MIT vs UC's

<p>I'm having trouble deciding which college I should attend. My choice is between MIT, Berkeley, UCLA (with regents) or UCSD (with regents).</p>

<p>I'm going to major in Biology and also, I only have around 30 k a year for college, so for MIT, even with financial aid, there is likely to be around a 10 k difference per year compared to the UC's that I would have to make up myself either with loans or work. </p>

<p>My main question is whether or not the opportunities/connections at MIT versus the opportunities/connections at Berkeley are worth the difference in finances. Not just the tuition, but also the cost of flying there often (I live in California). </p>

<p>Also: I would be able to play on the Varsity Tennis team at MIT. I'm also concerned that I would not be up to par with the academics at MIT since most of the students there are honestly a lot more academically oriented than I am.</p>

<p>MIT admitted you for a reason - you’re just too humble to admit you’re damn smart. I think $40k more is worth it for MIT over Berkeley (and I love Berkeley). Did you visit Berkeley and MIT?</p>

<p>Have you been accepted to each of these schools?</p>

<p>Well i live near Berkeley and my brother goes there, so I’ve seen what it’s like. I haven’t visited MIT because I would have to pay out of my own pocket for the visit (about 400 dollars for the airfare) and I’m not sure if I’m willing to put in that much especially since the possibility of attending MIT is slowly dwindling for me. </p>

<p>And honestly, I probably got into MIT because I’m a girl and because of tennis. Not to stereotype or anything, one concern of going to MIT is that most people there are “nerds” and are going to study more than have fun. </p>

<p>But do you think that there are significantly less opportunities at Berkeley (in terms of internship, connections, etc) versus MIT, even if I was proactive about finding them at Berkeley?</p>

<p>and yes, I’ve been accepted, this isn’t just hypothetical haha</p>

<p>MIT is better than Berkeley in almost every way. That being said, you clearly want to go to Berkeley, so, go to Berkeley. UCLA Regents is nice too. Too bad you didn’t get Regents for Berkeley. It probably would have made your decision quite easier.</p>

<p>^ My daughter’s a junior at MIT. You’ll be able to work at MIT, and you’ll be able to get a paid research position over the summers. And if you live in a dorm with a kitchen and do your own cooking, and if your parents can cover your health insurance on their plan (allowing you to opt out of MIT’s health care system), you should then be able to contribute between $6,000 to $10,000 per year toward your schooling there.</p>

<p>So sit down and actually calculate the costs. Don’t forget to add in the fact that as an MIT graduate, you’ll have a much better shot at a good job out the gate.</p>

<p>I graduated with a masters and doctorate from Berkeley, and I think the undergraduate education at MIT offers a much better value.</p>

<p>I don’t think that your classmates at Berkeley are going to be any less competitive than MIT. </p>

<p>In terms of Biology departments you can find all 4 schools here. Don’t overlook UCSD when comparing to UCLA, although UC Berkeley is clearly higher ranked and the same as MIT:</p>

<p>[Rankings</a> - Biological Sciences - Graduate Schools - Education - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-biological-sciences-programs/rankings]Rankings”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-biological-sciences-programs/rankings)</p>

<p>Rankings
Biological Sciences
Ranked in 2007 </p>

<p>Sort by Rank | Name
Rank College name Distance Score
1 Stanford University Stanford, CA Enter your zip 4.9<br>
2 Massachusetts Institute of Technology Cambridge, MA Enter your zip 4.8<br>
2 University of California–Berkeley Berkeley, CA Enter your zip 4.8<br>
4 California Institute of Technology Pasadena, CA Enter your zip 4.7<br>
4 Harvard University Boston, MA Enter your zip 4.7<br>
6 Johns Hopkins University Baltimore, MD Enter your zip 4.6<br>
7 Rockefeller University New York, NY Enter your zip 4.5<br>
7 Scripps Research Institute La Jolla, CA Enter your zip 4.5<br>
7 University of California–San Francisco San Francisco, CA Enter your zip 4.5<br>
7 Washington University in St. Louis St. Louis, MO Enter your zip 4.5<br>
7 Yale University New Haven, CT Enter your zip 4.5<br>
12 Cornell University Ithaca, NY Enter your zip 4.4<br>
12 Duke University Durham, NC Enter your zip 4.4<br>
12 Princeton University Princeton, NJ Enter your zip 4.4<br>
15 Columbia University New York, NY Enter your zip 4.3<br>
15 University of Michigan–Ann Arbor Ann Arbor, MI Enter your zip 4.3<br>
15 University of Wisconsin–Madison Madison, WI Enter your zip 4.3<br>
18 University of California–San Diego La Jolla, CA Enter your zip 4.2<br>
18 University of Chicago Chicago, IL Enter your zip 4.2<br>
18 University of Washington Seattle, WA Enter your zip 4.2<br>
21 University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia, PA Enter your zip 4.1<br>
21 University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center–Dallas Dallas, TX 4.1
23 University of California–Davis Davis, CA Enter your zip 4.0<br>
23 University of California–Los Angeles Los Angeles, CA Enter your zip 4.0<br>
23 University of Texas–Austin Austin, TX Enter your zip 4.0</p>

<p>

I wouldn’t say there are significantly less opportunities at Berkeley…just more people competing for the resources and less guidance to gain access to them. If you’re smart enough to get into MIT and proactive enough to seek opportunities, you can be very successful at Berkeley.</p>

<p>@ RileyJohn, you’re right in saying that I’m leaning towards Berkeley - at the moment, at least. The thing is, just a couple of days ago, I had been heavily set on going to MIT, despite all the costs and extra work I would have to put in; however, my parents are strongly against my attending MIT. When I tried to convince them that MIT was a better school, I had no facts to support my argument. Based on the rankings, like JohnAdams12 said, Berkeley’s Biology field is right up there with MIT’s. Also, my parents told me that my health insurance would NOT be covered in the family plan over at MIT, so that would be an extra cost as well. If I were to play on the tennis team, try to get good grades, and also work to pay my own tuition, I might find myself too busy to enjoy college life.</p>

<p>I guess the reason I’m leaning towards Berkeley right now is that I know that I’m guaranteed at least a good education and a good time there, whereas I don’t know much about MIT, so I can’t really say. I just don’t want to end up choosing MIT, then regretting my decision due to finances, academics, etc. </p>

<p>If anyone could provide some concrete facts of why MIT undergrad is significantly better than Berkeley’s in my situation, that would be really helpful. Thanks for all your input! :]</p>

<p>angel, but playing tennis at MIT would be part of enjoying college life…</p>

<p>“If I were to play on the tennis team, try to get good grades, and also work to pay my own tuition, I might find myself too busy to enjoy college life.”</p>

<p>^ Frankly, I really believe that any student seriously interested in MIT is perfectly capable of uncovering all the data she needs to make a strong case to her parents. So I’m leaving this thread with just one suggestion: If you are going to depend on strangers here to “give you the facts” then you’re right; you probably don’t belong at MIT. There are hundreds of other students who would be quite happy to take your spot, and you’ll be fine at Berkeley.</p>

<p>It’s a win/win for everyone.</p>

<p>angela, this might show you a little about what students that are looking at undergraduate UC Berkeley and MIT do in terms of choice of school:</p>

<p>[The</a> New York Times > Week in Review > Image > Collegiate Matchups: Predicting Student Choices](<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/09/17/weekinreview/20060917_LEONHARDT_CHART.html]The”>The New York Times > Week in Review > Image > Collegiate Matchups: Predicting Student Choices)</p>

<p>@calalum Obviously, I have been trying to learn about MIT but as you should know, the truth may be far from just rankings and percentages, so when you assume that MIT is better than cal in almost every way without any concrete facts, it leaves me wondering how justified that actually is. I’m not basing my entire decision off of this thread, but it’s helpful to get as much input as I can, which is the purpose of this site.</p>

<p>MIT is in another stratosphere from Berkeley, but you sound more comfortable with Berkeley. It is an amazing and outstanding place. But if you’re not ready for it, that doesn’t matter.</p>

<p>It’s a question of who you’re surrounding yourself with, how accessible your professors are, etc.</p>

<p>It’s not that I’m not ‘comfortable’ or ‘ready’ for MIT, I just don’t know what it’s like. All I’ve heard is how great of a school it is (academically), and not much about it’s environment or people, and I don’t want to be paying just for the name of a school, especially since it’s undergrad, which is not as important as graduate school in the long run. But since you guys all seem convinced that MIT is the better school hands down, I’m starting to think that visit to MIT might be worthwhile.</p>

<p>Why don’t you call the admissions folks at MIT and explain to them honestly your current thoughts plus the fact that air fare + spending a few days is a factor. I think they may be able to advise you better and may even go the extra mile in footing the bill. If they are not helpful, that can help solidify your decision towards Berkeley. Maybe they can help with the financial gap also.
Basically a field like Biology is essentially “over-subscribed” both at MIT and Berkeley. What that will mean is that you will have large classes in your first few years, with Berkeley being worse than MIT. Both places are very competitive - I think given your credentials you will do fine at either place. MIT is a bit easier on the freshman transition - they do not give out grades during the first semester ( or two).</p>

<p>I would hardly call biology oversubscribed at MIT. There are around 200 undergrads in the department with a faculty of around 70 for student faculty ratio of less than 3:1. This is about the same size as the physics department and significantly less than than the math department and several of the engineering departments. There is never an issue of a class being oversubscribed and most classes even for underclassmen are quite small. </p>

<p>I would also disagree with the characterization of MIT as “competitive”. Challenging certainly but competitive, definitely not. There is no ranking, no Latin honors, no grading on a curve, no grades first semester, multiple exploratory and P/F options and very late drop dates. Most problem sets are worked on in teams, not individually. If anything MIT goes out of its way to deemphasize grades so that students can take risks and explore new areas. With relatively few premeds there is very little grade grubbing going on and definitely no “weed-out” classes as is typical at many of the UCs. </p>

<p>Also, with only 4,000 total undergraduates the resources showered on the students are simply extraordinary. All the top professors in the biology department including the 4 Nobel prize winners teach undergrads. Undergrads also have unrestricted access to graduate classes if they wish. EVERY undergrad at MIT is guaranteed the opportunity to get involved in cutting edge research and even freshmen can participate. Undergrads are largely treated the same as grad students in the labs and can get their names included on major publications. </p>

<p>As far as MIT improving the financial aid offer to match a state school (or any other school) that simply won’t happen. They have never offered any merit aid and simply don’t need to. On the other hand, MIT has some of the most generous need based financial aid of any private university with over 60% of the student receiving straight grants. The school will take into account special circumstances that may not be fully described in the Profile or FAFSA, so it is possible to appeal a financial aid offer with good cause. Getting jobs on campus is also very easy. Your medical insurance through your parents WILL apply at MIT. While many schools are cutting back their aid budgets, MIT actually increased their by over 10% last year. </p>

<p>My daughter is currently a junior at MIT in the neuroscience department (sort of a sister department to biology). Like most students at MIT she studies hard but she truly loves her work. Most of her classes are with fewer than 10 students are typically seminar style. There are no textbooks as most advanced classes involved analysis of primary research materials often produced in the various labs at MIT. But she still has plenty of time for other activities and for fun. She is active in her sorority, does volunteering at a local hospital, has been involved in research since freshman year and has even time to go shopping, see movies with friends or go to parties on weekends. MIT also has some of the highest student participation in varsity sports of any school in the country even though it does not recruit student athletes. </p>

<p>You have been offered a very rare opportunity to attend one of the premier educational institutions in the world, and not to take anything away from Cal which is certainly a premier institution in its own right, MIT is unique. At the undergrad level especially, the educational experience will be strikingly different and frankly so will be the opportunities upon graduation. There are just not that many MIT grads around and the MIT brand carries a lot of weight especially when jobs are hard to come by. My daughter got several well paid internship offers for the summer while quite a few of her friends at other colleges could not even get unpaid internships. The job market is brutal for college graduates right now and will remain so for some time. Most of the MIT student who pursue advanced studies get into the top grad schools, especially in the sciences. </p>

<p>Even if your parents cannot seem to appreciate the difference, you are the one who will go to college not them. Very few students turn down their admission to MIT and cost is seldom a reason to do so. At the very least you owe to yourself to fully explore your options. The $400 it may cost you to fly over and spend a few days at MIT may be the best investment your parents and you will ever make.</p>

<p>@ johnadams, that list isn’t based off crossadmits, its based off high school seniors who may or may not have been accepted. You’ll find accepted students have a very different opinion.</p>

<p>Also, Berkeley’s strength as an undergraduate institution is much weaker than its grad schools. Berkeley is a great school, but MIT does offer an unparalleled education and many more opportunities after graduation. </p>

<p>@OP - financial aid is usually negotiable. Call them up and explain your circumstances. Even if you have to work or take a loan, its an investment worth making. This isn’t the ivies, uou’re not just paying for the name here, you do get a much better education.</p>