. There are a lot of kids just like your son at MIT (and I presume Caltech). There is a small minority of kids who get most of the press. Frankly, "Bob built a fission reactor in his bedroom" just makes a better headline than "Bob is a nice kid who likes sports". Most kids at MIT are for want of a better word "normal".</p>
<p>For example, most of the MIT students get involved in MIT's extensive Intramural program in 19 sports with tiered levels from A ("we are good enough to play intercollegiately, but instead/also we play for an IM team) to D ("we are mostly incompetent at this but we'll give it a bash"). Indeed watching an D-level IM ice hockey game is a fine spectator sport for comedy alone. Most people play at B or C level. And when I say most, I do mean it literally. Most of the campus plays rather than a small minority.</p>
<p>This is really the purpose of the visit, if you can manage it. It's really about walking around, talking to people, and trying to figure out "Do I feel comfortable here?". When I visited, I sat in on a number of literature and philosophy classes. I figured that the tech would be excellent, but I had a misplaced concern about the humanities subjects (which were by and large also excellent).</p>
<p>There is a rivalry between MIT and Caltech, which is tempered somewhat by the fact that the two schools are very far away from each other. There is also a more muted rivalry between MIT and Harvard (which is tempered somewhat by the cross-registration program).</p>
<p>At this level, picking a school is all about match. I went to MIT and a close friend of mine from High School went a mile down the road to Harvard. We got together socially a few times and yet, when I was in the Harvard buildings the school always felt a little bit pretentious in a way that made me slightly uncomfortable. By contrast my friend felt similarly about MIT, but was completely comfortable at Harvard. </p>
<p>As to getting in, being from a small public high school won't count against you, indeed, it might count in your favour. As to money, the way that the MIT Financial Aid office works is to figure out exactly what you can afford and to demand all of that, and then to make up the rest in aid. I consider myself solidly middle-class and I could not have afforded to go to MIT without the aid. The FA office is based around the idea that if the admissions office indicated that they wanted a particular young man or woman, then the FA office has to ensure that they can afford to attend. That being said, when I said that they asked for all we could afford, but no more, they did ask for all we could afford.</p>
<p>Try to pick the school where they feel happy, and (almost) all of the rest of it is irrelevant. You are picking not just a school but a home for four years. Good luck with your search,</p>
<p>I take exception to collegealum314's
[quote]
Some people are totally turned off by MIT's campus. Others don't care about aesthetics.
[/quote]
I do care about aesthetics and I do not dislike MIT's campus. I accept freely that it has a very different look and feel to an Amherst or a Wesleyan, but that make it different, not worse.</p>
<p>Indeed there are some very beautiful buildings at MIT, as anyone who has stood inside the MIT chapel can attest.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I do care about aesthetics and I do not dislike MIT's campus.
[/quote]
I will second Mikalye's comment. And there are some parts of MIT's campus that are uniquely beautiful even in a "traditional college campus" sense.</p>
<p>Thanks Mikalye. I'm sure you were in the same dilemma as we are, he can get a free ride several places, so if we are going to forgo his little brother's braces or something else to send him to MIT, we sure want to make sure he will be happy there. Just even doing the college visits is expensive enough. Thanks for your help.</p>
<p>Crazy mom, I have a rising senior and freshman at MIT. My oldest spends a lot of time programming (he's a CS major and programs for fun), but he's taken ice skating, snow skiing (twice) and springboard diving. He also plays a lot of ultimate frisbee, is on a dodge ball team, runs along the Charles for exercise, and plays some basketball. He plays a little guitar in his spare time and listens to a lot of music. He has a smart, funny and beautiful girlfriend (MIT student).</p>
<p>Youngest son will be very involved in non-varsity athletics, especially soccer, basketball and ultimate frisbee. He hates to run but will be bringing a bike to explore Cambridge and Boston. He doesn't spend a lot of time on the computer because he's too busy doing other stuff. He's also planning on joining the marching band. (And he's looking for a smart, funny and beautiful girlfriend.)</p>
<p>Neither of my kids are 'partiers' although both enjoy being with friends, especially the youngest. Neither is interested in fraternities. And I think anyone who knows them would say that both are very normal. </p>
<p>Whether MIT is right for your son is a decision only he can make, but there are certainly others like your son there. Good luck!</p>
<p>
[quote]
I take it nobody at these schools likes to go out and shoot hoops or play music or do anything that is not utilizing the math/science side of their brains?
[/quote]
On the contrary, many, many people at MIT like to do those things. About 60% of the student body is involved in the arts, 20% play varsity athletics, and 80% are involved in non-varsity (club and intramural) sports.</p>
<p>My fiance and I were both athletes at MIT -- I was on the cheerleading squad, and he's a freestyle skiier. I was pretty involved in the arts before coming to MIT (show choir, theatre, band), but when I came to MIT I decided I wanted to try something new.</p>
<p>
It's hard to convey anything more than just stereotypes on CC, and so I think both Caltech and MIT are portrayed a bit unfairly on these boards in terms of student interests and social life. </p>
<p>To echo what others have said of MIT, at Caltech, while most everyone is interested in studying/persuing science, that doesn't mean that this is the only interest by any means. Beyond classes and work (which granted, is less than at other schools), students still do normal college things: sports (though in a pretty relaxed way, sort of like MIT), music, some art, hanging out, partying, dating, etc. Many, many people, for example, are more than happy to talk about sports and music, and things like that are more likely to be discussed at dinner than say the last quantum problem set.</p>
<p>You definitely shouldn't take my word for it, though. For Caltech, especially, you really have to visit and spend some time in the houses to make the right decision.</p>
<p>For both schools, if your son is generally interested in the schools themselves (the academics, the size, locations, course offerings, etc.), I would have him apply and see how things pan out in terms of acceptances and financial aid. If those things turn out well, an in-depth visit would really help to answer your questions about social fit.</p>
<p>Thanks for the information. I'm hoping we can squeeze out both the time and money to visit both places, since we live in the middle of the country.</p>
<p>Wait until he gets in before you spend money on trips. I'd say your son definitely has a great chance for MIT, though. CalTech will be more difficult without at least state-level awards in math/science. If his recs are phenomenal then he might have a chance.</p>
<p>btw, in my opinion the environment at mit would be fine for your son. (I don't have personal experience at caltech so I can't say.) There are plenty of people with outside interests there like playing in a band or something.</p>
<p>Thanks collegealum 314. He has won our state math contest three years. so maybe that will help.</p>
<p>Well, in that case he sounds like he would be a great addition to the student body of either place.</p>
<p>CalTech is really looking for hardcore students, so I would emphasize that on your son's application. They don't expect people to necessarily have done research, but an applicant should project an image that you are someone headed toward the top levels of science, math, or engineering. </p>
<p>MIT actually has a question where they ask about what you do for fun... After the rash of suicides in the 90's, they are trying more for people who lead balanced lives. This doesn't mean you should choose MIT over CalTech though. The California environment may seem more relaxing to your son.</p>
<p>But we're totally unbalanced :P</p>
<p>Two years later, its still a joke.
I saw on last years thread, they rejected a guy who got 2350, 12 on AIME, USACO, and USNCO. He was also math club president, FBCLA president, and tennis team captain (so he obviously had other things). They also deferred a guy who was 2350, Siemens Reg. Finalist, 8 on AIME, and USNCO.</p>
<p>Why? Who knows. Obviously one reason is the mega AA for R and G. But obviously, MIT is trying to change their policy. It seems like they are looking to accept more "normal" kids. It seems like getting a 2350 is better than 2400, making AIME only is better than passing it, and so on. Its also beneficial to get lesser awards...too bad they dont realize just beucase you can get 2400 doesnt mean you arent normal.</p>
<p>I guess they want to fix their sterotypical nature, and also dont want to be labeled as the "suicide" school.</p>
<p>Of course I am saying this because two people (both Asian males, similar income) applied to MIT, and one was accepted and the other defered. The one who was accepted said his essays were junk so that was not deciding factor, and he got like 2300 SAT and had basic leadership positions/ECs like research. The one who was deferred got like 2350 SAT, president of math club, orchetra section leader, and thats both really impressive for our school, and was also 2 time math oly qualifier and a arml regional champ.</p>
<p>HAHA!!! was marliee jones (the one mentioned in the first post on this thread) the one who got fired for lying on her resume!!?</p>
<p>Rofl, I wonder how a school can choose the right students if they chose a person who would be the dean of admins who lied on her resume!!!</p>
<p>MIT is a school for visioners, not for people who simply manage to assimilate knowledge. Look, you have the internet, you can find every information in few seconds. The problem is how to use them in the creative way. </p>
<p>I can't even imagine that "perfect" guy you mentioned in the future. Trying to make everything perfect?</p>
<p>Creativity is very imperfect, it is abnormal, odd, and stinks of unfairness. But it is in my opinion the most important factor in MIT's admissions.</p>
<p>Before anybody unsheaths their flamethrowers for what I'm sure will be another fascinating round of old, tired arguments, could you please go back and read through the thread? </p>
<p>I have very little interest in having to copy and paste arguments from two years ago to another part of this thread.</p>