<p>I've not seen a Carleton vs. MIT thread. I've seen a Swarthmore one which made some good points. So here's the specifics:</p>
<p>My child is accepted ED at MIT...right now it's his dream school and he'll probably go there. He's waiting for RD for Carleton and Swarthmore. I like all three of the schools a lot, but they are very different. So I'm wondering what to consider, besides the obvious.... LAC vs. tech/ivy...Philly burbs vs. Northfield vs. Cambridge.... before he commits. </p>
<p>He's interested in engineering, hard sciences, political science and economics. And he's an accomplished musician who will want to belong to an active string quartet plus other musical ensembles.</p>
<p>D had similar choice several years ago: Carleton v. Caltech. D chose Carleton, has never looked back. If your S is accepted, visit during admitted student days. That helped her decide, as well as she wanted a more liberal arts education, while majoring in science. Will be going abroad, taking music lessons, studying art, etc. And yes, D is planning on graduate school.</p>
<p>Well, that is very different-my H went to MIT-it nearly ate him alive, and they don’t have pass/fail the first year for nothing-but he came out with a bachelor’s degree that makes folks stand up and take notice. He knew only 2 of his profs well, and many of his classes were giant, taught by incomprehensible grad students, and not fun.he is a college professor now. He did grad work at the U of M and Cornell.
We lived in MN and made the acquaintance of many Carleton grads.We got such a great impression that I made my S visit and interview. He really liked the vibe, and I have to say it would be a MUCH more nurturing and individually supportive environment. He could still have fab research opportunities, perhaps even more so, because there are no grad students to compete with…
I don’t know Swarthmore, but I would want my child, especially if s/he were unstable in any way, at Carleton over MIT for undergrad…As a mother.My husband also thinks that I had a better, more personal education than he at my small LAC, but he certainly got what he needed out of the INSTITUTION, and it has opened doors for him.
He was valedictorian of a moderate sized public HS, very smart, but the workload is incredible, and there isn’t a lot of nurturing going on.(Or wasn’t)He loved living in Cambridge, and the dorm life.</p>
<p>It really depends on the type of person your son is. Make sure, if possible, that he’s spent some time at each school in question. … Several years ago, our daughter was accepted everywhere from Pomona to Vassar. But a visit to Carleton sealed the deal for her. … By the way, Carleton wasn’t even on her radar during the initial stages of her college search. She went up to visit Macalester, and I insisted she visit Carleton while there. The rest is history. :)</p>
<p>Carleton doesn’t have an Engineering program. To switch from a hard science to engineering in a grad program is never easy.</p>
<p>It depends on the type of person your son is. To one student Carleton’s student professor interaction may be considered “nuturing” and a great thing. To another student the same professor interaction may seem overly controlling and overly subjective.</p>
<p>Our daughter graduated from Swarthmore this last year, and we have a son at Carleton. I agree with Hindoo - essential to visit all campuses and get a sense of how your son fits with each student body. If your son wants a structured engineering program, he may want to lean more towards MIT and Swarthmore. Swarthmore also has some of what OldbatesieDoc is referencing - as evidenced by the pass/fail first semester and t-shirts claiming “anywhere else it would have been an A.” If participation in a string ensemble is important, he should also make a point of trying to meet with the music department and/or students participating in those groups when he visits. Our son will probably major in music at Carleton - loves the school, students, and most of the classes he has taken so far.</p>
<p>I am going to respectively disagree with “To switch from a hard science to engineering in a grad program is never easy.”. As one who did it many years ago, it was incredibly easy. Look at where Carleton’s chemistry and physics majors go to grad school - ofter into engineering.</p>
<p>Definitely true about the P/F first semester at Swarthmore. Most students seem to like it. We see downsides to it as well - seemed to be an extended orientation - some students concentrated less on academics the first semester and more on the transition to college. Swarthmore also schedules its parent weekend in the spring; as parents, we felt that if Swarthmore was not a good fit for a student, it would be very difficult to transfer freshman year - given the P/F first semester and the timing of parent weekend. If you have any other questions about S, please PM me - don’t want to keep going on about it on the Carleton site.</p>
<p>Mom90, I’m in the list of Physics & Chemistry majors that switched in one of those years from Carleton. My experience was that the switch was not easy. I’d be curious why your switch was easy. </p>
<p>I needed to take 1 and 1/2 semesters of undergrad courses before taking courses that would count towards my graduate degree. After this I worked in Industry. Those additional undergrad courses were completely necessary to have a clue what I was doing in industry and in the upper level grad courses…in my opinion. These undergrad courses were the core courses in the undergrad program which I completed in a around a year…this wasn’t easy for me. Things were better once I took the graduate courses though.</p>
<p>Also, if you want to get a PhD, it is much more difficult to go straight from undergrad physics/chemistry to an Engineering PhD program. It happens, but it is rare. More likely you switch into a Masters program and are paying tuition for at least part of it.</p>
<p>I posted the OP in MIT and Carleton threads (meant to do Swarthmore too but didn’t). The MIT has also grown into a lot of LAC vs Tech posts that were very thoughtful as has this thread. Just an FYI in case you’re interested.</p>
<p>I think if you want to have lots of research opportunities and lab experience, go to MIT. if you just want a good undergraduate education, you can choose top LAC. But LACs are not reputed as top Universities. Someone even didn’t know Carleton. I met several such people.</p>
<p>About the lack of engineering programs at Carleton, I always thought that would be a fantastic addition…basic engineering programs…electrical, mechanical, etc. I’d think it would make Carleton more competitive with Swarthmore for sure and maybe even places like MIT. Some might argue that it would hurt the “Liberal arts” aspect of Carleton, but I doubt it.</p>
<p>Anyway, if I were a rich alum(rather than a poor alum like now) and wanted to give loads of money to Carleton, they’d need to put the money towards and engineering program.</p>
<p>I think for undergrads you can get more(and do better) research opportunities at a LAC, because there is no competition from grad students. I know as a physics major at Bates, I had a (shared)office/lab right on the same floor as the profs, and got 1:1 attention on my research, plus a publication…Helped me reach MY goals…</p>
<p>A student who plans to pursue a career in a science-related field is going to be around like-minded people for the rest of their working lives. I think there’s something to be said for delaying that intellectual homogeneity by four years and going to an LAC. In sciences/engineering at any institution, many students can be somewhat dismissive or snobby about their fields vs. “softer” areas of study (English, sociology, political science, etc.). It’s nice to go to a place like Carleton and have very smart peers who can help you appreciate these major areas of thought you might not otherwise touch without social encouragement. The breadth of courses I had at Carleton and people I met drove me down a far more interdisciplinary path than I would have ever expected as a high school senior. Based on the experiences of the MIT alums I know, I think I would have had a narrower focus and an overall less satisfying experience if I had gone there rather than Carleton. Yes, I know MIT has non-science departments and very strong economics/political science programs, but absolutely none of the MIT alums I’ve met seem to have dabbled in both hard and social sciences - there just doesn’t seem to be as much institutional or social encouragement to do that as there is at a smaller college with a more academically-diverse student body.</p>
<p>That said, I was not going to study engineering in the first place, so there wasn’t as large of a tradeoff for choosing an LAC with a strong sciences program over a engineering-focused university. If I had been seriously considering engineering, I doubt I would have been nearly as interested in Carleton in the first place.</p>