Mom, humanities majors are NOT artsy bums!

Parents Forum
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<p>I am actually not a parent, but this post deals with a dilemma between me and one of my parents.</p>

<p>Ok, it makes sense to major in something that you like and something in which your strengths lie, right? In college I'm considering majors like English language and lit, Comparative lit, Spanish language and lit, History, Art History, Anthrolpology, and Area/Ethnic/Cultural studies (i.e. Asian studies, Latin American studies, etc). My verbal skills are advanced (99th %ile in SAT verbal), I've succeed in English, History, and foreign language classes in high school, and I'm curious and interested about these subjects. But my mom has something more science-related and career-oriented in mind. She claims that my prospective majors "won't bring food on the table" and that I'll have a hard finding employment and supporting myself when I'm older. She wants me to pursue pre-professional studies in college. I can't blame her--she grew up in a household and culture in which it was very important to have a stable (and predictable!) future; many of her family members of physicians. With my mediocre math/science skills, pre-med would be a poor choice for me--the required calculus and physics courses would kill my GPA. How should I explain to my mom that the next four years are going to be about ME and discovering MY interests? And that comparative lit, art history, etc. aren't pointless majors, and have good job prospects? Thanks!</p>

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<p>Research the job opportunites and show her! I feel for you. I have the same concerns about my son but at least for now I'm going to let him decide. Maybe that's because he has made no progress toward deciding! </p>

<p>Good luck. Moms are stressed out, too.</p>

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<p>the majors that you've mentionned are the types that law schools look for....if that's something that interests you......</p>

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<p>I'm going to be crude and poor taste here, but here it goes:</p>

<p>I majored in philosophy and I make lots and lots and LOTS of money, enough to put me in at least the top 5% of income earners in the US. No, I don't do anything with philosophy per se, but liberal arts/writing training trains you for lots of ways to make a living! None of the doctors on my street make anywhere near what I make - but they do make a lot, and most of them majored in liberal arts before going to med school!</p>

<p>But so what? If my kid were to make 1/10 of what I make and was happy and doing good in the world, I would be all for it, 100%.</p>

<p>*** I really don't mean to sound like I'm bragging. Hey, I'm not in the top 1%, which is way, way WAY above the 5% average! I am just making a point!</p>

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<p>Ditto. Well, except for the lots and lots and lots of money. :)</p>

<p>More like "a comfortable upper middle class existence". I went to college as a business major and fell in love with the humanities. Ended up as a history major and went to law school. I think I could have been just as happy, and probably just as successful, doing many other things as well. I am very happy with my education and the intellectual curiousity it sparked.</p>

<p>Try to get your hands on some of Loren Pope's books. Not particularly for the "Colleges That Change Lives" or "Beyond the Ivy Leagues" college information, but because he spends a lot of time extolling the benefits of a true liberal arts education.</p>

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<p>Until I went to college I literally had no idea that there was anything else to study but liberal arts....I'd never met anyone who'd NOT studied exactly what you're talking about.....and they all did just fine in life....Liberal Arts "teaches you how to learn to live, not how to earn a living" as my college motto goes, but you'll earn a living later, I promise......Nedad's right......you'll be able to express yourself well on paper and in person (no multiple choice tests there!)......Good luck to you!</p>

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<p>I think when you are paying for school either through scholarships. loans what have you, you have every right to have the final decision where you attend school and what you study.</p>

<p>But when you are asking parents to make a substantial financial investment, it is prudent for them to have some idea of how long it will take you to attain your degree, and the marketability of that degree.
I had this discussion with my daughter. She has attended top private schools K-12, on scholarship ( this did NOT mean we didn't pay anything! ;) ) under the assumption that the best education was the best preperation for life. She had always been talented in the arts, and was looking at art schools for after high school. I went along with that, but I also required her to talk to practicing artists as well as researching what the field would entail to make a bare min living.
She ultimately decided that she was not ready to make a decision of art school vs. college and took a year off after high school. After her year, she decided on attending a college and majoring in biology with the goal of going into biotech, as she found it was easier to do art on the side than biology!
When you are thinking about going into a field that may require a graduate degree to continue in that field ( art history/anthro/history) it is a good idea to know that upfront as it may affect your choice of undergrad school when you think about how long you will be paying school loans.
If you want to be someone who is actually working in the field, as opposed to someone who is taking 4 years of classes that interest them, and then isnt against getting a job at Starbucks or AT & T, then talk to people who are doing what you want to be doing and find out the different paths and education that they have to get them there. You may even find out about fields that you didn't know existed!</p>

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<p>nedad:</p>

<p>What do you think is average salary for top 10% earners? Is it somewhere around 100,000 figures? I am just curious as would like to know if with my grad school degree where do I stack up. Any link provided will be appreciated.</p>

<p>EG: You will be better off pursuing your interest rather than struggling with math and science. However immigrant parents like their kids to have stability as they themselves do not have family support to fall back. Good luck to you kido :)</p>

<p>One more thing I am an Indian but somehow think I would have done better in life with a liberal art degree. Science is just useless in this country as more and more manufacturing takes place outside.</p>

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<p>To the original poster - I think your interests can easily be channeled into a lucrative career - and I don't think you have to decide that career right now - but by being involved in those areas - doors will open for you and you will find that place where you belong. But grad school will most likely be where you specialize in that final career area of your choice and interest. I agree with the poster who had the idea of doing some research in the areas you have interest in - and to share that with your parents as well.</p>

<p>I have to disagree with the poster who says that parents have a say in the choices of career for their kids - opinions are fine but the choice is with each individual student - yes many of us parents are footing the bills for this great education they are receiving, but....... we are not our children and most of us were not forced to pursue careers in a field that our parents chose for us or directed us to. We cannot live our lives thru our kids - we need to let go and let them make their own futures</p>

<p>I find it disturbing to expect kids to KNOW what they want to do for the rest of their lives during their teen years - I know - there are many kids who think they do know and some that actually do know - but part of the college experience is finding that out also. A liberal arts background may be the backbone for many of these kids futures - they usually do find that one thing that holds their interest and directs them to their futures. Our generation needs to back off and let them do this - most of us had the opportunity to choose our own future - now it is time for this next generation to do the same.</p>

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<p>It seems like your parents believe the step to a future career is to be in a pre-professional major. What they may not realize is that a liberal arts degree is also a stepping stone to many fine careers, some involving graduate school, some not. Many businesses hire graduates with liberal arts degrees. Many types of graduate schools admit kids with humanities liberal arts degrees. An educated person who works toward goals is going to be successful. </p>

<p>I have one kid going for a professional undergraduate degree, albeit in a field where is it very very difficult to "make it"...BFA in Musical Theater. I have another child who wanted a liberal arts degree and currently has an interest (not yet set in stone) to go into architectue but chose NOT to enter a five year professional degree program (BArch) because she not only not ready to commit at age 17, but also wanted to have a broad liberal arts education as she likes many things. She may major in architectural studies but in a liberal arts degree program and if she did go on in this field, would need to go to graduate school. However, I am not concerned. She is getting an education, exploring possible fields or careers and each step is a stepping stone toward her future. I don't care what she majors in and I know she will eventually have a career and the undergraduate degree is not going to make or break what that eventual choice may be. So, I do have one kid going into a training type program aimed at a career and one in a liberal arts degree (though has a possible future career plan but it is not set and that is fine). </p>

<p>What YOU may want to do is to try to get some written information from your college that demonstrates what/where graduates with a humanities liberal arts degree ended up doing upon graduation. My guess is that some went onto graduate programs and some found work that was not directly related to the actual major (ie., philosophy) but a good job that wanted an educated worker. If you can educate your parents that your undergraduate degree does not HAVE to be pre-professional in nature or training for a particular career, but that this path of a liberal arts degree certainly DOES lead to a future that is promising, that MIGHT help. I think it is reasonable that they would want you to explore fields and options and possibilities but ultimately you need to study what INTERESTS YOU. I think if you explore internships and other things like that and start thinking of your next goals, you'll be fine even IF your major is one in humanities. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>Colleges and universities are very aware of that there are people out there who think the humanities and liberal arts are useless.....so they've made a concerted effort to have internship and alumni mentor programs available to their undergrads......as Susan wrote.....check these out to show your family.</p>

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<p>When I got to accounting it was all over. No business major for me. I didn't even bother to study for the final. Majored in history even went to grad school in history because it was fun and I thought I wanted to be an academician. I had a thirty year career in the Federal government. My wife went to grad school in social work. She is now the chief of a branch in the Federal government that distibutes half a billion per year to the states.</p>

<p>We live in one of the most expensive parts of the country. We sent a kid to a unique and costly private school for 13 years, and now to one of the most expensive colleges in the country. We have a house in the Northern Virginia suburbs, three cars, two timeshare weeks, and we go to Europe every other year. We have very nice pensions. </p>

<p>The cars aren't the most expensive; we didn't make as much money as others we knew; the house is not the biggest, but who cares? I'm not exactly sure what else I could have consumed. We often made a difference. It's been a great life.</p>

<p>So tell me again, what's the problem with majoring in the humanities or social sciences?</p>

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<p>I'm going to take something of a contrarian view - some humanities majors are artsy bums, some drive taxi cabs, and a number (maybe many) are still living off Mom and Dad's dole after graduation! Your parents probably want to keep you out of those groups.</p>

<p>My counsel is like Ekitty's, you need to do hard career research, and present your findings to your parents. Not everyone has to be a doctor or a lawyer to make a comfortable living, you just have living expenses less than your income (by the way, THAT is the great secret to life :)). Your job is not to argue with your parents, but to go to college, take a variety of courses (Yes, including biology or chemistry or calculus or economics, it is too soon to abandon those courses), and use the resources of your college, the library, the internet, the career center, the alumni network, clubs and activities, to decide what you enjoy doing and learn how you can turn that enjoyment into a living.</p>

<p>Also, while I agree with JeepMom and Nedad, that was NOT how I was raised. I was expected to go to college with a job/career in mind, hopefully with a plan to finish in 3 years. College was not about growing up and finding yourself, and developing intellectually and as an individual. For my parents in the late 70s, college was about preparing for a job, you should already be grown up, wasn't I out of high school and on my own? Many completely reasonable, rational people would agree with this today, not everyone has the luxury (Yes, guys, it is a luxury, believe me) of a liberal arts education - some people need to get their nursing degree or teaching degree or accounting, etc and get to work.</p>

<p>One thing my Mom always told me, that I have passed on to my daughter, although it doesn't seem to hit home with her yet - whatever you do in college or study in college, be sure you can support yourself, somehow, afterwards. You never want to find yourself dependent on some man (her words, remember this was 1976) for support, you want to be able to make your own way if you have to - that is still good advice, except today, for many 20somethings replace "man" with "parents".</p>

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<p>nedad,</p>

<p>Good for you; it is crass to talk money but this is a common misconception about Liberal Arts that needs to be answered.</p>

<p>I am in your boat too. My husband & I both studied English Lit and we have both made <em>great</em> incomes in different fields. And we've been able to be our own bosses, giving us the freedom to live how & where we want to, which is even more important to me than money.</p>

<p>Liberal Arts majors can easily have healthy 6-figure salaries... and even 7 figures. If you can think, write, be creative, and forge your own path there are plenty of great careers. </p>

<p>Follow your heart for your major and follow your heart for your career. Passionate, happy, directed people usually find success.</p>

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<p>Cangel, one difference I see today compared to way back when in our time, is that an undergraduate degree is about on par with what it meant to be a high school graduate in the old days. Now, for many professions, one must go to graduate school and an undergraduate degree is not always the ticket to a career yet. Therefore, the undergraduate major, in liberal arts, is still a stepping stone to a career. Liberal arts degrees can go into the business, law, health, education, etc. worlds. Many need to go onto graduate school for a future career. A BA these days is not worth what it used to be. Also, it is not like anyone is advising that this young person not give a thought to her future or career. I think she could be exploring possible career avenues and also doing internships and thinking of next steps and future goals. I know my oldest will be getting a BA degree and my feeling is that she will be going to graduate school. While her major is not set yet, she is in freshman year, exploring courses in her possible major and in fact, is planning on doing a summer program that is meant for those who want to explore/discover this field to see if they want to go into it (though she would need to go to graduate school if she stays with this field)....this summer program is at Harvard Design School. But she still is getting a liberal arts degree. I still believe this does not mean she is not looking to the future. I think there does need to be long term goals and such and always exploring possible paths and fields. But a humanities degree CAN lead to a bright future without grad school but very well might require grad school because today an undergraduate degree is not as "high" as it used to be. It is almost like what a high school diploma used to be. So, kids should not ignore thinking of a career and exploring possibilities and doing internships and such, but they should be able to study humanities and know that such a path CAN lead to a successful future. I mean even English majors do go onto things like law school, publishing, journalism, business, teaching, etc.</p>

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<p>How about a compromise. Humanities majors are not ruled out by medical schools - in fact, many LIKE to see an undergraduate degree in something besides bio/chem. Tell your Mom that you will not rule out med school at this point, that you will consider taking at least SOME science courses to leave the option open. No promises, just let her know that you won't be closing the door on HER dreams entirely by pursuing your interests. </p>

<p>I would also suggest that you look into internship opportunities related (or not) to your areas of interest at each school you are considering. Show them to your mother - many department web sites also list info. about the fields their grads end up in - another way to show her that you will not end up penniless on the streets if you follow your heart.</p>

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<p>where I am coming from
I was not advised what courses to take in school. I attended school in a district with junior high 7-9 and high school which was 10-12. As a 9th grader, I did not know I should be taking courses to continue in high school and college, I just took what I wanted. A little this a little that. same thing in high school, but because I had already estabished that I was not on an academic track, I was steered to less challenging english/history courses which then affected my schedule as they were the same time as the interesting arts courses. I didn't finish high school and I didn't attend college for many years. I would have enjoyed having someone take more of an interest in courses I was taking, and my daughter attends a college with a very defined curriculum and core class requirements. as one of the profs said, "if they knew what they should be taking , they would be profs not students" I don't go that far, but I think degrees mean more when the student is either hyper motivated and organized, or when the college has very clear distribution and core requirements for degrees.
I don't like when someone has a $160,000 degree but hasn't taken beyond history 101 or substitutes a language for a math class ( I will never understand that one)
I acknowledge that you don't necessarily need to have any focus in mind even after you graduate to be successful,but I also know lots of people with degrees from good colleges, including graduate degrees who are un/underemployed.
My daughter, for example, is currently taking a class at a local community college along side several other people who are recent graduates from LACs back east, who now need classes in more practical applications so that they can change fields/get a job.
I am not saying don't get a degree in what you love, but be aware that if you are an English major you may be trying to live on articles for the local neighborhood paper, and if you majored in dance you might end up getting a massage therapy certificate so that you can be employed around your performances. I think we would be doing kids a disservice if we didn't encourage them to broaden their options.
Knowledge broadens your options.</p>

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<p>"""Also, while I agree with JeepMom and Nedad, that was NOT how I was raised. I was expected to go to college with a job/career in mind, hopefully with a plan to finish in 3 years. College was not about growing up and finding yourself, and developing intellectually and as an individual. For my parents in the late 70s, college was about preparing for a job, you should already be grown up, wasn't I out of high school and on my own? Many completely reasonable, rational people would agree with this today, not everyone has the luxury (Yes, guys, it is a luxury, believe me) of a liberal arts education - some people need to get their nursing degree or teaching degree or accounting, etc and get to work."""</p>

<p>Being a child of the 60's myself - I was NOT expected to go to college - I was expected to contribute to the family or to support myself in some way. Being a very young high school grad at that time - as are both of my kids - my options were somewhat slim for a while - tho I did finally figure out where I belonged and started my own pursuit - on my own and by that time I was in my early 20's. The expectation for my kids in this generation is admitedly quite different - but not expecting them to KNOW what they would do for life - but at least having a clue of what they did NOT want to do. It took both of them a bit of time - tho not that long - to find their general area of interest and to begin their pursuit of happiness. Times have certainly changed!!!</p>

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<p>I agree wholeheartedly with Emerald. While it is important to think about how you will make a living after graduation, I am not sure focusing SOLELY on a career is the best use of the investment in time and money college requires. There are vocational schools where you can be done in a lot less time and be guaranteed of having a well-paying job in say auto mechanics or computer repair. It's not that there is anything wrong with having a career goal in college, but by the same token don't waste the wonderful priceless opportunity to also develop your mind and explore learning for learning's sake.</p>

<p>I see many kids fall into what I have come to call the "investment banker syndrome." They really have no idea what an investment banker does - aside from make money. They haven't considered if this is going to be a job that will make them happy. They simply seize on the job title because it is easier than admitting they really don't know what they are good at yet, or what they want to do with their lives. It's easier and less scary to say "I'm going to be an investment banker" (or a "doctor," or an "engineer," or...) than it is to say "I have no idea where life will take me but I'm going to explore my options."</p>

<p>There are so many kids that say they want to be "pre-med." In most cases, they haven't really even talked to a real doctor about what their life will be like. Some on this board have actually complained about having to take things like English, history, etc. I feel very sorry for them because they are focused only on the end, not the journey</p>

<p>I'm not bashing doctors or pre-meds here - many really have thought about why they want to enter that field --- but so many kids just seem to be aimlessly following what they think they SHOULD be rather than really figuring out what they want to do.</p>

<p>For this reason, I think it's important to take a broad range of courses and sample subjects that may lead you in unexpected directions. At the very least, even if you are "under employed" down the road, you'll have a good education under your belt. That is never wasted, in my opinion. There's nothing wrong with having a career in mind during college but take the time to explore and learn about other areas as well - you just never know which class is going to be that one class that comes in handy down the road, teaches you to think in a new way, or opens your mind to something that will become a lifelong interest.</p>

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<p>Cangel: I agree with alot of what you say!
RE: the OP...it is fine to focus on humanities/English/liberal arts; but make sure that during college or summers you try as hard as you can to add PRACTICAL experience to your resume. Work on the school newspaper, try for an internship in University Communications or Public relations if your interest leads you to think writing/reporting might be a job for you after school. Volunteer to tutor elem. age kids as a service activity & to decide if a career in education might be for you. Look for summer jobs in museums if you think art history might be your field.
The person who graduates with a degree & some relevant practical experience (whether paid or volunteer) is the one who will stand out during job interview time!</p>