MM vp process

College Majors Music Major
1

<p>Hi,</p>

<p>I've been combing threads for postings about the MM vp/opera major process. Do singers typically apply to an equal number of schools as they did in undergrad? How important are relationships/ exposure to people running the various programs, or is it most heavily weighted towards the actual audition? What about transcripts, recommendations, and undergrad school - are these considered as important as they were in high school? Are MM auditions usually at the same time as undergrad, or are they available at off times? Is there ever an understanding in advance, or does it remain the same kind of mystery as undergrad admission? Thank you - would much appreciate hearing some of your experiences!</p>

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<p>By the time a singer is ready for their MM, they should be aware of where they are in the talent pool. Therefor they should have already targeted where they are a good fit and what sort of teacher they need. So a most grad applicants have a more narrow list of potential programs. The audition is still paramount, but a grad applicant should do a serious amount of networking and research before that audition.</p>

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<p>^What Musica said!</p>

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<p>Thank you, Musica and srw! That makes sense. Do most singers continue on into a Masters program right away, or do the conservatories look for some real life experience in between degrees? If students take time off, do they lose their momentum?</p>

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<p>This varies with each student. Mine decided that a gap year was best for her… only time will tell if that was the best decision… she plans on using that year to try to gain small roles at the local opera companies near where she currently goes to school. Her teacher has had students who have been successful at this in the past and it helped that student be attractive to teachers she was interested in.</p>

<p>Dd also plans on using the extra year to take some concentrated acting classes… she is naturally good on stage and has had some training at the conservatory… she wants more as it is so important for singers to also be good in this area.</p>

<p>To this point she has not done much in the way of contests. She will use this time to start those.</p>

<p>She plans on continuing her studies with her teacher during this year… so one more year for her voice to continue to develop before grad auditions…she would rather go in with more.</p>

<p>She had one of the teachers at a ny conservatory tell her that most of the grad students coming in were around 24 …so we don’tthink waiting that extra year will be a bad thing.</p>

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<p>What matters for VP MM applicant: voice, voice, voice, technique, languages, musicality, musicianship, musical style, interpretive instincts, performance comfort and presence, experience. It does not matter where you did your undergraduate degree if you are well trained. It does not matter with whom you studied or who you know if you sound good and appropriate for your age and voice type. </p>

<p>Unfortunately, there is more and more of an emphasis on youth and glamour, rather than maturity and dependability, though the young glamorous singer is expected to be well prepared and dependable, too. It is rare that a voice and technique is totally established at the end of the undergraduate years. More time in terms of physical maturity and technical skills is needed, and those years in the early twenties are crucial. Listening to singers audition for a summer opera program, we hear many 20-22 year old singers who sound pretty good, usually too young to satisfy and survive major opera roles, but doing well. After that stage, a lot can happen, and good training and guidance is crucial. A singer left to their own devices without an anchor and well respected teacher to guide them may take on repertory and try to make sounds inappropriate for the age or the native voice, and that is when singers get in big trouble. </p>

<p>My best advice is to stick with a teacher you know and trust until you are ready and able (financially and developmentally) to move to another teacher you can equally trust. Jumping from teacher to teacher during workshops, summer programs, transferring, master classes, etc. is dangerous vocally. A singer needs to know him/herself, what is happening, how it feels, how to judge how it might sound, what to trust, and none of that can be done alone. </p>

<p>The undergraduate experience is important, getting the academic background in theory, music history, style, languages, etc. GPA matters most places. Most schools will not consider anyone with undergraduate GPA below a 3.0. Many make the GPA part of the ranking for financial aid. Schools want students to successfully complete degrees, and the faculty must be convinced this will be possible. </p>

<p>opera-mom’s daughter has a good game plan. She will stay with the teacher with whom she is already making excellent progress. She will gain more experience. She will have time to research and decide where to apply for graduate school. She will be making a more informed, mature decision, not under the pressure of the demands of the senior year. These are important elements. </p>

<p>Graduate programs (in universities and conservatories) are interested in what the performance experiences have been, but nothing matters as much as how the singer sounds and performs. It does help not to be a soprano…sigh. </p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>Thank you lorelei and operamom. All good advice! I guess there’s nothing much left for the mother to do but encourage good habits discipline, and plenty of patience.</p>

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<p>Now that I’m a member I’ll respond to this since I just went through this whole process. </p>

<p>I disagree slightly with Lorelei on glamour and youth being chosen over maturity and dependability–or perhaps maybe I just see it a bit differently. Firstly, because I am a young 20 something that found myself competing for acceptances at schools where older 20 somethings and young 30 somethings were also auditioning for the same programs, and I found it hard and frustrating 'cause it’s not like I could magically and healthy add four years to my voice. Secondly and moreso, I think the matter is more towards “the actor-singer” vs. “the singing singer.” The way opera is evolving, you’re right, there is much more emphasis on what’s happening on the stage as opposed to just the singing. To be honest, if youth and glamour is needed to convey an opera accurately, why the heck not. it’s hard to believe a 45 year old overweight Susanna next to a younger, more svelte countess. That look simply doesn’t fit the fach (soubrette). There are still teachers (and schools) that readily embrace pure talented voices without paying much heed to whether or not those auditioning could believably fit the part, but if you ask me, that’s foolish. If opera is going to survive the next few decades (hopefully centuries), the singers need to have credibility, both in their looks and their acting abilities. Modern audiences crave that connection and realness; it’s what younger generations are being primed to expect. To be stubborn and remain stuck in the past is almost a sure death-wish to the art form. I do agree that young singers shouldn’t be pushed into roles that they are not vocally ready for, even if they have the talent for them. So many good singers go to waste by age 32 because they sang stuff that can do long-term damage to still maturing chords. Remember, it takes 10 years to hone the musical-memory and develop a physical skill. Instrumentalists are way luckier that they can start as young kids where vocalists have to wait until 17/18 when the chords are strong enough to be worked regularly. </p>

<p>In regards to gap years, I took one against the wishes of everyone (including my parents), and it was the best decision I could have done. During my senior year of undergrad at a liberal arts school, I simply had no time to properly research schools and teachers let alone arrange an audition season. Having a year off allowed me to breath and relinquish some of my more stubborn bad technical habits from undergrad in a safe, nurturing environment. I was also able to work–and most of my work was singing! I sang at funeral homes, I had a regular church job, I subbed all over the place during Holy Week and Advent, I worked with a professional caroling company, I advertised myself to babysit and teach kids the basics of music (think solfege and simple songs that I could play decently on a piano). And with all that, I had time to ground myself, evaluate where I was vocally, and choose what schools would be appropriate to apply to. </p>

<p>The reasons some people are against gap years are pretty justifiable. I have known people that said they just needed time off and completely left singing altogether. A wise coach up in NYC told me that if you were going to take time off, yes you needed to work, but your primary occupation had to be singing. Other jobs can overtake a singer’s life and cause vocal issues (loud restaurants, smokey bars, working with small children who carry lots of germs). The other thing to remember is no singing job is too small. $50 here and there goes a long way, and you can make connections and beef up your resume. And be forever humble! I once sang a POTO themed wedding. It was something out of a nightmare for me, but I kept my mouth shut and smiled through the whole production (for lack of a better word), and I then got booked for two other weddings–that were way more conventional, I might add. </p>

<p>When you take a gap year, you have to take your studies into your own hands and figure out what you need. I kept up with weekly voice lessons, I coached either with my voice teacher or another coach once a week as well, I enrolled in a local community college and kept up with my languages, and I taught myself IPA (not taught at my school)–all in addition to keeping up with my singing jobs. Do stuff that makes up for deficiencies you might have had during your undergraduate studies. </p>

<p>Lastly, do make sure you’re working with a teacher you trust and can clearly make progress with. Don’t get sucked into a comfort zone. I have seen this happen with so many singers and they DO lose momentum and completely defeat the purpose of a gap year. If you have an idea of someone you might want to study with for graduate school, there’s no harm moving to that state and working with them for a year privately while working and apply for admission the following year. It is expensive to go this route–ie you may need parental financial support to stay on top of everything. But on the other hand, if you chose that school (say you move to IN and work there for a year and then apply for school), you can gain instate residency and get lower tuition. It’s important to read the reqs for instate residency as each state is different; some are a lot harder than others. I was very fortunate to be able to save a lot of my money by living at home which my parents were OK with as long as I was working (fair trade, in my opinion). </p>

<p>When looking at schools, I paid attention to the teacher first and foremost. I looked at the students the teacher had coming out of the studio and what they sounded like and what they were doing presently. I then considered what performance opportunities the school had as well as the surrounding area, and lastly I looked at finances (what schools had money to give, which ones were struggling). Youtube and google are your biggest help when looking up students of teachers you’re considering. I ended up applying to seven schools. This may sound excessive, but there is a surplus of sopranos out there, and you just don’t know what voices schools need every year. I got auditions to five; accepted to three. They ranged from top conservatories to well-respected state schools, to the out-there programs like Bard. I got money at none of them, just as an aside and to point out that this is not a great time to be a soprano. My audition tour was tipping towards mid-four figures, and I ended up nixing live-auditions I had planned for summer programs. I had been planning out the finances for all of this about seven months in advance. </p>

<p>It is a time-consuming process if you are not good at scheduling “work time.” I found it way more difficult than when I was applying to undergrad, and then I had my choice of 7 top liberal arts schools and an ivy… Then again, when I started off in undergrad, I thought I was going to do something completely unrelated to music LOL. If your daughter does any summer programs, encourage her to talk to the voice teachers and coaches there and find out what schools they’re from. Ultimately, summer programs proved to be my greatest resource for “auditioning” teachers and getting a better feel for what schools would be a good fit for me based off the faculty. </p>

<p>I cannot recommend enough keeping info on every school and every application as organized as possible. I did a variation on several spreadsheets I had arranged way back when I was applying for undergrad, and at the very least, it made me a lot calmer when wading through all the applications and pros/cons of each school. It also meant I could just defer to the spreadsheet instead of scouring each school’s website every time I had a question. </p>

<p>My last piece of advice is, while it is only two years and the teacher matters most, do be sure to pick a place you will enjoy living in. Singers’ instruments are greatly affected by their environment and stressors. You want to have a productive, preferably unhampered two years if at all possible to get your money’s worth.</p>

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<p>Also as an aside, if you ever get a verbal agreement from a teacher that yes, they will take you into his/her studio upon acceptance, get that in writing as soon as possible. I was niave, to say the least, and did not do this, and when I did contact the teacher a month later after my acceptance, he/she sent me a curt email saying I should have sent the email sooner and to look elsewhere. I found it hurtful, but I got over it and found another teacher whom, in hindsight, is much better fitted to what I need.</p>

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<p>Thank you latido for the advice and for telling your story! Sounds like you did a lot of planning during your gap year that worked out to your benefit! Brava!</p>

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<p>Latido, some voices sound quite mature in the early twenties, but others do not. This does not predict the ultimate outcome, but it limits the opportunities available to get that all important experience during the early years. Beyond the glamour and youth, agents and auditioning groups want the whole package, and that is what the main issue is: the Package. Good looks, fine voice, mature artistry, solid technique, mesmerizing sound, and a body that matches the voice type. A bit of sizzle helps, too! </p>

<p>What we do not want to hear is singers doing things they either are not or never will be able to satisfy with their sound. We hear many singers who are on a good track with appropriate repertory during their early twenties, and when later they reappear to audition for us, they have taken the plunge into an inappropriate Fach to disastrous results. It is very sad. We also hear youngsters with nothing appropriate in their audition materials, everything way beyond them.</p>

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<p>Maybe a confusion for young singers over their choice of rep comes because they have been rewarded in competition from showy, rangy pieces.When auditioning for a school faculty, however, it seems prudent to consider what is truly appropriate for a student with the goal of producing the healthiest, age appropriate sound. Looking one’s best and performing proper rep with artistry, then, is ultimately more impressive than big, showy arias. Teachers can hear the potential in a voice.</p>

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<p>I like this thread. Lots to think about here.</p>

<p>lorelei2702, thanks for the insight from an audition panel’s perspective. Interesting! I like your definition of “the Package.” I’m curious … when you say “a body that matches the voice type,” what do you mean? Do you have body type examples that do and/or do not match their voice types?</p>

<p>musicamusica and srw mentioned that prospective grad students should do a good amount of networking before they audition. I want to take a moment to say, “easier said then done” for some, imo. </p>

<p>Much of the wisdom out there says to go for one of the best, but lowest cost of attendance, schools you can afford for undergrad. Many people in the business, even many of those teaching at conservatories, recommend LAC’s or state schools with attentive, good music programs for undergrads. That’s the route my son chose. He doesn’t have regrets, but he and I have both noticed that the conservatory undergrad kids and those with certain regional affiliations DO have better networks and better connections than those he knows from more “regionally isolated” non-conservatories.</p>

<p>Furthermore, though he was advised by some to visit with and network with prospective teachers and desired schools prior to applications and/or auditions, he found that to be next to impossible. Most of the prospective grad teachers he contacted prior to auditions either never responded or responded with a polite, “As a general policy, and in fairness to all, I do not give sample lessons or visit with prospective grad students until after acceptances come in – but when the time comes that you are accepted, I hope you will contact me again.” He was not particularly “well-connected,” through no fault of his own, really. The profs’ reactions all seemed fair and fine with him. After all, they had no idea if he’d be worth their time. Of course!</p>

<p>But it does bear mentioning that his experience did not align with the advice he/we received from many well-meaning CC posters over the years. Even more so than undergrad, my son found that he basically had to apply to grad schools “in the blind” and hope for the best! I’ve since wondered if people who say those things are coming from schools or regions that are more naturally “better-connected,” where researching and networking come easier to them. </p>

<p>Btw, my son had no trouble with the “in the blind” process (that he knows about anyway!). And once acceptances rolled in, he had no problem at all getting his prospective professors’ ears. So, it all seems to come out in the wash, assuming that you apply to schools that approximate your “subset of the talent pool.” Still, I wanted to add my familiy’s experience to the mix. </p>

<p>Thanks to all for sharing your wisdom!</p>

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<p>Simplelife—the sort of networking that I generally refer to is tough but absolutely essential in this business. It involves the creation of your own networks.Students should go to concerts, to competitions, to fund raisers, to recitals, auditions and talk to EVERYONE and strive to meet people socially and then professionally. You are right it is harder for some than others. It’s not a business for the shy or socially awkward.It’s not just where you went to school, it’s how well you interact with people. These networks are not found as much as made. </p>

<p>D did not go to a conservatory. And her undergrad school was at what must be one of the least well connected universities in the country. She always heard “whuh…you went WHERE??” Grad school was also not a conservatory but an,intentionally, high profile presence in a large market .( that was one of the main reasons she chose it.)</p>

<p>Every competition and summer program was not a chance to win some money or recognition as much as it was a chance to make connections with other singers on their way up. Want to meet a great teacher?Get to know one of their great students. (yes she got almost all of her potential grad teachers names from good singers at a rather obscure program)</p>

<p>A recent example: when D was in NYC at auditions she interacted with in the hallway with an experienced soprano whom she invited out for lunch to pick her brain . That soprano gave her the names of a half dozen opportunities she could take advantage of that week. One of them actually turned into something wonderful. All from a smile and a corned beef sandwich.</p>

<p>A grad school teacher gave her an important tip. Leave your ego at the door and go to everyone’s recital and everyone’s recital reception. (It does help to really enjoy meeting and interacting with other musicians. )</p>

<p>And of course…you still need that “total package”.</p>

<p>AND…always,always be nice to the accompanist. Collaborative pianists are your friends. REALLY.</p>

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<p>^^^What musica said. As my S is finding out it is a small world in the opera biz, and he went to a small private college in the midwest. He always goes to anything he can, he sees old friends/teachers/coaches/directors, etc, keeps them updated on what he’s up to and hopefully keeps himself in their minds, you never know where an opportunity will come from. He found his grad school teacher from a recommendation from a summer program, best fit/mach ever!</p>

<p>I also agree with being nice to the pianist - they see everything!</p>

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<p>^ and ^^
Okay, if THAT’s what you’re calling “networking,” then I can see your point. My son also got his prospective grad school and grad school teacher recommendations from summer program friends and other peers. He also attends a lot of stuff and keeps in contact with the people he’s met along the way. But most of those people are at roughly his same level or just ahead of him in the process.</p>

<p>I thought you were more or less referring to making personal contacts with the prospective teachers and/or programs themselves. THAT is easier said than done, imo. </p>

<p>Furthermore, my son DID get some less-than-accurate information about some things from his well-meaning peers. He learned that the info was less-than-accurate the hard way.</p>

<p>Though he learned about teacher and school recommendations from people who had “been there” or who had good friends who had “been there,” he didn’t really have a personal connection to any of those teachers or any of those schools when it came time to apply.</p>

<p>(He is not socially awkward in any way, btw.)</p>

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<p>Lorelei–thank you for adding on. I totally agree with what you said in that last post. It is now becoming more about the package deal. </p>

<p>and setumommy–yes, I would say that the reason some of these singers come into auditions with inappropriate rep is because they have been rewarded for it previously. Don’t know if anyone or anyone’s chilluns have done NATs, but Lord you get everything but maybe Philip Glass thrown in there, and that’s where I’ve heard many singers singing what they shouldn’t be… And depending on the region, some singers do get awarded for singing very challenging, mature rep, even if it’s not appropriate. Ach ich fuhl’s for a competition is typically not a good idea for a freshman who is still audibly figuring out her breath support, no matter how pretty the sound (I say this as a general, not specific example). Personally I blame the teachers. They have a responsibility to look out for their singers’ well being. </p>

<p>And musicamusica hit the nail on the head with networking. Smart daughter she has!</p>

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<p>And another general tidbit, when composing emails to teachers or other contacts, use appropriate grammar, punctuation, spelling, perhaps throw in a few big words and avoid utilizing “I” to start the beginning of every sentence. A summer program I attended last summer did a seminar on communications and marketing one’s self. To be honest, I thought it was a no-brainer to be formal, polite, humble, etc. when communicating via email (or telephone for that matter) with others, but apparently manners are becoming a thing of the past with recent generations. A couple coaches from major opera houses in Europe and the States as well as a voice teacher shared some of the emails, voicemails, even TEXTS they had received from people looking to connect with them, and it was appalling. The messages sounded like they were composed by middle school students.</p>

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<p>Repertory decisions are more likely to be appropriate, IMHO, when the singers are in an environment where there is a wider spectrum of ages and maturity levels. The danger of a strictly undergraduate music school is that the opera program will eventually have someone in charge who really wants to do this or that, and the person who has the darkest, deepest, heaviest sound (whatever any of those terms mean pedagogically) will be tapped for the more demanding roles. Teachers at these schools will have a mental file of repertory from their own grad school experiences, and “oh wouldn’t such and such be a nice set for your senior recital” winds up referring to vocal literature requiring more maturity than is possible in a typical undergraduate. From my experience, this is what is most likely to have happened at NATS and other competitions/auditions, i.e. the singers are assigned their music because there is no ongoing reality check about the difference between a pretty good senior and a mature graduate student and what they should be doing. A moderate sized music school with a graduate performance program is a good environment for an undergraduate voice student. Younger singers get to hear how it can be done, what they themselves might want to do in the future, and how others are doing along the way, without being asked to sing inappropriate repertory. Very good undergraduates do get opportunities in this environment, but the right kind.</p>