<p>its nice to see that the leader of the admissions office at MIT, which depends upon students to be honest in reporting their accomplishments, did not even get her job through honest and legitimate means.</p>
<p>people who lie and cheat the system to get ahead in life deserve no pity from anyone.</p>
<p>"Of course, Marilee Jones could conceivably be very intelligent. But many will view her as an idiot for this all, nonetheless."</p>
<p>You should probably read and comprehend what people are saying before you go off deciding that it is a matter of people thinking she is stupid. I don't see anyone anywhere on this thread, or anyone anywhere, complaining about her intelligence- if you actually read, you would probably notice that most people are concerned with her lack of integrity. </p>
<p>"But that does not negate the competence with which she handled her position."</p>
<p>True, it doesn't. But then again, who exactly would have eventually become admissions director during her time as director if she had not lied? would they have been more competent, or even extraordinary? would they have taken MIT to new heights? no one can ever know, since Marilee Jones opted to lie.</p>
<p>
[quote]
You should probably read and comprehend what people are saying before you go off deciding that it is a matter of people thinking she is stupid. I don't see anyone anywhere on this thread, or anyone anywhere, complaining about her intelligence- if you actually read, you would probably notice that most people are concerned with her lack of integrity.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It wouldn't be politically correct to do so. It's probably incidental in the minds of some (this is mere speculation and could be wrong). But yes, the lack of integrity is probably complained about more than the other features. Quite frankly, most of them never knew which universities she forged degrees from until now.</p>
<p>Agreed. It's a personal honesty thing. Nobody cares about what she falsified (the actual degrees) - everybody cares about the fact that she DID falsify something. And I feel like a lot of people are taking out their anger on her.</p>
<p>judyinoh - Let me state that I agree with you that she did great work! I must not be getting my point across, sorry for that. I am saying that this continual lying will overshadow all that work. Are you really equating lying once about your GPA with 28 years of continuious lying about claiming to have several degrees, including a Phd, when in fact you completed just one year of part time undrgrad work? If I am reading that right, you & I must agree to disagree because those acts are not comparable. By the way you did ask if "anyone cares", not the people who hired her.</p>
<p>I don't know what sources you're using, but The Tech
<a href="http://www-tech.mit.edu/V127/N21/jones.html%5B/url%5D">http://www-tech.mit.edu/V127/N21/jones.html</a>
reports her claiming up to a Master's</p>
<p>-It's hard to tell the truth, when you've gone that deep in. Of course, it's reprehensible, but it doesn't deserve half of CC going off and demonizing her, like the way people have been in these recent threads. </p>
<p>The arguments here are tried and tired. Why don't you take a few days to simmer your anger off somewhere else? At least, away from CC. Now, I don't frequent this place often, but it always feels like people here are so eager to... pass their own swift judgement. </p>
<p>Ms. Jones is still someone I hold in very high regard, regardless of what she did. People make mistakes. People are human.
Leave her her privacy. </p>
<p>And what of the irony? That she was helping enforce a system that she managed to slip through? That she might have tried to steer students to expand their views (go out, take a walk, don't obsess over those SAT's)? Well, hey, the class we have is all the better for it.</p>
<p>Well hey, that's rain.</p>
<p>Chill~</p>
<p>Cheers for daveed</p>
<p>Daveed, I wouldn't call her lies and lack of integrity a "mistake"......She potentially steered a handful of students' life in the wrong direction...Some people for example, (one of which is my close friend), got rejected (though he's well qualified when comparing stats to MIT cc'ers here)...and I know we can't blame everything on her...but with an actually qualified individual as the dean, MIT admissions could possibly have been a much fairer, competitive, and good natured process had Ms. Jones not lied...</p>
<p>Like I said... people sound bitter.</p>
<p>Uhhh, MIT admissions IS fair, competitive and good natured.</p>
<p>Everyone admitted to MIT is qualified. A team of adcoms see's to it that this is the case. Marilee didn't reject your friend, a team of people did. </p>
<p>Frankly I get upset how people keep using this as an attempt to question the right of students to be here. Seems like a lot of people are bitter and are trying to use the incident to somehow justify an 'unfair' rejection.</p>
<p>
She did the job well for three decades. Do you think anyone CARES that she lied in the beginning?</p>
<p>When it comes down to it, do you think they hired her on as Admissions Director because of mere degrees? They hired her because she did competent work for years before applying. After she got her first job, her degrees ceased to matter; the only thing that did was her performance in MIT administration.</p>
<p>Of course, that does not mean lying at first wasn't a bad thing, because it was. But it's not as if her one lie twenty eight years ago invalidates everything MIT stood for.
</p>
<p>Please read my post, #14, just three above yours. I'm going to repeat the most relevant part, because the facts of the matter seemed to have slipped right past you so far:</p>
<p>IT WAS NOT A MISTAKE. (Now go back and read the rest to see why. I'm tired of explaining the basics of academic integrity on a college-based forum where they should be well-known and respected).</p>
<p>KornPopz,</p>
<p>I certainly do not believe that the standards of admissions had been compromised under the leadership of Ms. Jones. I've had friends (completely amazing ones) rejected at various top schools- it happens. The truth is, the way that you know them to be qualified might not be the same way they present themselves on their applications.</p>
<p>Anyway, as has been mentioned before, "stats" aren't everything. People are perfectly capable without "top stats"- isn't this the whole "humanization of the application" thing that we've been seeing? And, well, isn't that a good thing? From a personal perspective, at least, it is.</p>
<p>Anyway. Concerning calling it "lies and lack of integrity" ... 28 years was a long time ago. It sounds like one of those things you did when you were young and reckless, and, well, to borrow her words, didn't have the courage later on to correct. As to her being unqualified for the job- what she's done with the job has shown that she is very qualified.</p>
<p>Note- I'm not disputing the necessity of her resignation. </p>
<p>But I honestly don't think this "controversy" is as big as some are making it out to be.</p>
<p>Regards,
David</p>
<p>Daveed, I completely agree with the first half of your post. The latter half, however, concerns me, especially with your assertion that her "mistake" was a "young and reckless" action. Her lie was a hypocritical and repetitive one. Her own decision to abstain from telling the truth about her educational background just makes me wonder how qualified she really was at making academic decisions for others.</p>
<p>MIT is an amazing school, no doubt, and I just think that under a more qualified dean, it could be prospered more than it had under Ms. Jones (again, not saying that MIT suffered at all during her reign).</p>
<p>end of debate (for me anyways, i'm spending way too much time on CC :D)</p>
<p>My final words on this subject. Just a few cleanup points. </p>
<ol>
<li><p>She was 27 when she applied for the first job at MIT and started lying repeatedly for 28 years. 27 years old is not young! Teenagers may get passes for single acts of this kind of stuff. Not an adult.</p></li>
<li><p>Good question on if she lied about the Phd. After checking several sources it is not clear where the Phd came from. Seems well documented that the BS and MS were fabricated. I don't think it is possible to get a Phd without a BS but maybe the BS was not checked when she worked on and received a legit Phd. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>Here is the best description (edited down to degrees issue) I could find.
from the National Association for College Admissions Counseling:</p>
<p>"Dr. Marilee Jones, Ph.D., is the Dean of Admissions at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT).....
Dr. Jones is a scientist with degrees in biology and chemistry from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute and the Albany Medical College."</p>
<ol>
<li> My Son informed me last night that he is accepting the MIT offer of class of 2011. I am happy for him, it is a great school and one that he should fit in and excell.</li>
</ol>