"Mom/Dad, I want to major in Musical Theater!!" - Then What?

College Majors Musical Theater Major
1

<p>Okay, here's a question for both students and parents. Students, when you told your parents, or parents, when you were told by your child that majoring in Musical Theater was what was wanted, how did they/you react? Great, let's go for it? What, are you out of your mind? Something in between? Students - what did you have to do to convince your folks that this is what you wanted? Parents, what hoops, if any, did you have your child jump through before acquiescing to this request?</p>

<p>I'm interested in understanding the process of the decision. There are ever more and more kids applying to these programs; and from what I've heard and seen, while there are a great number of talented students, there are also many applicants who maybe should have had some more honest guidance steering them in an alternate direction.</p>

<p>I'm asking the question both as a simple matter of curiosity but also in an attempt to perhaps help parents who are at this point trying to help their children (and reassure themselves) with this decision. I just know that there are lots of parents of younger students lurking out there who are anticipating having to deal with this issue in the near future. Maybe we can come up with a set of questions that need to be asked of the potential MT student or some guidelines suggesting what observable talents, qualities or experiences are really "base line" necessary to justify spending those precious college dollars on a degree in the performing arts.</p>

<p>I'm hoping our oh-so-helpful "professional" posters, Doctorjohn, Eve, Mary Ana and Coach C might weigh in with their thoughts on this one.</p>

<p>Thanks in advance for sharing your experiences or ideas!</p>

2

<p>I've been thinking of starting a similar thread myself! I was thinking along of the lines of "Is Passion Enough?" </p>

<p>One problem in setting guidelines is that so many factors seem random. You read about kids who've had the lead in everything they've auditioned for from age 3 on, who may struggle through the audition process, then others who get accepted, never having had a lead in their HS show.</p>

<p>Add to that some of the recent discussions about playing to "type". Is there something in your physical appearance that would limit your ability to be cast? Is there a mismatch between look and voice type? Not only are many people engaged in casting very visual - in a lot of shows, unless you are originating the role, one of the prerequisites is that you fit into the current costume!</p>

<p>Another issue that was addressed a while back on one of the threads - what is the desired outcome of a degree in MT? Based on the students I know - it never occurred to me that the goal would be other than moving to NYC upon graduation, and becoming the next Tony winner - but I've come to learn that may NOT be the end goal for some students.</p>

<p>I spoke recently to someone about how direct you can/should be, in suggesting to someone that perhaps this is NOT the path for them - and the answer was that the best way may be to let them go through the audition process, and learn the hard truth by the results. While there is something to be said for that, those who have gone through the audition process know that between fees, travel expenses, etc., that could be an expensive lesson!</p>

<p>I am also concerned about students who go through the process, applying to the standard "elite few" schools, and have no backup plan in place. Whether that plan may be something theatre-related, or something else they may want to pursue.</p>

<p>AND - one more factor to figure into all this.... How many of us have seen enormously talented people performing on a local level, who have decided that there was some aspect of the business that just didn't mesh with them - a question of lifestyle/locale, the financial instability of the field, the emotional strain of dealing with rejection after rejection.... It is certainly not a life for everyone. The question then is - is it the life for ME?</p>

3

<p>Thanks so much! This is just the kind of thoughtful input I'm looking for. You've already raised so many good questions that people need to think about. I just know this is going to be an interesting discussion!</p>

<p>With regard to guidelines, I'm not really thinking "hard and fast," but more along the lines of good questions to ask the prospective student, much like the great ones you've brought up already. I'm looking forward to some of the responses to your thoughts.</p>

<p>Keep 'em coming. At some point, I'll try to organize them so we'll have a useful tool for the up and comings!</p>

4

<p>I'm not a professional but will just share my thoughts from my own experience as a parent and then also suggestions about this issue. </p>

<p>When I read the first part of the original post, I was thinking, this really never was an issue here. But I do understand and think it is a very important question. So, first on my own end, I can say what happened in my own family where this really was not of issue but then will offer thoughts for others. </p>

<p>For my kids, for one thing, they never came to us asking permission to go to this college or that or which major. We basically support whatever their aspirations are. In the case of my child entering a BFA program for MT, we never really discussed what else. It is hard to explain it but we've known for a long time that her life was the theater. Even her nursery school evaluation talks about her going into this field some day, lol. I guess just over time, I just knew she was going to go to college for this and that was a long held goal. She has been immersed deeper and deeper in this field as the years have gone on. I can't explain it but it is sort of "her life". I can't picture her NOT doing theater. It's like when local people ask where she is going to college and I say she is going for MT, I have to chuckle because anyone would respond, what else? It is like part of her identity. I say it is in her blood. So, we never really had a conversation about what do you want to major in for college. I think she just has been working toward this goal/aspiration right along. Applying for a BFA just followed naturally with her goals and development. So, I can't really answer what our "reaction" was. She never actually asked us. But we'd have supported her any way. We just are not the sort to say, you'll never make it or that field is too difficult or impractical. We want our kids to go into what interests them and where their talents are. We do value education but that has been ingrained I guess from early on and they are self motivated with this stuff. So, to answer the initial questions....my kid did not have to convince me, nor jump through any hoops (I realize that is the scenario for many others, however). She never asked. We just knew and supported whatever she planned on doing. We paid and shlepped her to lessons and all the theater productions and programs over the years. It is not like she ever doubted we'd support this next step in her development/education as a performer. </p>

<p>That said, I think the second half of the Theatermom's post (also picked up on by MusThCC, is an important issue. I do think parents should support their child's dreams and career aspirations and not knock them down for reasons like impractical, etc. But there is the issue of if this is the RIGHT PATH for them or realistic in terms of admissions. THAT is an issue for some families and I'm glad it was brought up here. One issue is that entering a BFA degree involves more than an interest in a major....it is a total commitment to a professional training program. I liken it in part to the decision to apply to an engineering or architecture school. It involves deciding at age 17 what you want to study and what field you wish to enter for a career. MANY (the majority) of high schoolers are not ready yet to make such a commitment to a field. My other child who has an interest in architecture, for instance, was not ready to commit to a five year BArch program because she was not sure she wanted to study it and also such a program involves 3/4s or so of your studies (not a broad education). For her, it was better to enter a liberal arts education with a possible major in architectural studies (not a commitment when applying) and then if she decided she loved it, to go on for a professional degree (grad school). A BFA program is kinda like this decision. The student must commit and know for certain they want this "major" but also to devote the majority or major portion of their coursework to this field in a professional conservatory type program, with less liberal arts offerings (though some BFA degrees do offer more liberal arts than others) but it is not like a BA program that way. I feel that my child who is entering this CAN make that commitment at this age because this is a field she has been immersed in her whole life and can safely say it is her passion. My child who is contemplating architecture has done some things in that area but it is not like a subject you study before college enough to KNOW you want to focus entirely on it. Theater is something you can be involved with in your youth enough to figure out if it is your passion that you can't live without. So, that is the issue over passion or knowing this is your life that you want to devote and commit your studies and career to. </p>

<p>But that alone is not quite enough. I agree with others that not every kid who loves theater is quite the right candidate for BFA admissions. Passion/interest aside......there is a certain readiness to do this. One is skill/training. I would think at a minimum, someone would have had to study voice, acting, and dance...privately or in classes for at least several years to gain skill/competence at a certain level. A year here or there is not competitive for most people (there are always exceptions). Then there is stage experience. While there are exceptions here too (I believe Theatermom's very talented D who goes to UM had not done a lot of shows/roles, just a few), I think overall that it is beneficial to have been working on the stage for some time.</p>

<p>As well, I think there needs to be an assessment of talent. This assessment can be two fold. A student needs to self assess. What kinds of roles have I been getting when auditioning the past few years? How confident and competent do I feel with my singing? my dancing? my acting? In observing my peers, how do I think I stack up? Of the kids that I know who have gone on successfully to BFA programs for MT, where do I see myself amongst them? Have I accomplished similar things that they did before college? The other kind of assessment must be from others (not just parents, sorry, lol). But how do professionals in the field think of your talent and chances for a BFA and for a career on stage? Are they encouraging you to go this path and think you have what it takes? Are you getting feedback about your stage presence or sometimes called "it factor"? Have you entered any award type things and achieved at a high level in your state? nationally? In other words, how competitive have you been beyond your local area? If you are getting state or national awards, being cast in big roles in the region, doing well in programs such as summer ones out of state amongst a more talented crop of kids, and so forth, you have some inkling if you are in the ballpark or not. An interest in this field, along with some lessons and maybe just school shows and playing ensemble, no achievements or awards artistically, no basis of comparison with kids outside your school, and so forth, likely is not going to be competitive enough. It is not this black and white but those are general thoughts. Do you stand out in your school? your community? your state? your summer intensive? nationally? There has to have been significant achievement in theater, along with much training, PLUS drive and passion to even think about entering a BFA program. Do you want to devote yourself 24/7 to this? Can you not even imagine doing anything but this? Is your life the stage? Are you competently trained and have you garnered stage experiences to take it to the next level? Have you also ever lived a life where you are busy all day, all night, and all weekend and all summer doing theater related things almost all that time? I think for kids who have led that kind of lifestyle, at least they know the intensity they are getting into. With my own kid on that last point...there was school all day, and then performing arts stuff all afternoon, all night, all weekend. In summers, she was in an immersion program and lived theater 24/7. Even right now, she is directing a musical theater program and show for kids all day and is in a professional theater production at night. Entering a BFA program will not be the first time she was this busy with this stuff all her waking hours. </p>

<p>So, on the second half of the question in the first post by theatermom, I think these are some of the questions to think about and to assess. There has to be a baseline of passion, skills in all three areas, stage experiences/roles, stage presence, feedback from others in the field about the talent, self assessment amongst peers who have been successful with BFA admissions, achievements at least regionally but preferably higher, having the "it factor", self analysis if this is the only thing you can see yourself doing as opposed to just majoring in it.</p>

5

<p>I am very passionate about the question you pose, theatermom, for very personal reasons having to do with several of my students. I agree wholeheartedly with much of what was already posted, but I think there are some important distinctions and "corrections" to that info necessary, also. I think perhaps a "danger" of a board like this (and I have thought this for a long time) is that each family has such specific experiences relating directly ONLY to THEIR child - now don't kill me, just hear me out. Many, many of the most regular posters here have great knowledge of MT from their children AND their children's MT friends and peers and mentors - but their most personal experience, the one of which they honestly know EVERY detail and nuance, is limited to that of their own child. And EACH success story and failure story in this business - in ANY field, but especially in THIS business - is extremely unique. So while this is a HUGE amount to be gained from reading here - it is absolutely THE BEST resource out there BECAUSE of the personal experiences detailed here - I worry so about younger performers and parents, or people in areas of the country where MT is less available and developed, or those who have passion but fewer financial resources to do extensive training, reading things here, latching on to one or two pieces of info, and giving up as being "not good enough" because they "can't compete" with some of the criteria listed as the "minimum" necessary to have. I know I'm still being kind of abstract, so let me get very specific:</p>

<p>In "identifying" which students I have that might be viable to pursue theatre as a career, I first look for passion and tireless work ethic. I also look for intense intelligence, interpersonal insight, and self-awareness of where they stand both TALENT-wise and PERFORMANCE-ability wise. Those are NOT always the same thing - many young people, especially boys, have talents they do not yet realize or which they are not yet comfortable fully "letting go" - if a boy has been raised in a "manly" environment (in the most stereotypical way), for example, it often just feels "unnatural" for him to express his emotions openly as if sometimes required when performing. So I have had MANY talented students who weren't great "perfomers" in high school, but went on to tremendous professional success (oh yes, you would recognize their names) because they GREW INTO being open and confident. The TALENT was always there - the INTELLIGENCE was always there - but you had to "look harder" to see it when they were young. So, based on that, I always tell my smart, PASSIONATE students who WILL work their butts off to prepare for college auditions to GO FOR IT! Audition at top schools, and let the SCHOOLS make the decision. That's always my students' plan of attack - they line up a few academic options that they would genuinely be "happy" with, then they pick their "dream" theatre schools, and then they might pick an MT safety school of two. Again, my strong feeling is if a kid really has an "it factor" which a particular school feels it can develop, a school will see that right away and offer admission. The schools audition hundreds and sometimes thousands of people each year, and they also each have the experience of admitting talented, resumed JERKS who blow their socks off at auditions but cause problems in their programs for four years - so not only are top schools (who CAN be choosy about whom they admit) GREAT at picking up on this, they are GREAT at deciding if a jerky students' talent is worth risking admitting someone with an attitude a mile long that they MAY NOT change - and by the same token, they are smart about deciding whether a student who is "under-developed" as a performer but shows passion and raw talent is worth the OPPOSITE admissions risk. Keep in mind I am talking TOP schools here - CMU, for example, may take a less-developed singer who is a fierce actor and who shows real singing potential, since their acting program is so strong - but of course they also take many singers who enter sounding amazing already! Again, EACH case is specific and so many factors weigh into an admission decision that you have to be THE STUDENT to fully understand each story - the student AFTER he or she has been in the program for a few years and begins to realize, or even hear firsthand from instructors, why he or she was "picked out."</p>

<p>I guess the point of all of this is that IF you have years of acting, voice, and dance, lots of stage experience, regional and higher achievements, etc. - that can be an indicator of college admissions and professional potential. But it is not a guarantee by ANY means - and NOT having that kind of prep does not ensure that you DO NOT have what it takes. Do people with such backgrounds have an advantage? Sure - and indentified talent. And the parents who have posted to this thread so far have children who I have either seen firsthand or have heard about secondhand from trusted colleagues and who are truly AMAZING performers - but there are many young performers who have the "same kinds" of credentials who are NOT amazing, just big fish in small ponds. So students, don't let yourself be intimdated - do YOUR WORK, LEARN, and STUDY as much as your parents, finances, and geography allow you to. But know that if you are open and bright and smart and a joy to work with, that goes a LONG way in this business, both college-wise AND professionally!</p>

<p>A few more points:</p>

<ol>
<li>Unlike most other fields, almost ANYONE can claim to be a "professional" in theatre and make pronouncements about a students' talent. So be WARY of whom you listen to!!! I have had unbelieveable experiences with "professional" colleagues of mine writing off students when they were in high school as "not having what it takes" when I very much believed in those students BECAUSE they had the factors I detailed above, and clear marketability and talent that was not yet developed. These colleagues were HIGHLY respected theatre "professionals" - yet oh were they wrong! Each student of whom I am thinking achieved top MT program admissions and VERY quick national performance success in MANY venues (tours, Broadway, film, TV). Many "theatre professionals" are either insular, under-educated and non-progressive "kings and queens" of wacky local theatre communities (if you've seen the film "Waiting for Guffman," think of Corky - and if you haven't seen it, GO GET IT NOW!!!; ) ) or bitter former performers who base all judgements on their own frustrations. And this wariness goes for evaluating voice teachers as well - as a voice therapy grad student, I find that more than 50% of teachers teach support and other fundamentals in ways that are COMPLETELY physiologically WRONG. Because ANYONE can claim to be an expert or "voice teacher" - and being a great SINGER does NOT make you a great voice teacher - in fact, sometimes the exact opposite is true, because those who are "naturally gifted" singers have had much less cause to analyze the process of singing.<br></li>
</ol>

<p>So if one or two "experts" discount you, NO MATTER HOW respected they are, but you still have passion and understanding and commitment to the process that you FEEL, EVERY DAY - keep working, and talk to OTHER people - NOT to just seek someone who will tell you "what you want to hear" - but to find someone who's willing to consider what you believe in about yourself and help you develop THAT!</p>

<ol>
<li>I TOTALLY agree with the posts here about understanding that choosing this field is a HUGE commitment! You must LOVE it, because it WILL feel like a job at times and you WILL be faced with huge self-doubt at times - that's just part of it. And it is a job that is about who YOU are more than any other - you put your ACTUAL self on the line to be scrutinzed and picked apart every day - so you have to be willing to withstand that when it SUCKS (pardon the expression) - NOT just when you are having success. Any many of the most successful BFA candidates don't EVER face that UNTIL they get to school - because it is only then that what they need to DEVELOP is pointed out - prior to that, their strengths have often been the focus, and they may face their first real self-doubt over casting or teacher critiques in their BFA program.</li>
</ol>

<p>I said enough for now, I think :) - I hope this helps some of you. Consider ALL that you read here - even MY experiences (and those of the other "Coach"-types here) are "limited" to those of my students: it's just that I have had 40-plus "kids" go through the BFA admission process and subsequent transitions during those years and then the further transition into professional careers - so I have have seen more diversity of experiences firsthand. Students, strive to be self-aware - about your talents, your passion, your motivation for wanting this career in the first place (that's a whole DIFFERENT issue - people who love the process versus people who love applause - yes, both work), your lifestyle needs (stability? family? a house with a yard?), how you would define "success" in theatre, etc. </p>

<p>Thanks, theatermom and others, for discussing such a key and abstract idea!</p>

6

<p>Coach, that is such a wonderful post! We really really need to hear from those in the field about all these matters. Because all that a parent can share here is a personal experience which may not apply to others and is just one perspective. </p>

<p>I also agree firmly with you that even IF you have all the basics that one should have to be "competitive" in the college audition process, it does not guarantee success. I think one should assess if they have the elements needed to enter the fray or be an appropriate realistic candidate. It is still quite chance-y nonetheless. I was very nervous about my child's outcome though I felt she was a realistic candidate, I be no means felt she would definitely get in! But someone should assess if they are appropriate for this kind of program in terms of preparation and intensity and passion and all the rest discussed. Without that, it is harder but still not impossible. I agree that those who might not seem like standouts, often also get in because there was potential that was seen. I think it works both ways. You don't know until you try so people should go for their goals. It is best to examine those goals, feel strongly about it being the thing they feel they must do in their life, and self assess their abilities and achievements if they are ready to enter this selective process. There is part passion but also part being realistic about self evaluation. And if it is in you to do this, then one must try. I think there are many pathways to success in the field and that is why there is no one right way to get there. But there are some things that might increase one's chances but they are not absolute. There are so many stories out there and it is interesting for me to hear how everyone got where they did. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

7

<p>Great topic! D is still bouncing back and forth between visual & performing arts and whether to go for MT as an undergrad or do another major and then go to MT Grad school, but will share our experience...</p>

<p>First, it may help to understand our thought process in supporting the pursuit by our D of a MT career, if you understand I have owned and own several businesses. As a result, my husband's and my personal philosophy is that we want our kids to study whatever they are passionate about, in an environment that inspires them; and we believe we can always help them find a way to make a living utilizing that education or not. In other words, for our family a college degree may or may not be a means to a career. As a result, we [H & I] are not concerned with whether or not she has enough talent to make it financially, just that she is pursuing her dreams and never has to wonder "what if." However, I DO realize in this way we are possibly a minority. </p>

<p>From the time the kids have been young [we have a S too] we have tried to expose them on as deep a level as possible to the things that interest them, while attempting to keep them from being over involved [we have a family rule about number of extracurriculars at any one time until HS, and then it is tied into grades->better the grades the more they can be involved in]. Along with that, they are required to keep and complete commitments [minimum commitment on lessons are 6 mos., if the equipment or instrument is costly, the commitment is longer; on team activities they must complete the season].</p>

<p>Then we try to get them the best/highest level of exposure to their subject of interest, experiences that hopefully will give them a glimse of the good, the bad and the indifferent aspects of their possible path. With our MT D, that has meant a summer intensive for the past two summers, voice lessons for the past 6 years and dance lessons & workshops with top professionals for the past 12 years. </p>

<p>This last school year I thought she was going to change her mind about pursuing MT when she hit her first "less than positive" experience and was not cast in her HS's one and only musical for the year [the only gig in town]. To say she was devastated would be putting it mildly. This may sound awful of me to say, but I was relieved. I KNOW how much rejection and disappointment there is in MT and I thought if one disappointment in casting is going to bump her out of being interested it is better for it to happen sooner rather than when she is going through the admission auditions. To make a long story longer [sorry], she really was not herself for the remainder of the school year [fortunately when she did her auditions for her summer intensive most of the instructors remembered her as a returning student so it was okay]. </p>

<p>At the summer intensive she met several new people who have worked on Broadway and got to hear what they had to go through to get there. This is going to sound weird, but she was practicly giddy as she explained several of the more extreme stories, as if she finally got it that being turned down for the HS musical did not mean she would never make it.</p>

<p>So, I believe the best plan of attack is to try and keep a sense of humor through all this, keep up the support, give them exposure and try to keep a firm grasp on some of the harsh realities of pursuing a MT degree. The truth is, as challenging as getting into an MT program is, it pales compared to getting an MT Career.</p>

<p>Then of course I really scare myself when I remember my own college path and remember that personality-wise my D is very much like me and all this research and angst over her current goals could be gone in 45 minutes:
For the 7 years leading up to HS graduation all I wanted to be was a criminal defense lawyer, period. I was going to major in Poli Sci, period. There was only one college I wanted to attend, so I only applied there [luckily I got in]. Everything I did in HS was geared toward that degree and that path, all my activities and extracurriculars. EVERYONE knew I was going to be a lawyer [HS reunions are funny], I research and discussed with numerous lawyers and legal friends of my parents. 1st class of my freshman year of college was in Poli Sci. After 50 minutes, I left the classroom and said to myself, "That was excruciating and I cannot take 7 years of that!"</p>

<p>Bottomline is everything turned out great, I found my niche and my passion a year later and haven't looked back. I believe it will be fine for our kids too, they will find their way as long as they are safe in the knowledge that we are there for them.</p>

<p>Sorry about the novel, feeling philosophical as it is my birthday, humor me :o</p>

8

<p>Ooops-
Just realized that you were looking for Non-parents to weigh-in. Sorry.</p>

9

<p>Happy B-day, BelieversMom!</p>

<p>I believe a key is the "back-up" college planning. Students should have a list of schools they are interested in, and this should include the less competitive schools (ones with more accessible admission). </p>

<p>If the parents are willing to fund the search, fabulous. If not, the student is going to have to get a job ASAP (because this process will be expensive). Just remember, all the money may pay off (in admission) or not (no guarantees). As long as one weighs the odds for themself, and makes the commitment to spend regardless of outcome, then I think there will be less devastation potential.</p>

<p>Also, I feel compelled to point out that for women, there is a "physical standard" issue (because we are involved in such a visually-oriented field). I know that (in many programs) a girl with weight issues has a lower chance of admission...sad, but true. At my school, we are honest with our up-and-coming students about this issue. They should be dancing at least 4 hours each day, and health concerns about weight (too little or too much) are factored in to our admission decisions - but if they are dancing 4 hours or more each day and still have a weight problem, they are likely to still have it if we accept them in the program, meaning at least a short-term potential for continuing weight issues. </p>

<p>In the end, it now boils down to the fact MT actresses must be able to be costumed and presented to the audience as the "American ideal" of health, youth, energy and pizazz. This is the "generic chorus girl" image that will likely get these students the bulk of their early work.</p>

<p>I caution individuals with weight issues to address them early. I know that this can be a consideration when casting; and that it can likewise be a consideration when looking at a prospective pool of very talented students for admission.</p>

<p>eve</p>

10

<p>I should also point out that MT is one of the most expensive educations in terms of supplies that I know of. We don't require a ton of textbooks, but we DO require the students to get sheet music, CDs and DVDs to observe, tickets to our mainstage productions, shoes, shoes, shoes, rehearsal clothing (jackets, skirts, corset-like undergarments, etc.), sometimes costume accessories for presentations/recitals, etc. It is very, very expensive!</p>

<p>And the teachers don't care if the student has to choose between food and buying that "required" brand of taps and a new pair of character shoes that are in the correct color for that faculty member's requirements. If it is a requirement for the course for all students, you will not be an exception.</p>

<p>So get ready and put some extra money aside for these continuing expenses.</p>

<p>eve</p>

11

<p>Wow! What great responses! I'm so excited about this discussion! Believersmom, your input was wonderful and absolutely desired. I'm looking for a broad range of respondents - students, parents, professionals - all perspectives have value.</p>

<p>Keep 'em coming!</p>

<p>PS Believersmom - Happy Birthday! Today is my husband's birthday as well. Gotta love those Leo's!</p>

12

<p>When S came to us and said he wanted to major in MT my husband and I looked at each other and said "Thank God!" Our S is just not an academic and we were so worried he would go to college and not finish because he wasn't motivated. It isn't that he's not smart or can't do the work - he just never saw the point! Other than English, academics always took a back seat to theater and music. He sang in every choir, played in the band, performed in every school play and musical, performed in professional shows, played gigs with his rock band - and that's what drove him. He could work tirelessly - 18 hour days if music and theater were involved. But given a biology lab project - forget it! So when he said he wanted to major in MT, we were so glad - we knew he would pursue it with every fiber of his being. Our only requirement was that he get a college degree. He knows the life is hard, that success will be improbable BUT he's willing to give it a shot. He also knows he probably wouldn't want to act forever - it's a tough life for having a fmaily. He also has a back up plan - he LOVES teaching. He's interned and taught at theater camps and knows he'd love teaching theater and English at the high school level. So he figures if an MT career eludes him, he will go back to school and get certified (lots of great programs to do so rather painlessly) and be perfectly happy as a teacher (with some performing on the side of course!). </p>

<p>I would say to parents - be sure your child is realistic - not just about getting into an MT program and not even about "making it" but also what the actual acting life is like. I would also say - if they get the undergrad degree, there are so many non-acting paths still open to them: law school, grad school (in a variety of subjects), teaching, arts administration.They are not dooming themselves to a life of misery and abject poverty any more than the Philosophy major or the General Communications major.</p>

13

<p>Thank you theatermom for starting such a thought provoking thread. I must tell you that your topic/question you posed percolated through my mind over and over today. What a great subject!!!</p>

<p>The MT CC posters above have been eloquent with their viewpoints and experiences. I think one of the most invaluable points shared is something CoachC wrote: </p>

<p>"In "identifying" which students I have that might be viable to pursue theatre as a career, I first look for passion and tireless work ethic. I also look for intense intelligence, interpersonal insight, and self-awareness of where they stand both TALENT-wise and PERFORMANCE-ability wise."</p>

<p>All I can say is, "WOW!" you couldn't have hit the nail any harder on the head! Bless you for being so intuitive and visionary!!</p>

<p>Personally speaking, there was no other career choice for my Ss....sure they <em>could have</em> pursued other avenues, but they would have denied their passion. How senseless is that?</p>

<p>Most people who ask what their major is don't blink an eye at what they are pursuing....many who know my guys realize that anything else would be against the grain. Occaisionally however there is that "safe" soul who wants to know "What in the H@$$ are you going to do with a BFA degree in MT?" My Ss tackle that question with grandest candor and equate it to being entrepenuers....out to promote themselves as actors, just as one would go into business for themselves with some innovative product or service. (and, no, not necessarily together...had to throw that one in. LOL. That's one of those "twin" questions)</p>

<p>Over the weekend our local performing arts center booked Christopher Cross to perform. Our newspaper had the chance to interview him about his career, but the interview morphed into words of advice to those who aspire to break into the music industry. The article adds to the discussion on this thread. Here is the link if anyone is interested....</p>

<p><a href="http://www.gazetteextra.com/cross080805.asp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.gazetteextra.com/cross080805.asp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Thanks again theatremom for a great topic!! I love it when I am provoked to percolate!! :)</p>

<p>SUE aka 5pants</p>

14

<p>Loved your post. And I can relate to the point about not imagining the child NOT pursuing this. </p>

<p>Anyway, I know this is off topic but I read the interview you linked to and I am curious how Mr. Cross mentioned his thirteen year old starring in a school production of Hairspray. I did not realize the rights for that show were out. I have never heard of it being done (besides on Bdway or Tour). Wow.</p>

<p>Susan</p>

15

<p>Wow, these posts are worrying me. All of my roles have been ensemble or supporting, and I do have a weight problem. I should probably lose a good 50 pounds to be more marketable, and while I have tried immensley to lose weight (I lost 15 pounds in May/June, I'm on a <1200 calorie diet, I dance three times a week), no more weight is coming off. I know this might hurt me in the audition process. In fact, it's probably the only thing that will hurt me. But I can't help it. My goal is to lose 30 pounds by January, so I'll be thinner for most of my auditions. But how much is my weight problem really going to hurt me? I'm also tall (5'11''), so I don't look as huge as someone at the same weight who is an average height. Still, I'm worried. Any advice or tips on how to lose weight without spending money for a gym/excercise equipment? Marching band just started up for me as well, and I'll be taking jazz and tap during the school year, so excercise doesn't seem to be my main problem. My weight is the only thing stopping me from being sure I will succeed. Can anyone help?</p>

16

<p>Be<em>a</em>Star:</p>

<p>As for the weight, it sounds like you are doing all that is SAFELY possible - limiting calories, without starving your body for sustenance - and exercising regularly. Six pounds a month is about all you can hope for, while remaining healthy and hoping to keep it off... Just be sure that you are getting proper nutrition in those 1,200 calories. And check in with your doctor every couple of months to insure that your body is handling the loss regime well.</p>

<p>If you can dance more often than three times a week, that would help. If you could jog or "power walk" for 45 minutes on your off-days, that too would help. Also, swimming is an excellent aerobic exerice, and one that is relatively easy on your body - if you can do this activity (depending on weather temperatures and facilities available to you), I highly recommend it. You can "make your own" weights, using empty plastic milk jugs and filling them with water (adding more water as your endurance builds), so this is also an option (easiest for upper body conditioning, as the feet don't hold those little handles very easily).</p>

<p>:)</p>

<p>I wish I could say that "tall girls carry weight better," but I don't believe that is true. Sorry for the bad news there. The GOOD news is that if you are more talented and/or promising than another student who doesn't have a weight issue, they will likely opt for you - talent wins out.</p>

<p>As to the chorus and supporting roles as your only experience, I wouldn't worry too much - as you are tall, it is very hard to find a leading man to "match" you with; this is the case in many H.S. programs. But only you and your teacher/coach can tell if you might be marketable talent-wise for the schools you are interested in.</p>

<p>Where are you hoping to apply? This will help others give advice as to the odds and challenges and trends of admission in those schools specifically.</p>

<p>Hoping we can be of more specific help to you after your response to the above question.</p>

<p>:)</p>

<p>eve</p>

17

<p>Be a Star....
A couple thoughts for you. Some of the things being discussed here are some basic factors to consider if one is competitive for admissions as well as marketable in the field. These are guidelines or baselines but are not black and white and absolute. If you don't match up to some of them, that does not mean you don't have a chance or that you should not go for it. It might mean in a couple areas, these are weaker things or not as much in favor. It might mean that it would help to see your college list to make sure you have these "reaches" on it (go for it!) but also realistic or safer options too. Overall, talent is going to be the hugest factor here so none of us know that part about you. </p>

<p>On the two things you brought up.....one: weight. I agree with Eve in the sense that looks/weight are important in this field. It surely is easier to get in if one is not overweight. Being overweight is just a thing that is less in your favor. BUT....I also believe that in theater, there are ALL types of bodies because of the nature of the field. There are character actors, all types are needed. It is just that an overweight person has less options for parts or for chorus. But overweight people still make it in theater. I hope you get what I mean. It is less favorable to be overweight....less slots will go to someone of that body type but still some programs would take you. I don't think some will such as CCM as they emphasize healthy slimmer bodies. But just to tell you, when we were observing a ballet class at Boston Conservatory (for MT BFA students), I was pretty surprised to see many girls who were overweight. I have visited some other programs and seen a couple girls who were not thin. Not a lot but some. So, it is not impossible to get in if overweight but again, it is not one of the things going for you. It is like someone with poor SATs or some other thing, has to build on some of their strengths to compensate for this "strike" against them. Not impossible to do but it is easier to have each of these things more "safely" in the ballpark. So it is easier to be considered if no weight problem. Less roles in shows are available and less slots in a BFA program are as well but still there are places for your body type in theater. By the way, I truly applaud you for trying to lose weight and I know how very difficult that can be.</p>

<p>The other thing you brought up was not having ever played a lead (I am assuming you were speaking of your school productions?). If you meant adult productions, then usually youth is not a lead (unless we are talking Annie or something like that!). I think you meant school, not sure. Again, some of the questions or guidelines to think about that I wrote in my earlier post are not absolute. People who have played ensemble can get into a theater program. The thing is, you have to self assess how you are doing in your neck of the woods. If you are on par talent wise with several kids in your own community and then are trying out for a BFA program that is only taking 10 girls (some take even less) or taking 5 % of applicants, you are up against many many girls and it is going to be hard to stand out if you do not locally. At these auditions will be lots of girls who were leads or the ones standing out in their respective regions and even all of THEM will not get in, and then there will be tons more girls who play ensemble back home and so forth. So, girls who play ensemble usually at home CAN get in (cause they are admitting you based on TALENT, not which roles you have played before) but by the same token, looking at how you fare locally is a guideline of comparison when assessing yourself amongst other talented girls locally because the whole deal is much bigger in the pool of applicants from all over. Also, there is something to be said for experience. Playing ensemble is not the same as learning a character role. The more experience one gets at acting, the more they grow as an actor. So, the theatrical credits do not get one admitted so much as being a great way to gain experience and build skills on stage. So, that is why I offered that as a guideline....to see how you match up with talent in your own region and then realize the talent pool at college auditions is much much bigger and they take very few so those few have to stand out in terms of talent over LOTS and LOTS of other girls who are also very talented. Another thing to look at is if you know any girls who have gotten into BFA programs. Look at what their talent is like, what things they've done and try to compare yourself to them and think about if you are on a similar track. As mentioned previously, try to get feedback from those in the field....a director, a voice teacher, etc. and ask them if they think you are competitive to be considered for a BFA program. </p>

<p>Wanting this field very much and having talent is definitely big. But there must be some assessment of where you stand even locally and how you might think you might stand in a much bigger group of kids from all over who all love theater and many who are accomplished in it. Sometimes, when someone goes to one of these summer theater intensive programs or pre college programs, it is a great eye opener to see the talent out there from outside one's own community and also to see how they fare amongst such talent. It is helpful in assessing how you might fare in the applicant pool. </p>

<p>As with any applicant, make sure you go for your dreams but realistically find other options, plus safeties. If you have a couple things not in your favor, it does not mean do not go for it but you have to be very strong in the other aspects to overcome any of the weaker ones. If you are an amazing actress for instance, that might overcome the weight. If you have an outstanding voice and presentation, perhaps you just were not cast as leads back home because you did not "fit" the roles in those particular plays. Basically, however, your chances become greater in college admissions if everything lines up or you meet the criteria in all the areas that will be measured. Even those who have THAT, still do not always get in because there are so few slots available. If you know what Ivy League admissions are like, I will draw an analogy. A kid with 1600 SATS (the old SATs) and who is valedictorian and has achieved at a high level in an extracurricular passion is a more likely candidate than a kid with 1350 SATs, a 3.6 GPA, not the hardest curriculum available at their school, and who has done a few ECs but not stood out in any of them or not achieved in a significant capacity in them. The first kid has a much better chance. But even that first kid very well may NOT get in. Many kids with that first profile get turned down by elite schools such as Ivy League ones because there are more talented kids like that than slots available. So that kind of kid is not guaranteed to get in by any means. The second profile kid often can be admitted too but the chances are less probable than the first kid but some do get in because they have something the school sees in them that they can offer to the class. The first kid's odds may be greater but she does not necessarily get in. It is easier to enter the game if you are in the ballpark realistically for admissions but it does not mean you get in. If you don't have all the attributes to begin with, it is not impossible but merely means less odds or chance. So, when one enters the game, they must assess their odds and build a list of reach options and safer options because we are talking very very selective admit rates at the most competitive programs. </p>

<p>Stay the course. Go for it, but get feedback from those in the field about where they see you standing and your competitiveness for admssions (we can't do that as we do not know your talent) and then if you want to share your list of schools here, perhaps some can give you feedback on how realistic it is to some degree. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

18

<p>Hi Eve,</p>

<p>I have a question about something in one of your earlier posts on this thread. You said that kids should be dancing 4 hours a day, every day, yes? Is this the norm for MT's in your program? Is this what you expect of applicants to your program? </p>

<p>I'm asking because I always think of my daughter has having had quite strong and intense dance training from the age of 5 until she graduated high school. Her training was almost exclusively ballet until the age of 15 when she started thinking about MT and added some jazz and tap into the mix. But even at the height of her training, when she was often dancing 7 days a week (ballet technique classes 6 days a week, either variations, pointe or partnering added on each day, jazz and tap on Saturdays and often some kind of rehearsal on Sunday), I don't think she REGULARLY danced more than 2 1/2 to 3 hours a day. And given her other committments and academic demands, that was a real stretch. I know that pre-professional ballet students often take two technique classes a day plus the other specialty classes, but do you really think that 4 hours of dance every day for MT's is necessary, healthy or even possible given their schedules?</p>

<p>My D placed into a more advanced class and found room in her schedule (I don't know how.......) so was able to take technique class 4 times a week, but I know that freshman MT's at UM usually dance just twice a week in the beginning ballet class. As UM sophomores, the dance committment increases markedly and they will all take an appropriate level of ballet, what UM calls Broadway "styles" and tap, so they will dance 5 days a week, but nowhere approaching 4 hours per day.</p>

<p>I know it's a bit off my own topic here, but I'd love your comments as I'm guessing there are a few beginning or non-dancers out there who read your post and are feeling a bit intimidated right about now. Thanks!</p>

19

<p>Just a slight correction to what theatermom said about UM freshman MT ballet (the "regular," non-advanced class): that class is a THREE day-a-week class, one-and-a-half hours each. I just verified this with a rising sophomore who took it last year and also a rising junior who took it two years ago. </p>

<p>Just wanted to say that, so students considering UM wouldn't begin to doubt the intensity of "non-advanced" dance training at UM. If you need ballet foundation work, you get it as a freshman - they kick beginner/intermediate dancer's butts :) (in a good way, of course) - and then, as theatermom says, sophomore year begins much more intensity of time commitment in dance training.</p>

<p>Another note to worried "non-dancers" who aspire to be admitted to UM - in their audition, they look FIRST for ballet technique (the audition begins with a barre), thereby identifying the "dancers." But honestly (and this is the case EVERYWHERE) after that, the auditors KNOW who the truly-trained dancers are, and they can focus on determining which of the non-dancers shows body potential, WORK ETHIC, WILLINGNESS TO TRY, and most of all, ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE a CHARACTER and ACT through physicality. So non-dancers, PERFORM when you are taught a combination - don't worry about your feet, etc. You can't "fake" lack of technique - it's like singing technique, the auditors will know within a minute or two (LITERALLY) what your technique is like. But you can show all of the other attributes I just listed and they will be interested in TRAINING you if you kick butt in singing/acting!</p>

20

<p>I actually was thinking the same thing as you, theatermom. Your D as well as my own were pretty serious dance students from a young age. Though my child danced at least five times per week, it was about for the same amount as your D...around 2 1/2 hours. I can't see being able to do four AND also doing the other skill development involved in MT as well as going to school and homework. Any girls at our dance studio who danced more than 2 1/2 hours per day were JUST focused on dance and nothing else. My D, being a MT kid, also traveled to voice lessons (for us the travel to ALL these things added hours per day too). She also was always rehearsing a production so that could be anywhere from 2 to 5 hours per day. The weekends were the same. During senior year, there was an acting lesson far away each week to prep for college auditions. She also plays two instruments so there were those lessons and practice. And select choir outside the school day. Then of course, she did have to go to school, lol. And in order to be competitive for college admissions, she was taking the hardest classes available and all the homework that that entails. I cannot picture a more full schedule and she was a dancer, like your daughter is as well. I can't imagine doing four hours of dance per day IF the kid is also taking voice, acting, piano, and rehearsing theatrical productions (all of which seem to be good elements of training for a musical theater life). So, I too have that same question about the four hour thing. I had thought that your D and mine (and many others here or that I know) being such active dancers were already dancing more than the norm as we have met so many with NO dance background or very little or just one discipline. As well, while I know that dance is a significant component of my D's BFA program, I do not believe it involves four hours per day. I think they take ballet, jazz, and tap freshman year three days per week. I did not think that four hours per day was the norm but I'd be curious to hear more about this. </p>

<p>Susan</p>