I think it is wonderful that he wants to/is willing to go to the teacher at all! Many boys (probably mine at that age) wouldn’t. I wouldn’t pick the battle of having him talk to the teacher today vs. Monday. Support him on this, is my opinion.</p>
<p>Myself, I would not tie his leadership position to bringing up this grade. He is trying HARD! Why punish him for that? </p>
<p>I’ll leave suggestions about whether to change schools/programs to others, as I have no experience with this.</p>
<p>What I do have experience with is when a kid who hasn’t had to struggle academically first encounters that struggle.
Any my personal experience is a resounding yes to that question. Our son didn’t hit this type of wall until sophomore year in a very tough school in a very tough Engineering program. He called me one day to tell me he actually feared failing one class. He felt he was working so hard and just not getting anywhere. Other kids were having trouble with the course, too, but most of them had dropped it. He hadn’t. His father and I had one thing to say to him (in effect, these weren’t the exact words): “We’re on your team. We’re proud of you for not folding under pressure. Just pass the course. That’s all you need to do. Don’t worry about getting your usual A’s/B+.” I truly think that did wonders. In addition to the pressure they put on themselves, our kids worry about disappointing US. Removing that pressure, knowing they will not garner our disapproval is HUGE. From that point, our son ordered a second text online which he understood better than the assigned text, got a new study partner, visited prof ofc hours (even though had before and felt it hadn’t helped). He ended with a C+ in that course which we celebrated roundly. It is the grade of his of which I am most proud.</p>
<p>“Absolutely it’s a given I’ll be talking to the teacher, the question is when and with S or without him…”</p>
<p>I would think really soon since the year is almost over, no? I completely respect your position, but I think I’d rather fix the problem first and teach the life lesson after. But you seem to have a handle on things. Good luck and let us know how it turns out!</p>
<p>Instead of repeating the course, you might try having him take the material through distance learning over the summer. My S has taken a number of distance learning/online math courses, and though they weren’t the most interesting way to present the material, he learned the material very very well. A student cannot progress in the course until mastery of the concepts, through problem-solving, has been demonstrated.</p>
<p>owlice - I was just looking into that on my other open window(!) I’m not sure if he would hate the idea - but at least it’s a possibility to look into.
Zoosermom - soon, yes! The question is today or next week.</p>
<p>My 9th grade son’s math teacher is either as he says not a very good teacher, or just doesn’t have a teaching style that meshes with his learning style. We have bought some of The Art of Problem Solving math books which he has worked with on his own. They are extremely well done.</p>
<p>ojr,
I have a son who was in the same boat last year – pre-IB Alg II w/Analysis. Had a D going into the last test of the 3rd quarter. Like your S, great on the IQ tests, poor visual/spatial sequential skills. Always had As and Bs in math. I had a meeting at that point with the teacher and IB coordinator. </p>
<p>This is the killer class in pre-IB. Kids who were not well-served by their Alg I teachers really get hammered here – S found he was having to learn things he should have had in Alg I. This was compounded by much of the Alg II class was focused intensely on visual-spatial concepts. Teacher verified that a lot of kids with seemingly great Alg I preparation come into Alg II and don’t really have the fundamentals down as solidly as they need for this kind of a fast-paced class. She said S was not the only one struggling.</p>
<p>He fought through the rest of year and pulled off a B by the skin of his teeth, but he was going in to see the teacher regularly and I was making practice tests and checking HW religiously ever night to make sure he knew HOW to do it so that we could nip problems in the bud. The teacher and I kept in frequent touch by email.</p>
<p>Fast forward: He did pre-IB Math Studies this year. Slightly slower pace (two units less than pre-IB pre-calc); he’ll take the Math SL/AP Calc AB exams as a a junior and AP Stat senior year. Grades are MUCH better – consistent As and Bs, and more importantly, he has some confidence again. The other thing that happened is that because he spends less time this year worrying and struggling with math, he is doing better in all his other classes. </p>
<p>It was a hard lesson for him, as he was used to things coming easily (or if not, at least he got Bs out of it). He is finally starting to go to teachers on his own for help. A big step for this kiddo.</p>
<p>I think it is understandable if he wants to talk to his tutor first. He has already been embarrassed in front of this teacher once, so he probably would prefer to at least be able to approach them again on the basis of knowing what he did wrong and how to correct it, to show he is not completely hopeless.</p>
<p>You and your son can see the teacher on Monday, tell them you were concerned and have talked to his tutor about it. Then they will not see you/him as disinterested.</p>
<p>I’d love to have that outcome for my S
I have no idea how to do the material he is covering and neither does my H, so we are truly no help (hence the math tutor - I can at least pay the guy who does know what he’s doing) but we end up in nightly conversations where I tell him to look at his math, he says he doesn’t understand it, my H and I look at it and see Greek characters, and S moves on to other homework with the plan to talk to his tutor when he comes. This worked first semester, but not now. If nothing else, I’d love to end up with your outcome - that he’s going to teachers on his own for help.</p>
<p>My younger son has had math issues, but they are slightly different than your son’s. His WISC scores were all over the place, both his highest and lowest sub-test scores were in sequencing and the same with visual/spatial. His biggest problem boils down to the fact that he just doesn’t remember a lot of math facts/axioms/procedures, but if he has enough time he can reconstruct methods pretty well. He actually has great math sense. Very frustrating! We’ve been lucky that he’s been able for the most part to figure out on his own how to cope.</p>
<p>PS One of the things he has learned is going to teachers for extra help. He’s in 10th grade now.</p>
<p>If he is doing Advanced Algebra in 9th grade, then what is the math sequence for the highest level kids leading in to IB? At our school the higher level kids do Advanced-Algebra/Trig in 10the grade and the depending on how that goes they can move on to the higher math sequence. If he is doing that class in 9th grade, I am not sure where the IB sequence would go after Higher II…</p>
<p>Just because a kid has been good in math until that point, doesn’t mean they will be forever…or at least in 9th grade. The more synthetic aspects of the pre-IB curriculum are just a year or 2 too early for some kids in terms of their cognitive development. AT our school the AAT class splits the kids who are ‘hard workers’ from those who have the conceptual skills to do higher level maths already…but even a bright kid might not be there in 9th grade..</p>
<p>If he can get the grade erased if he repeats it, let him repeat it. Do not push ahead until he has it.</p>
<p>Sounds like a lot of overkill to me. If he’s in a math class that’s moving too quickly for him, then getting a tutor just puts a bandaid on the problem… the class is still moving too quickly, but now he gets to have two authority figures (teacher, tutor) explaining something he doesn’t get… plus two more authority figures (mom and dad) making him feel inadequate that after all these years of sailing he’s hit a wall.</p>
<p>If it were my kid (and it was at one point) I’d have him live through the year and then drop down to a slower paced math sequence. Unless he asks… I wouldn’t push the summer math thing. All things being equal, your son should be able to keep math in perspective along with everything else going on in his life, and if you add a summer class to a tutor to a less than positive experience this past year… I dunno, doesn’t smell right to me.</p>
<p>I had a “mathy kid” who we had to drop down a level in middle school. I think the school administration was horrified but we weren’t willing to let a kid who loved numbers and concepts struggle through an unhappy and unsatifsying year. Nor were we willing to get a tutor- putting a “remedial” cap on this felt too punitive… there were plenty of smart kids at his school in a slower paced math class, so why would we push to keep him somewhere that was making him miserable?? The teacher just explained things in a way that he literally couldn’t understand. So we moved him down. </p>
<p>A year later he rejoined his previous class and although he had missed some of the material, by Thanksgiving he was mostly caught up. The teacher observed that he had a very solid foundation, still loved numbers, seemed ok with not getting an A on every quiz but seemed to be pulling B+s with minimal effort, and then was able to raise his game by springtime.</p>
<p>At one point I recall telling his math teacher (the one who explained things in an incomprehensible way), “it’s ok with us if he doesn’t end up at MIT”. Ironically he did… but that’s besides the point. I wouldn’t keep flogging the advanced math level if it’s frustrating him.</p>
<p>ojr,
I don’t understand the math either – but I gave him problems from the textbbook that he hadn’t already done for HW (preferably the ones with answers in the back of the book!), or took problems the teacher had given on quizzes, etc. and changed them. My math kid also helped when S2 and I were at loggerheads.</p>
<p>We also made it clear to S2 that we knew he was giving it his best and that was more important to us than the grade. (We took him out for a celebratory dinner after the B. He earned that sucker.)</p>
<p>Some of this is just plain brain development. Even my future math major hit a wall when he was 13 and had to slow the pace a little (and it was Alg II/Trig). The following year, the teacher said, “You know, it was never about the math.” Yup. We knew back then he was heading in a direction where he’d be taking math long past AP Calc, and felt taking the extra time would make the long haul easier. It worked.</p>
<p>I’m not sure I can get folks on this board to believe it, but it’s not us parents “flogging the advanced math level” or pushing him to where he is. He has always sailed - literally until February - at which time he got the help of a senior student (his “tutor”) once per week. This boy is also a friend and a very good explainer. This moves was my son’s idea. Things improved until the last two tests, which got him low because he had studied and thought himself to be prepared, but then didn’t understand problem set-up both times. And they are worth a large percentage of his grade. My parental concern was whether he was using his class time well, asking his teacher questions, and reviewing his assignments as they were assigned, so he could talk with the teacher. He would rather talk with the tutor - a friend!
As to moving “back” - that’s the frustration I’ve been trying to explain - there doesn’t seem to be anywhere to go. If he stayed on the “top” track (which he has never even considered and wouldn’t want even if he were doing great) he’d still be one year ahead of the IB HL curriculum. Overkill is right unless you really love the subject! What we’re trying to set up is a way for him to have two years of SL - but that leaves him one year with no math class … Anitaw has that right.
I’m sure it will work out. My venting and discussing and “listening” here has helped me with the ‘reality check’ - he’ll do what he needs to do - he is a great kid and I don’t want to see him down on himself over one class! Plus he’s going to district tennis competition next week - fun with no math I am a firm believer in the whole child and the whole self - I’ll let ya’ll know what happens!</p>
<p>Math is weird. The first time I took Calculus I was 16 and felt like it was just beyond my grasp. I got an A in the class, but bombed the AP with a 2. I didn’t take math again for three years, so having forgotten everything I took Calculus again. It was amazingly easy the second time around. It had nothing to do with the teacher (I took it self-paced so the teacher was me and the handouts.) It was my brain. It just seemed to be ready, when it wasn’t ready before.</p>
<p>Something similar may be going on here. It may have nothing to do with an LD, he may just not be quite ready for this particular piece. Good luck to him.</p>
<p>I guess I don’t understand something. Why does this kiddo need to be in accelerated math? Many bright kids (mine included) were able to take AP courses in other subject areas, but not math. ALSO…as others have pointed out…you need a strong foundation for math. Sometimes there is an assumption in accelerated math that the students all “get it” and there isn’t enough coverage of the principals of the math. We were the ONLY parents at our school who “denied” our daughter the accelerated math track. DH felt she needed a strong math foundation and with good reinforcement of those basic foundations. </p>
<p>I would suggest letting this kid take a regular math sequence…beginning with a repeat of Algebra II…and not the IB class either. Just a regular Algebra II class with a teacher who understands that his or her students need to LEARN the math concepts.</p>
<p>If he’s having problems with problem set-up, look into whether the vocabulary in the tests is different than that of his text/homework.</p>
<p>My son had trouble recognizing what type of problem was in front of him if the instructions varied–for example, when he had been taught to “solve the simultaneous equations” and the test read “system of equations”. He would freak, rather than look more carefully at the actual problem.</p>
I am a firm believer in the whole child and the whole self - I’ll let ya’ll know what happens!</p>