Money Matters - Which college grads get the big bucks?

Student Lounge International Students
1

<p>** An Intoduction **
Everyday cliches like "Do what you love" are thrown around much too often. I, for one, would love nothing more than to be a cook. Fact remains, practicality is reality's sharpest weapon, and unless you abide by it, you're gonna get hurt. In any case, money is what drives the 21st century soul, right? Or at least the 21st century teen? Dispute as much as you will, money matters. Pardon the chauvinistic touch, but for men more-so than women. The 21st century dream is the 'good life'. The 22nd story duplex overlooking Manhattan with an overhanging garden, a bar, and a flatscreen that came in a box big enough to fit a month of laundry. Classy. An Armani suit and a wine glass more expensive than a television. Not your television, of course. You get the point. Enough chitter-chatter. Let's get to the point.</p>

<p>** The Research **
Let's not kid ourselves. Why do we want to go to a Harvard, Yale or a Princeton? Saying that the education is better is merely an excuse. We're in it for the green paper. The big bucks. One would expect Harvard, being the supposed "best" college in the world, to have the biggest returns (neglecting the fact that most of their dropouts can probably buy the place). Does it?</p>

<p>Source:
Top</a> US Colleges - Graduate Salary Statistics</p>

<p>Now, the site above states the median starting salary and mid-career salary for all colleges in the US. Assuming that the mid-career salary is reached in 10 years from the starting salary in a linear graph, the total amount earned in ten years boils down to:
Total Earnings in Ten Years=
(Starting Salary * 10) + (Mid-Career salary - Starting Salary) *5
I think that would give a single value with which we could compare our colleges.</p>

<p> ** The Ivy League **
1. ** Princeton University ** - $909,500 - 4
2. ** Harvard University ** - $891,500 - 6
3. ** Dartmouth College** - $885,500 - 7
4. ** University of Pennsylvania ** - $853,000 -12
5. ** Cornell University ** - $817,500 -20
6. ** Yale University ** - $813,000 - 23
7. ** Brown University ** - $792,000 - 29
8. ** Columbia University ** - $770,000 - 42</p>

<p><univerisity name=""> <total earnings="" in="" ten="" years=""> <overall salary="" rank="">
* Comments: **
We always knew Ivies would be high earners, and I guess to an extent, we were right. But only to an extent. Yale and Columbia had some surprises in store. And Princeton ousted Harvard. Woah.</overall></total></univerisity></p>

<p> ** The Engineering Colleges **
1. ** Harvey Mudd College ** - $974,500 - 1 - DNO (2)
2. ** California Institute of Technology ** - $949,500 - 2 - DO (4)
3. ** Massachusetts Institute of Technology ** - $936,500 - 3 - DO (1)
4. ** Stanford University ** - $896,000 - 5 - DO (2)
5. ** Bucknell University ** - $854,000 - 11 - DNO (9)
6. ** Carnegie Mellon University ** - $852,000 - 13 - DO (8)
7. ** Cornell University ** - $817,500 -20 - DO (8)
8. ** Georgia Institute of Technology ** - $811,500 - 24 - DO (4)
9. ** University of California -Berkeley ** - $810,500 -25 - DO (3)
10. ** Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology ** - $783,500 - 34 -DNO (1)
11. ** California Polytechnic State -San Luis Obispo ** - $771,000 - 40 - DNO (5)
12. ** Villanova University ** - $764,000 - 46 - DNO (9)
13. ** Cooper Union ** - $756,500 - 49 - DNO (3)
14. ** University of Illinois -Urbana-Champaign ** - $740,000 - 58 - DO (6)
15. ** University of Michigan -Ann Arbor ** - $704,000 - 92 - DO (7)
16. ** Purdue University -West Lafayette ** - $693,500- 106 - DO (8)</p>

<p>** Comments: **
Small college domination here, with HMC actually topping the list by quite some distance. Caltech's a close second. MIT not being 1st on any list is quite a surprise. Bucknell is a major shocker; they made it big here. I'd say Berkeley's a good $50k short of what they were looking for. CalPoly is quite a shocker too, and I don't think anyone expected Cooper Union to be this low. UMich underperformed, and I guess Purdue's true colors showed.</p>

<p>*<univerisity name=""> <total earnings="" in="" ten="" years=""> <overall salary="" rank=""> <usnews ranking="" category=""> <usnews rank="">
The Top 10 Undergraduate Engineering Programs from USNews (where both Doctorate is and isn't offered) :
Best</a> Undergraduate Engineering Programs - Best Colleges - Education - US News
Best</a> Undergraduate Engineering Programs - Best Colleges - Education - US News
DO - doctorate offered
DNO - doctorate not offered
No Data for:
United States Military Academy
United States Air Force Academy
United States Naval Academy
Franklin W. Olin College of Engineering</usnews></usnews></overall></total></univerisity></p>

<p> ** The Business Programs **
1. ** Massachusetts Institute of Technology ** - $936,500 - 3 - BUS (2)
2. ** University of Pennsylvania ** - $853,000 -12 - BUS (1)
3. ** Carnegie Mellon University ** - $852,000 - 13 - BUS (7)
4. ** Cornell University ** - $817,500 -20 - BUS (10)
5. ** University of California -Berkeley ** - $810,500 -25 - BUS (3)
6. ** University of Southern California ** - $748,500 - 53 - BUS (10)
7. ** University of Virginia ** - $722,000 -72 - BUS (5)
8. ** University of Michigan -Ann Arbor ** - $704,000 - 92 - BUS (4)
9. ** New York University ** - $685,000 -120 - BUS (5)
10. ** University of Texas -Austin ** - $683,000 -122 - BUS (7)
11. ** Indiana University - Bloomington ** - $614,000 - 239 - BUS (10)</p>

<p>** Comments: **
Because UPenn was considered as a whole and not just Wharton, it fell a good $200k short of where it should've been. Everything else is more or less in order. I guess you could say CMU is probably a little higher than expected. USC as well. I thought NYU was a little better to be honest. I don't know why Indiana University is even on this list. No offence.</p>

<p>*<univerisity name=""> <total earnings="" in="" ten="" years=""> <overall salary="" rank=""> <usnews ranking="" category=""> <usnews rank="">
The Top 10 Undergraduate Business Programs from USNews
Best</a> Undergraduate Business Programs - Best Colleges - Education - US News
BUS - Business</usnews></usnews></overall></total></univerisity></p>

<p> ** The Top 25 National Universities **
1. ** California Institute of Technology ** - $949,500 - 2 - NU (7)
2. ** Massachusetts Institute of Technology ** - $936,500 - 3 - NU (7)
3. ** Princeton University ** - $909,500 - 4 - NU (2)
4. ** Stanford University ** - $896,000 - 5 - NU (5)
5. ** Harvard University ** - $891,500 - 6 - NU (1)
6. ** Dartmouth College** - $885,500 - 7 - NU (9)
7. ** Duke University ** - $861,500 - 10 - NU (9)
8. ** University of Pennsylvania ** - $853,000 -12 - NU (5)
9. ** Carnegie Mellon University ** - $852,000 - 13 - NU (23)
10. ** University of Notre Dame ** - $830,500 - 17 - NU (19)
11. ** Cornell University ** - $817,500 -20 - NU (15)
12. ** Yale University ** - $813,000 - 23 - NU (3)
13. ** University of California -Berkeley ** - $810,500 -25 - NU (22)
14. ** Brown University ** - $792,000 - 29 - NU(15)
15. ** Vanderbilt University ** - $780,000 - 36 -NU (17)
16. ** Columbia University ** - $770,000 - 42 -NU(4)
17. ** Rice University ** - $768,000 - 44 - NU (17)
18. ** Georgetown University ** - $782,500- 45 - NU (21)
19. ** University Of Chicago ** - $750,000 - 51 - NU (9)
20. ** University of Southern California ** - $748,500 - 53 - NU (23)
21. ** Johns Hopkins University ** - $740,000 - 59 - NU (13)
22. ** Washington University - St. Louis ** - $717,500 - 78 - NU (13)
23. ** University of California - Los Angeles ** - $711,500 - 86 - NU (25)
24. ** Northwestern University ** - $704,500 - 91 - NU (12)
25. ** Emory University ** - $687,500 - 114 - NU (20)</p>

<p>** Comments: **
The top 9 on this list were more or less expected. Notre Dame surprised me a lot at number 10. I though Vandy was a tad higher than it's reputation deems it to be. USC was overrated as well. I honestly expected JHU to be in the top 15 at least, Wustl too. Emory was surprisingly low. Same goes for Northwestern. In terms of money, I don't think anything below the 700 mark deserves a place in the top 25.</p>

<p>*<univerisity name=""> <total earnings="" in="" ten="" years=""> <overall salary="" rank=""> <usnews ranking="" category=""> <usnews rank="">
The Top 25 National Universities from USNews
National</a> Universities Rankings - Best College - Education - US News
NU - National Universities</usnews></usnews></overall></total></univerisity></p>

<p> ** The Surprise High-Earners **
1. ** Harvey Mudd College ** - $974,500 - 1
2. ** Colorado School of Mines ** - $873,000 - 8
3. ** Polytechnic Institute of New York University ** - $865,500 - 9
4. ** Bucknell University ** - $854,000 - 11
5. ** Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute ** - $848,000 - 14
6. ** Colgate University ** - $838,500 - 15
7. ** Lehigh University ** - $837,000 - 16
8. ** Babson College ** - $827,500 - 18
9. ** Worcester Polytechnic Institute ** - $824,500 - 19
10. ** University of The Sciences - Philadelphia ** - $813,500 - 21
11. ** Claremont McKenna College ** - $813,500 - 22
12. ** Lafayette College ** - $809,000 - 26
13. ** Manhattan College ** - $801,500 - 27
14. ** Stevens Institute of Technology ** - $793,500 - 28
15. ** Santa Clara University ** - $792,000 - 31
16. ** Washington and Lee University ** - $786,500 - 32
17. ** Clarkson University ** - $784,000 - 32
18. ** New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology ** - $774,000 - 38
19. ** New Jersey Institute of Technology ** - $771,000 - 39
20. ** California Polytechnic State - San Luis Obispo ** - $771,000 - 40</p>

<p>** Comments: **
Wow. Loads to say here. Let's start with number one. We all knew HMC was good, but THAT good? Amazing. Colorado and New Mexico proved mining has a lot of money in store. I've never even heard of the Polytechnic Institute of NYU. Colgate ousted the other LACs by a mile. William, Swarthmore and Middlebury didn't even compare. I've never heard of the University of Sciences at Philly. In fact, I've never heard of most of the colleges in the bottom half of this list. The title speaks for itself. Surprises.</p>

<p> ** Which stream has the most Benjamins? **
1. ** Petroleum Engineering ** - $1,250,000
2. ** Chemical Engineering ** - $864,000
3. ** Nuclear Engineering ** - $839,500
4. ** Aerospace Engineering ** - $837,000
5. ** Electrical Engineering ** - $824,000
6. ** Computer Engineering ** - $803,500
7. ** Applied Mathematics ** - $787,000
8. ** Biomedical Engineering ** - $779,000
9. ** Industrial Engineering ** - $779,000
10. ** Mechanical Engineering ** - $789,500
11. ** Computer Science ** - $769,500
12. ** Materials Science & Engineering ** - $765,000
13. ** Physics ** - $751,500
14. ** Software Engineering ** - $740,000
15. ** Building Construction ** - $737,000
*Most Earning Streams
<stream name=""> <total earnings="" in="" ten="" years="">
Best</a> Undergrad College Degrees By Salary</total></stream></p>

<p>** Comments: **
Quite a stunner. The numbers speak for themselves. Wow. Petroleum engineering is in a league of it's own, at least 7 leagues beyond the rest. That apart, engineering completely dominates. I guess brains is where the money is. The few non-engineering streams are Computer Science, Physics and Applied Math. So much for NON-engineering streams.</p>

<p> ** Well, if you could do without the Franklins.. **
1. ** Child and Family Studies ** - $339,500
2. ** Elementary Education ** - $380,000
3. ** Social Work ** - $383,500
4. ** Athletic Training** - $392,500
5. ** Horticulture ** - $429,000
6. ** Theology ** - $430,000
7. ** Paralegal Studies ** - $432,000
8. ** Culinary Arts ** - $432,500
9. ** Recreation & Leisure Studies ** - $432,500
10. ** Art ** - $441,500
11. ** Religious Studies ** - $445,500
12. ** Special Education ** - $449,000
13. ** Education ** - $450,000
14. ** Interior Design ** - $455,000
15. ** Interdisciplinary Studies ** - $456,500</p>

<p>*Least Earning Streams
<stream name=""> <total earnings="" in="" ten="" years="">
Best</a> Undergrad College Degrees By Salary</total></stream></p>

<p>** Comments: **
This wasn't meant to be a joke. It just proves that, well, social work is a brave profession with little fruits. Being a teacher or a cook isn't gonna make you a billionaire. Religion isn't prospering now either. Sorry, pope. </p>

<p>** The Verdict: **
1. If you're the shallowest of the lot (and trust me, it's not a bad thing), go to Harvey Mudd and study petroleum engineering. Nine out of ten, you'll end up as a millionaire with a stunner of a mansion in Dubai.
2. If you're Indian (yes, the stereotype), you're in luck. I guess our formula was right. Science+Math+top 10 University= Great success (Borat style!).
3. The most conclusive verdict is that the biggest money is in engineering. With all the very high earning engineering universities and the high ranked engineering streams, it's all too obvious.
4. If you have a passion for an uncommon stream, I'm happy for you, but understand what you are potentially getting yourself into.
5. It's sad, but the LACs may be where all the aid is, but <em>tsk</em> not the cash. At least, in comparison to the Technological Institutes.</p>

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<p>Funky,
Here are some questions about your post:</p>

<p>1) Do the numbers account for regional differences? There is a strong correlation between cost of living and starting salary and it could be as high as 20%. Cost of living in midwestern and southern states is significantly lower compared to either west coast or northeast.</p>

<p>2) Does the survey used in this study include people who went to graduate school before entering the work force?</p>

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<p>Well Tippu, to answer your questions:

  1. No, this does not account for living costs, although the requisite data IS available and with enough time, a revised estimate can be arrived at. This merely finds the gross amount earned in 10 years, with the assumptions as stated above.</p>

<ol>
<li>I am not entirely sure. On the original site, it says college graduates. Wikipedia defines a college graduate to be anybody holding a ‘bachelors degree or higher’. However, I personally find that quite improbable in this context as I don’t think a college would report the starting salary of their undergraduates and postgraduates together. I will get back to you on this if I find something concrete.</li>
</ol>

4

<p>

Wait, what? Seriously? No comments.

Hasn’t that always been the dream of the people? A good life. It all comes down to what one considers to be a good life. True for some people it might be the life you’re describing, one in which you have a lot of money, but isn’t it rather presumptuous on your part to imply that that’s what a good life should be for all the people and then go as far as to insinuate that money alone is what should matter?</p>

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<p>funky: Go see La Dolce Vita. </p>

<p>Steve Jobs went to Reed and not HMC. Some of your assumptions are severely flawed. While I can see the point you’re trying to make, try not to make such bold assertions (such as the one ccprofile has pointed). </p>

<p>I hope others will find this thread more instructive than I have. Might be a good resource for some. </p>

<p>( I’m happy you’re researching so much. 10 years later, you’ll buy me ice-cream with your Cornell money and I’ll lecture you on how little money matters in life. :p)</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>There’s little point commenting, since FunkySATMonkey generally posts all sorts of inflexible and sweeping statements (I had written the same thing in a previous thread). And it’s useless arguing or discussing with this kind of mindset or thought; I wouldn’t take much notice of such statements if I were you. </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>There’s also lots of amusing statements for everyone. Consider:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>If such crass statements actually dominated the ideas of the students accepted at Cornell this year, then the people who were rejected/deferred are lucky.</p>

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<p>@ccprofile
I think it’s rather naive to say that money doesn’t matter. It’s primarily why we’re all going to college. It accounts for the word ‘business’. It practically gave you concrete thing you could name. Most importantly, money indirectly buys happiness. And when money’s not a problem, nothing really is. I’m not saying money is the only thing that matters, but it IS of primary importance. If you were insanely smart but your passion was kindergarten teaching, it just doesn’t work.</p>

<p>However, opinions may defer. I was regretting retorts from the very beginning. </p>

<p>@debarghya:
Steve Jobs is an exception. There are always exceptions.
This is a generalized statistic.
And frankly, I don’t think I’ve said anything that far fetched. Consider this:

  1. For all those Indians who cannot even dream of applying to the US. Why? Money. Money matters.
  2. I drive by the Merc showroom every day to school. I don’t have a Merc. Money matters.</p>
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<p>^You do have a tendency to post statements which do/can flare into debates.</p>

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<p>… Funky, are the salaries you quotes annual? …
because what i generally see on payscale etc range between 50,000 - 120,000 per annum…
PS - Congrats on Cornell!</p>

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<p>Money, indeed matters. Nobody’s going to dispute that. </p>

<p>You can’t say: </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>and stuff like that and get away with it. These statements can only be debated upon. Stick to objective facts as long as you can and be more modest with your opinions. There is a high probability that others won’t agree, which is okay, but there is also a high probability that others will get offended. I don’t think that would be good. IMO, what you’re essentially trying to say is interesting. The way you’re saying it isn’t “right”.</p>

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<p>I completely agree with FunkySATMonkey (cool name by the way). If it weren’t for my Parents’ savings, my siblings and I wouldn’t be able to afford University. </p>

<p>Now to the topic of practicality. In my opinion being practical is essential to success but you don’t have to completely ignore your interests in pursuit of practicality. Do what you like, but just be wary of a major or a career path that sounds too risky.</p>

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<p>btw, Funky * is * pretty cool. He probably started this thread to ignite a debate. ;)</p>

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<p>@PrincetonDreams:
You stole the words right out of my mouth. Exactly what I meant. The objective is to find a balance between practicality and personal interest.</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>He’s got to be. Could a lame person pull off a post like that, backing invalid data and all? ;)</p>

<p>In any case, he does have a point. And it’s a point that I wholeheartedly agree with.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>True. Unfortunately all of us can’t cook for a living and drive a Merc at the same time. Life has its trade-offs. Plan well and practically. Good luck at Cornell! :)</p>

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<p>You’re quite true in saying money matters; I won’t even argue that. Up to what extent money matters to an individual is an entirely different question, though; for some it may be everything, to others it might be for nothing more than to just meet their basic needs. Why can’t you consider the possibility of someone who doesn’t really wish for all that wealth? As long as a person has everything he wants/needs or that he deems important to live a good life, he will be happy(this may or may not be something tangible). There are people who are perfectly happy being kindergarten teachers(not many, I agree, but there are) and in that case money doesn’t really play much of a role except to perhaps just help them receive their basic needs. If someone says he wants to be a kindergarten teacher but then complains later on for not being able to buy a “mercedes” then that simply just means he didn’t really think through of what he really wanted, and he may have actually wanted more wealth, which he overlooked. Thus, I believe it’s not really money or wealth but rather first and foremost truly realizing what you really want is the most important part. Do you really think the professors who spend countless hours working on their research do it just for money or that if they were to be given smaller paychecks they would just quit their research? And for the amount of effort they put in, the money they receive is often quite feeble but they continue with their work regardless. To them their research makes them happy and such dedication towards their work requires a lot more than just an incentive of money.
My point basically is do not make such sweeping statements and/or generalizations like “money drives…soul” and “when money’s not a problem, nothing really is” based on ideals or values that you feel or think are “right.”

This is just an example of a place where you’re judging something based on your values–not everyone wishes for a “Merc.” So, if you are presenting everything you’ve said merely just as your own opinion then say so explicitly rather than just presenting them as facts.
Broaden your mind to accept more possibilities.</p>

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<p>

This, however, I wholeheartedly agree with and this message of yours did not come off from your original post; but instead the message that came off from the OP was more or less “screw everything, chase after money because that’s all that matters and anyone who thinks otherwise is ‘naive.’”
Also by the reasoning of finding a balance, knowing which college graduates get paid the most doesn’t really matter because all you’re looking for is the “balance” i.e. a place from where you can just the “right”(the definition of which may vary) amount of money once you graduate while at the same time allowing you to achieve all your other realistically possible goals.</p>

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<p>Regarding the Cooper Union comment, I think there’s a discrepancy due to payscale’s methodology:</p>

<p>From PayScale:
Engineering School: Any school (public or private) which grant more than 50% of their undergraduate degrees in math, sciences, computer science, engineering and engineering technology majors based on data from IPEDS. The idea is to identify science, engineering and technology focused schools.</p>

<p>From Cooper Union’s 2010 Fact Sheet:
Approximately 1,000 full-time undergraduate
students:
-50 percent in engineering;
-35 percent in art;
-15 percent in architecture;</p>

<p>Art and architecture aren’t exactly known for particularly high levels of compensation, so I feel that this would definitely skew Cooper Union’s numbers. The same thing often happens when people consider Cooper Union’s standardized test scores for the entire school.</p>

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<p>Well at the outset I would like to say that money DOES matter a LOT.
I can totally relate to the mercedes showroom example that monkey mentioned. I pass an Audi showroom everyday to and from school. My dream car, the Audi A8, is on display in its full glory. I hope to be able to afford that $100k-ish car someday!</p>

<p>Anyway, in my opinion the payscale data is pretty inaccurate. How is it that UCLA and Michigan grads earn so less?</p>

<p>The whole “salary” debate is very subjective. My sister and bro-in-law have a masters degree and earn around 130k each barely 4 years into their job. And yes, the comp scientist earns more than the chemical engineer!</p>

<p>You really cannot make assumptions like if you did petrochem at HMC you’ll become a millionaire. </p>

<p>There are SO many factors involved man</p>

<p>Firstly, when you’re from a prestigious college, jobs come to you, you don’t go looking for jobs.
In a volatile economy like today, it has been observed that students from good universities have more stable jobs… Atleast that’s what I’ve observed from the people I know!
In addition, being a Michigan/Harvard/Stanford/yougetthepoint alum gives you a better overall education which does translate into better life-skills hence you make better career decisions. </p>

<p>Also, WHERE you live really matters! For example, a 150k salary in california is probably equivalent to a 100k salary in NY because the cost of living is much higher in california </p>

<p>And also, I think they’re taking the whole university into consideration, therefore HMC has such high numbers because it is ONLY ENGINEERING! </p>

<p>I’d suggest you’ll don’t go by the numbers. Go to a very good college that you think you can excel at, do well there and get a good job.</p>

<p>I would also like to say that UCB/Mich/Cornell grads do MUCH BETTER in like than grads from places like Bucknell University and New Mexico Tech!</p>

<p>Monkey, I was really busy these past few days hence I couldn’t reply to your FB message. Will reply now! :slight_smile: </p>

<p>These rankings are complete BS. Seriously.</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>ani, I agree with most of what you are saying except this one. This idea of overall education thing is often used to justify spending $$$$$ to get a degree from a name brand university. Even at second or third tier schools you get very good exposure to liberal arts which what most people claim will lead to better life-skills. I abhor condescending attitude people exhibit to fine institutions like Penn State. ;)</p>

20

<p>

</p>

<p>HAHAHA.
I wouldn’t mind attending PSU if they gave me full or 90% aid but they don’t offer aid I think. Apparently, Google recruits more people from Penn State than from Harvard! :)</p>

<p>Well I’m trying to say that a top institution has an eclectic mix of people and you tend to meet very different people in the workplace so you kind of do better since you’ve interacted with people across all majors (psychologists, artists, etc etc)</p>

<p>But then again I think I’m just blabbering.</p>