<p>Okay...all you parents, coaches, students...I need your advice and help! I am struggling with what kind and how much help to give my D as she continues this journey that you all have been upon. She is a junior and is preparing to audition for summer programs, which I see as a way to test the waters. The problem is that we have been locking horns so much lately, which I know is common between parents and teens, moms and daughters. She has a great deal of experience thanks to years of training (with our support all the way) and knows a great deal. I too have learned a lot along the way. But my real education came from hours (days) of reading everything here on CC! I can't begin to tell you how much your experiences have helped educate me for this process, which I wanted to learn so that I could help her. But, right now, she knows everything and I know nothing. I understand that I am her personal secretary and soft spot upon which to land, fall, flop :) But I see that she is not doing all she can to prepare her monologue, for example. So do I let her make her own mistakes, find her own path and deal with whatever comes her way? Do I back off or push the issue, sharing what all of you have taught me? Is there a better way to deal with this? Please understand that I try very hard not to be a stage mom (I know that's what they all say!) I have always been there to be chauffeur, makeup mom, costume mom, whatever was needed, but have never been one to intervene for my daughter's sake. I try not to help too much! But when to back off and when to push at this important time in her life is tough for me. Moms...how did you handle this? Coaches...have you helped your students and parents deal with this issue? Students...what kind and how much help meant the most to you? It has been really rough these past few days and it breaks my heart! This is only the start for us! How will we ever make it through this next year? HELP?!</p>
<p>I am a junior like your D. and when I told my parents I wanted to major in musical theater they were a little skeptical. My mother espeiclly as it is such a brutal feild. The help that meant/means the most to me right now is her just supporting me and understanding this is what I love. Its also nice when she mabye finds something about a show or a class and tells me about it. That shows me she cares and I think even though it would not be her ideal career for me she has come to terms with it and is trying the best that she can.</p>
<p>I'm glad you are not being a stage mom! I say encourage her to work, but don't push. Because this is for summer programs and not college, it isn't as big of a deal and maybe it's her time to realize that it takes a lot of hard work to prepare. If she doesn't learn now, she may mess up when her future is on the line. Always be in her corner though, makes sure she knows you believe in her, no matter what. I know people say you have to be realistic, but the mom has that special exception where she can just be there for the kid. It means so much, trust me. Good luck!</p>
<p>MTHeaded....it's a balancing act, that's for sure. Personally, I see the role of a parent in the admissions process as a facilitator. The student drives this process. The parent can research something the child asks them to look up. The parent can do some secretarial tasks or book the college visits, etc. And the parent can be a guide...sit down with the teen, plan out a time line together, discuss what needs to happen next....the student makes their own decisions, the student does whatever that is and comes back and checks in and discusses what they want to do, etc. The decisions are up to the kid. The parent really ought not to do the stuff FOR the kid. Afterall, this is their life, their process, their goals. It's like a team effort but the parent is more the support part. I think the parent can be part of the organization and checking in and guiding to stay on the timeline of what was agreed upon. I sort of had little "meetings" with my kids and they appreciated the guidance and if they asked for advice on something, I gave it. I was aware of everything they were doing but they still were the ones doing it. We might map out a plan together and then discuss which things the child would do that week and what things she wanted me to take care of (things that would be appropriate for the adult....ie., order score reports to be sent). The child researched the programs and made notes and discussed their preferences. They knew I was reading lots about them and so they were willing to hear any information I researched. </p>
<p>Now, as far as things like audition prep like you are talking about. Well, I can certainly identify with that mom knows NOTHING. My MT kid reminded me of that notion many times. :D But you see, they SAY that but then when in a different frame of mind....such as when they INITIATE it and we don't GIVE the advice unasked for....they are always turning to me and asking what I think! So, for instance, I might suggest some songs and she doesn't want to hear it because what do I know, right? But then, we'd be making the 50 mile trek to voice lesson and she'd sing the songs she was condsidering and asking me which I thought was better. She'd "rehearse" her audition material as a mock run but didn't really want a lot of critique. If she asked for it, fine, but if she didn't want it, she let me know. Believe me, there are LOTS of times she ASKS for the advice....don't remind them when they say we know nothing that there are all these other times they actually ASK! My D was at an audition in NYC recently and she called me from the site and asked me which of two songs I thought she should do. Now, if I had called to tell her, she'd not wanna hear it, right? So, yeah, it is a balancing act with a teen. </p>
<p>In terms of the dilemma you mention that you don't think she has practiced her monologues enough for the audition....I didn't exactly have that issue here that much but I think this goes back to a time line....talk about the goal...in this case an audition for the summer program.....talk about when in the weeks leading up to it she thinks she might fit some prep in and the importance of fitting that in. If you think she is not doing much about it, you could always have a discussion about the goal, what prep is needed to get there if she really wants it and actually if it is really an issue, you could bring up that you are not into going to the expense of the trip, lessons, whatever, if she is not willing to fit in some time each week to prep. See what could be worked out and go from there. I think if a kid really really wants to do this, the motivation to do the work has to be internal. You can guide and facilitate but they still gotta drive this process. If you have to nudge a lot, I'd then be having a chat about if this is the goal she wants, etc. But more than that, it sounds like what you are describing it kinda typical teenage daughter stuff that can drive ya nuts sometimes but it goes with the territory. I would try not to nag too much but more like have meetings about what is next, when she thinks she might do it, and then check in at some point. Perhaps she really is preparing when you are not looking. My D sometimes said she liked to practice songs or monologues when nobody was in the house. She'd let me know when she was ready for a final run and she usually would do a little run through for me. It also is good to do it in front of someone. Overall, I think you know she really DOES want your advice but she doesn't want to ADMIT it, LOL. I think it works when they bring it up. When it is unsolicited advice, they don't like it. </p>
<p>Believe me, she needs you and wants your help. While this is not the same, but twice in the past week, including today, my D calls ME (in rural VT) from NYC looking for a theater, as she is walking in NYC, asking me to google the address so she can find it. Am I needed or what?? </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>PS...you asked how you'll ever make it through this coming year....trust me, you will....we are all here to tell the tale. We got through it. Our kids got through it. Nobody said it was an easy ride.</p>
<p>I agree with Susan. I learned so much from reading CC and all the wonderful information shared here, but I couldn't turn around and dump all this stuff on my daughter. I mean, some of it she already knew because she's learned it herself from classes, lessons, and experience. And for all that information, I've been fascinated by learning through this online course LOL the sort of stuff my daughter learns. But how did I know what she knew and what she didn't? I used to worry that I was learning things that she didn't know and I wanted to teach her what I was learning. So at first there were some things I shared with her and she listened. I saw that I could only do so much of that or I would overwhelm her with information and it would put me in the driver's seat of HER life. But I have tried to keep my info at hand for her when she asks my advice (which she does more when I do NOT offer advice to her) and also we set it up where she knew I might have info she needed and she would ask me questions, knowing I might have the answer or could ask it on CC (which I have done for her). As far as learning monologues on time and that sort of thing, that's her responsibility. I think pushing a child to do something that is so germane to what they want to do does risk making a stage mother out of a mom. My own daughter tends to leave things more to the last minute at times than is my comfort level. She's not a procrastinator, but I am more the plan-it-out-so-I-don't-get-nervous type. She likes to think of herself as "spontaneous." This is sort of a long roundabout response, but the short answer is that in the past couple of years we worked it out that I'm her research assistant, as well as a volunteer for her activities, whereas when she was younger I was chauffeur, costume mistress, hair stylist, etc. Another thing I do is to remind her of things that are more "administrative," such as turning an application in by a certain date or sitting down together once a week to update both our date books.</p>
<p>Defying Gravity...Thank you for reminding me that the most important gift we give our kids is the unconditional love and support they need in the pursuit of their dreams and passions! Aren't you lucky you found your love of MT? Patience with your mom...she will continue to come around to support you more and more as she sees how committed you are to your dream!
CKP...thanks for reminding me to keep perspective! It is only for a summer experience. If she doesn't get in, we will save a lot of money! As I told someone else, perhaps we'll use our savings to go on a cruise!
Susan...oh my gosh! You constantly amaze me with your thoughtful generous responses! I love your suggestion of having meetings with each other to make plans, but then letting D do what's necessary. It also helps to be reminded to focus on all the times she does ask for my advice. It does happen frequently...but the times she doesn't want it sometimes hurts a little more. I try to be such a positive person...I am the eternal optimist. So I will concentrate more on the times she lets me know she needs me. We are fortunate in that there is no doubt that D wants this more than anything. She has been pursuing this since she started taking theater classes 10 years ago. She is a true MT geek...she amazes us with what she knows about theater. She is one of those people who can't see her future without MT in it! We saw this path coming a long time ago.
This is the best group therapy possible! Thank you all!</p>
<p>Oops MTMommy! I missed your advice when I was posting to everyone else. Sounds like our d's are similar...mine also likes to think of herself as spontaneous...but around here we all know she is a procrastinator! But she does pull through under pressure. I really like your idea of having her ask me to find answers here on CC when she needs them. All of this info here can be intimidating and overwhelming! Thanks so much!</p>
<p>MTHeaded - I feel for you, and my friends above have given you great advice! It is truly a balancing act. I have had no involvement in preparing audition material unless I was asked to read several monologues and give my opinion. My son did monologues on his own after reading what seemed like a million plays. He asked many adult actor friends for monologue ideas. He did not settle on a monologue until a very few days before his first fall audition (and yes - I was freaking, but I tried to stay out of it!). Guess what - he got into that first MT program with last minute monologue prep! In fact, he got into all of his first 4 auditions, and without my help on material - praise God! His voice teacher helps with songs, so I never even hear him working on songs. Sometimes on these matters, it is best to bite your tongue and let them do it on their own.</p>
<p>My son at first did not want to hear about CC and thought is was the craziest thing he had ever heard of. He still doesn't like for me to share personal information about him publicly. However, he came to appreciate my CC information and contacts as we went through this process, more than you'll ever believe. We have been so fortunate to get to meet many of my CC connections and their auditioning students. He is continually impressed with the CC people and thinks they are the most talented and best prepared of anyone. We now have several dear friends through this process.</p>
<p>I have been the calendar coordinator and travel agent and chaperone for the trips. That is truly it, but it takes much preparation and planning to pull off this busy senior year! The calendar involves so much more than audition trips. It involves knowing the deadlines for applications and for scholarship applications. What stressed me more than anything was the essay writing. He did all the essays and applications himself and for the most part used others besides me to proof the essays. Sometimes he was down to the wire getting them done, and this stressed me. I nagged about essays more than about audition material. In the end, we met all the deadlines. It seems like he wrote a million essays! With some colleges, you have to meet a certain deadline in order to get the audition date you want. I knew the calendar was tight and needed for our first choice date to work out in every situation, which it always did. We were so thankful when all the paperwork was behind him!</p>
<p>I received the best compliment from my son this week when he gave a personal speech to his school about his senior year experience of auditioning (a speaking opportunity each senior has during the year), here was one of the last sentences of the talk:</p>
<p>"And thank you, mom and dad, especially you mom for trudging through the thick and the thin with me."</p>
<p>All you moms out there should know that sometimes it's dad that ends up as the "navigator" for the MT ride! When our D first expressed a serious desire to pursue the MT track, our family defaulted to past experience--since I am the one that worked with the professional staff at our synagogue to train both of my daughters (my MT hopeful is our younger daughter) for their Bat Mitzvahs (and I must admit to pushing them to do as much as they would be allowed to do which was much more than most of their classmates--such is the burden of having a father who "moonlights" as a cantorial soloist for the High Holidays) it was kind of a no-brainer that I would be in the first chair for this voyage...</p>
<p>I am sure all of us currently waiting for decisions would agree that this has not been an easy year. Each student has different talents, personalities and external factors that ultimately determine the relationship between that student and his or her parents...We made the decision early on that it would be impossible for our D to handle her academic workload (filled with AP courses as she attends a "magnet school" for academically gifted kids), community theatre work, and the various classes she would be taking in preparation for her auditions unless I took a fairly active and involved role as her "personal secretary"--she had the standard choices for MT programs but it was through my discovery of the CC site that programs such as Elon, Otterbein, UCF and PSU came into play. My "job description" included doing all of the "drudge work" on the applications--her responsibility in regards to those applications was to complete anything that required independent thought (resume's, essays, short answers, etc...and of course UM's required list of songs performed) in a timely fashion. Being a true seventeen year old, her idea of a "timely fashion" quite often was different than my idea...but we somehow managed to get 12 applications and numerous supplemental applications (including several for honors programs) completed on time. This was no small accomplishment as this D dislikes writing essays as much as her older D enjoys writing them. </p>
<p>Since I am the "travel agent" in the family, I have put together all of our MT related trips, starting with our six school visit last March...And as you all know, scheduling all of the auditions is not easy! The advice I got from CC about separate files, the large calendar to keep important dates on, etc. has been invaluable. We were able to schedule the auditions at 11 of the 12 schools...which was not a bad percentage.</p>
<p>Here's the most important lesson I have learned--and I type this still having no idea whether my D will get into any of these MT programs and how she really stacks up against all of the other hopefuls in terms of talent and desire:</p>
<p>No matter how you approach this journey, and no matter how active or inactive a role you play, the bottom line is that (as several of our posters have so eloquently expressed) it's really up to your S or D--you can nag, encourage, schedule, plan, research, etc...in the end, the student decides how much he or she really wants to invest in the process--not just in the quantity but the quality of the time spent in preparation and practice for the auditions and the product they present to the schools through their applications and essays. As Soozie says, it's not our career and future that's on the line here--while it would be nice if our kids could enter this process with our "real life" experiences under their belts, that's not the way most seventeen year olds deal with things--they tend to selectively "tune us out" for any number of reasons. The results of that "tuning out" (whether good or bad) constitutes part of their learning experience.</p>
<p>I certainly don't regret having taken on this second job for the past year...regardless of where my D ends up (she has academic acceptances to a number of schools so she'll land on her feet if no "fat envelopes" come her way) we will certainly look back on this voyage as a rather unique father-daughter experience.</p>
<p>scogor</p>
<p>The line is so fine.....how do we decide what to do? My D also auditioned for a summer program this year. I am trying to fathom the future for next year. She is somewhere in between a prepper and a procrastinator. Her song choices were done in advance(although they changed at the last minute) and her monologue was the challenge. Turns out she decided to do one I thought she should anyway....and SHE GOT IN! </p>
<p>CC can be such a lifesaver - she and I both are avid readers - and we do compare notes often. This is her time and her choice and her life - and I just have to keep reminding me of that! That is so hard to do but I think if nothing else, we must be the keeper of hope and the fanner of the flames. They have the passion , the talent and the skills we have facilitated. In this, one of the hardest areas of all to conquer, being a coach can be the toughest job of all. Just love them - that's all I can do somedays.</p>
<p>Scogor again...Not to worry, my wife was not absent in this process. Apart from having to occasionally mediate "discussions" between our D and me (since seventeen year old daughters and their fathers are every so often not on the same wavelength) and serving as another "nagging/supporting" voice, she accompanied us on all of our trips and --with the exception of our very special father/daughter weekend at UM--there is nothing like an alum having the opportunity to give his daughter a tour of his alma mater--and of course my wife was in charge of helping to choose the audition dress, etc. However, both my D and I figured (correctly) that everyone's interests would be better served if we let my wife shop, sleep in, or otherwise occupy herself during the actual auditions at the Unifieds and several of the other auditions. Again, each situation is different but this seemed to work well for all three of us.</p>
<p>Scogor--I laughed about your wife shopping or sleeping in at auditions. I get nervous while my d auditions, but my h is worse. He spent the day working out in the gym at the unifieds, so that was good to give him something to do rather than sitting there waiting.</p>
<p>And, yes, Ericsmom, I forgot "travel agent." I definitely did that this year, too, though not as much as you did LOL.</p>
<p>My S made me crazy during this process. As Scogor said, his time table and mine vary quite a bit. I had him fill out all of his aps but had him run essays and such by me before finalizing, of course I had to be there at that time to pay! He always wants me to listen to the songs and monlogues he's working on, as long as I am positive, the tiniest bit of concern on my part and he walks off. I would try to talk to him about the things I read on this site and he would just walk away or say "mom, you're just making me more nervous". So I started saying things like " you know, most kids don't wear jeans to their auditions" or "Having back-up songs is recomended". Then later he'd come back and ask me about it. Eventually I got most of the necessary info across to him. Now after he's been on a few auditions, he is very glad that I found this site, and wil stop by the computer and ask what I've found out lately. So I say casually drop a tidbit of info, leave it alone, and wait for them to ask for more.</p>
<p>Good Morning! How nice to wake up and be able to continue my counseling/therapy session! You have no idea how much better I feel already thanks to all of you!
Ericsmom...I find comfort in the fact that your son put off preparing his monologue and was then so successful! So often here on CC I have read how these kids have researched, read, memorized, rehearsed and shared their monologues with coaches, teachers, directors etc. I know that there are several "ways to skin a cat" as my dad used to say! (What a horrible expression, now that I think about it!) We will also go back to the idea of using the calendar/planner that I bought her as a holiday gift to help give her direction.
scogor...I owe all of the dads on here a huge apology! It was very sexist of me to aim this towards the moms!!! I have so enjoyed reading the loving posts of the dads who take on this role! If your children don't know it now, they will some day truly appreciate how fortunate they were to have so much help and love to get them through this. My new mantra is becoming "This is her process, her path, her life!" It is the life that we have worked so hard to prepare her for every day through all of life's little lessons. It is just hard to believe that that adult life path is so near. As a friend of mine once told me, "When my child went to college, I couldn't help thinking 'Wait! I'm not done yet! I have more I need to teach you!' " But then again we all know that our job is never done!</p>
<p>Mikksmom...I have a feeling that we will be going through this together and sharing a great deal! I look forward to it! Did your D get into CMU's summer program? I think we "talked" before about UMich and that you were hoping for CMU as a first choice? If so, congratulations!
SRW...I love your idea of just dropping hints and bits of info that you have learned here. There is so much here to learn and it is a lot to take in. My D has told me that I freak her out at times when I start telling her so much of what I have learned!</p>
<p>I forgot to mention that dads certainly lose as much sleep over this process as moms (especially when those audition songs keep running through our heads)! But at least I can log on to this site and share insights with fellow insomniacs!</p>
<p>What a great discussion to wake up to. Have you all been living in my house???? My d would be the one who wants info (but ONLY if she asks for it); procrastinates big time on paperwork (so I told her she HAD to complete all of her college apps before Sept as school starts very early here and if she waited too long her teachers would get too bogged down with writing recs); seems to prefer "spontaneous" PREPARATION of monologues and songs (she had them all picked out early in the process and has a vocal coach so song prep was ongoing, but monologues.....) So I won't reapeat what has been said before, but wholeheartedly agree!</p>
<p>It's a fine line to walk with a teenager doing this. How much help is too much? In our case, she filed all the apps herself (both online and PDF) according to a timeline I gave her. She gathered all the supporting stuff, recs, resumes, essays (which were pretty easy because so many of them were revisions on a similar theme) etc and gave to me to check for missing items. I mailed each package off to the school; acted as audition coordinator, travel agent and chauffer. And audition outfit fashion coordinator (which was the most fun because what 17 year old girl doesn't like to shop on Mom's dime???).</p>
<p>So however all this works out, what an experience this year has been. The biggest benefit (for me) have been the really fun mother/daughter trips we've gotten to take and all the great talks we've been able to have while trapped in a car together for 5 or 6 hours. And she's had one great trip with her dad too! We have two more trips for scholarship comps, so two more chances for me to "impart everything I want her to know" (ha ha) before I have to let her go in September.</p>
<p>But remember, even when they are whining about our nagging, seem to be procrastinating or appear really irritated with us, they are probably grateful. My d has told me (once or twice, not too often, LOL) that she definitely couldn't have done this without my help and encouragment; that it would have been too hard to do on her own while going to school, doing shows and working p/t. </p>
<p>I think we parents are meant to be the "guides", to gently nudge them back onto the path and remind them every now and then of where they wanted this journey to take them.</p>
<p>MTHead et al.-
what is so interesting from this for me is how differently different kids process information and how as parents we have to keep this are part of the balance. My D is also supposed to be preparing for a summer program audition, next weekend, and I am not sure she has even selected a monologue let alone learned it! THis is not for a high powered program -local only- but she has been accepted the last 2 years and gone elsewhere, so I keep telling her she is going to have to make them really want her for them to say yes again.
About reading the boards and sharing information with her from here, D thinks I am insane doing this. She has no interest in reading this site, and a dance site, because it is clearly not how she processes information, but it IS how I process. I am becoming more subtle in how I chose to drop bits of what I have learned into the conversation at appropriate times so they can be "received."
And MThead about the head butting- my D and I are in constant conflict over this. She says my demanding (her word) to hear her song or monologue makes her feel more presssured. My clain is if I putting out the bucks and driving, I want to know there is at least a realistic amount of preparation. THen I get a monolgue done in complete monotone and songs sung by a statue with no facial expression or completely overacted but from this at least I know they are memorized sufficiently that she can play around with them. It drives me insane because it is an attitude that just screams a lack of consideration for what has been sacrificed.</p>
<p>So when you find the solution, please, please let me know.</p>
<p>I don't know if this helps but I've tried to act as a resource for songs and monologues (I have access to a library that my D does not) once they are chosen, but I would never ask to hear songs or monologues...unless invited. That seems like artistic intrusion. My approach has been to leave the artistic "work" up to my D and her teacher. </p>
<p>I hear the point about "well if I'm putting out the money for these trips", etc. BUT the way I looked at it (and the way it worked out) was that even if the audition was a wash, for whatever reason, what I gained was precious time with my D on a trip, when one-on-one time seems scarce and hard to come by. So even if the audition was a waste of time from the college search perspective, it never was a personal waste of time - so I felt it was time well spent. </p>
<p>[Also, we never went more than 500 miles from home, so the dollar investment was minimal. We always drove.]</p>
<p>Travel agent, file clerk, calendar co-ordinator - all fine roles for an MT parent :) A phrase someone used on CC a while back, and which really struck me - "a soft place to land" - great role for ANY supportive parent.</p>
<p>Beyond that - this pursuit has to be your child's PASSION, and not yours. And, the career path is tenuous, but a large portion has to be self-driven. If there is not a large element of that in the college search process, maybe the career choice isn't great - not because of talent, but due to personality - are you self-motivated? Can you create opportunities for yourself? Do you have a ton of perseverence? Will you be able to handle massive amounts of rejection? Do you love the process of auditioning? Are you always seeking out new material, exposing yourself to new works?</p>
<p>If the parent is having to drive any portion of that - what happens once the kid goes to college? What happens when the kid's out of school, and trying to make a living at this? Maybe the college search process is a good way to learn some of these lessons.</p>