<p>Well, my son has narrowed his choices to two. So, the problem? </p>
<p>Choice #1
His "dream school", of course. Loves everything about it. Accepted into a fine arts program. Located in a cool city. School has a great reputation for technology and fine arts. S is conservatively artsy, so he would be a great fit. However, the financial aid came in with a very bad offer. We will appeal, but as it stands he would owe $75,000 in student loans by the time he graduates. The school is traditional, so he would get a well-rounded education. </p>
<p>Choice #2
He applied here because they sent him a free application. Located in a different cool city. Accepted into a fine arts program, the honors program, and given very decent financial aid. Visited a few weeks ago (before he was accepted into the program at choice #1), and liked it well enough. This school is known for its internship programs, so he may be able to graduate without debt, although it will take him longer to graduate because of the internships. This is a non-traditional program (2+4), so he will miss out on much of the traditional college experience.</p>
<p>Is this a no-brainer? We've had the sit-down talk about finances, but that amount of money is not something that an 18 year old can easily comprehend. Yes, I know that choice #2 seems like the obvious choice. </p>
<p>But, at what point is choice #1 worth it? Would it ever be?</p>
<p>$75k at 8% (if you can get it) with a 1% origination fee comes out to $919/month paid off over 10 years. At 10% of income, it would require he average $110,000 in income his first 10 years after graduation (unless you are paying for it). A fine arts major in this economy?</p>
<p>Is either one a B Arch or are the degrees a BA? If a BA, will you be required to take more classes to get the professional credentials to work as an architect? If so, $75K may be too low a figure.</p>
<p>I guess I need to clarify my question. Yes, I know $75,000 is too much. We aren’t considering that he go into that much debt. We have appealed the decision. If they come back with nothing, well, there you go. </p>
<p>But, if they do come back with something, well…I’m wondering, at what point is it worth it? When does the traditional college experience, the superior program, and yes, the prestige (sorry, but that does play a little into his dream) become something to consider? How much is it worth in the real world? What is the currency of this?</p>
<p>The government believes that the maximum a student should take out in loans over four years is $20k, so that’s what they offer in subsidized Stafford loans. Architects “might” make a little more (though in the new economy, who knows?) So say, $30k max.</p>
<p>Go to the [FinAid</a>! Financial Aid, College Scholarships and Student Loans](<a href=“http://www.finaid.org%5DFinAid”>http://www.finaid.org) calculator and play with it a bit.</p>
<p>We’ve all tried to wrestle with this question of how much debt is too much over a nuimber of threads on CC. Some have suggested 1 year’s starting salary should be the limit of debt someone should take out. $30-40K would be my thoughts about a limit–the debt for a luxury car. </p>
<p>Debt for an expensive car would be dumb, but it wouldn’t be a giant drag forever in a kid’s life. That’s how I come up with the 30-40K figure.</p>
<p>Similar dilemma:
D#2 (3rd child in college next fall), has heart set on Alfred UNive, BFA Ceramics, and it is the best ‘fit’ for her, but price tag too high even with Presidential Scholarship and a couple of smaller grants, were out of state, so extra fees apply. Compare against almost full ride to Univ of Michigan, BFA Art & Design, a prestigious program, but not what she’s looking for, but with good opportunity for grad school admission back at Alfred or (any where else) she chooses to finish her art training. Our family is soo conflicted. Help!</p>
<p>So, how much does an average potter make in the first 10 years of her career?</p>
<p>I don’t think there’s much to be conflicted about. She won’t be doing herself or her career any favors in taking on more debt that she can afford (unless you are planning to pay for it during that 10 year period).</p>
<p>Again, play with the Finaid.org calculator.</p>
<p>Everyone has submitted excellent information. Thank you.</p>
<p>But, I still wonder. It’s not so much specific dollars and cents (sense? ha.) that I am thinking about, but more of a concept: what gives a school intrinsic value? What is the value of the degree from that school? What is the value of the education during the time of attendance? </p>
<p>When do these things come into play and take over the financial end of it?</p>
<p>The question is if you, the parents and he, are willing and able to take on the debt. Our son is taking out some loans, unsubsidized so we are paying the interest for him while he is in school. We are also taking out loans. We are HOPING to take over his loans when he graduates. However, we are talking $10K for him total over 4 years and maybe $20-40K for us. Even then I worry. I am ever so grateful that the older two have no loans as we were able to pay full freight for the oldest and the second one is at at state school that is affordable. As it is, we are hoping that we can go without loans next year since we’ll only have the one in college then. We’ll have to borrow again when #4 will be in college along with the third one in 3 years.</p>
<p>If the numbers are not doable, it is not even a question. Even when they are doable, it scares me.</p>
<p>To answer the last question, in my opinion - Never, if the student and family can’t reasonably afford it. To do so would be to do no one any favors.</p>
<p>To put it another way, to quantify it, “intrinsic value” is worth 20k in student debt (at most $30k, if entering a high-paying profession). As to what you (not the student) are willing to pay, well, you have to figure that out for yourself.</p>
<p>I am in full agreement with Mini. Even when it is affordable, it is nerve racking to take on that kind of debt. It’s not like all kids are going to be making a lot of money once they are out. My oldest is barely making it (and I think his alma mater is your son’s dream school). This is with NO loans. I don’t even want to think about the second one who will be a starving artist, probably still in my pocketbook after graduation next month. Again, he does not have loans. Am hoping the third one goes into some profession that is lucrative. He is thinking med school which will be more loans, which is why we want to take over his loans if at all feasible.</p>
Let me ask you this: why don’t you have your son take on $25K worth of debt in student loans, and you - the parent- take on $50K worth of debt? Is it worth it to YOU to shoulder the extra $50K in debt to see your kid go to his dream school?</p>
<p>If not, why not? Why would you be willing to saddle your 18 year old kid with debt that you are not willing to take on? </p>
<p>I’m asking this because I am in the $75K is too much camp, but in addition to my daughter’s Stafford loans (~$20K), I’m picking up about $30K of debt in PLUS loans to put her through college, and I decided from the outset that I was willing to borrow up to $40K for each of my kids. So I’m a little bit taken aback by the fact that you are asking the debt question as a parent. (I mean, there is an alternative: “no, that’s too much debt; I’m sorry, but we just can’t afford it.” I’ve said it to each of my kids. Part of me will alway wonder if my kids would have been happier at that 1st choice school they each turned down - but I’m pretty confident we made the right choice when it came to finances).</p>
<p>I agree with Calmom too. As I posted earlier, that is what we are doing. But when we project our numbers and our needs in future years, we can see how it would not be wise for us to take on more debt beyond a point.</p>
<p>I’m not asking my kid to take out that much debt. If choice #1 doesn’t come back with a much better offer, it’s not going to happen. I agree that $25,000 seems like the top of reasonable loans. Rest assured, $75,000 isn’t going to happen. And back in the original post, I said that he could get through choice #2’s program with little or no debt (he could feasibly end up ahead because of the internship). And our state school is an option (but the program isn’t quite right). It’s his choice (except for the $75,000 part, of course).</p>
<p>I’m being philosophical, not looking for numbers, although I appreciate the accounting end of it. I just gave the numbers in the original post because that is what got me to thinking.</p>
<p>How much is a superior (subjective) education worth? How much is the name worth? How do we judge this? By the amount of money he will make when he graduates? By the contacts he makes down the road? </p>
<p>What about education for education’s sake? What is that worth? Let’s assume that he gets a more well-rounded education at choice #1. Is college a means to an end? Has it become a trade school? I mean no disrespect toward trade schools-historically,the comparison is apples and oranges.</p>
<p>“If choice #1 doesn’t come back with a much better offer, it’s not going to happen.”</p>
<p>Then why are you asking for input? It sounds like you have already made up your mind that the more expensive option is not worth the cost - at least to you. Do you just want others to agree so you feel better about the decision?</p>