<p>The more college sites I visit, the more freaked out I get regarding the lack of moral values on college campuses (kids getting wasted, doing drugs, using eachother for sexual pleasure)...Is it as widespread as it seems? I think I finally discover a great college only to read scary stories written by students about "getting wasted and then getting some good a**." It's all so debasing. Do we really want to send out our kids into this environment for the sake of higher learning? Where are our priorities? I'd like your thoughts on this.</p>
<p>It's all true. They would probably do the same thing if they were hanging around at home after HS and working. It's just a little easier at college. It's what kids do.</p>
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It's what kids do.
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<p>^ Not all kids, and not all kids to the same degree.</p>
<p>Hopefully, if one has raised their child with a moral compass, one does not need to worry too much. Frankly, I sleep well at night. I know that my son is having a good time, but I also know that he is not doing anything that I would find to be way out of line. Readers may think that I am naive, but I know my kids, and frankly, I really am not worried.</p>
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<p>Do we really want to send out our kids into this environment for the sake of higher learning? Where are our priorities?</p>
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<p>I agree with northeastmom. Campus culture matters a lot in terms of "fit," but it isn't going to corrupt a freshman who has (1) learned solid values at home and (2) had some opportunity to exercise his moral judgment in context before leaving home.</p>
<p>It's not the college, it's the kids! Some partake and some do not. There are varying levels of partying. Some party behaviors are dangerous, many are not.</p>
<p>You know your child and if he/she is a party person now. If not, have some conversations before you send him/her off.</p>
<p>Overall I think morality is at a higher degree than when I was in school--perhaps it's the difference between where my kids attend(ed) and where I did (ranked #1 party school by Rolling Stone). But in my day I don't think I ever heard of college students doing community service unless required by a sorority or as a punishment. I also see students having more concern for the safety and well being of others than I did back in my day (designated drivers, girls going to parties on buddy system, etc). Yeah, the "wild" ones make the news, but I do believe on the whole this is a pretty good generation of kids.</p>
<p>I have one child that would have gone off the rails in a nunnery and another that I feel confident will exercise good judgement in college.</p>
<p>I agree with mkm56 that there are a lot more socially conscious kids these days.</p>
<p>It has nothing to do with college, trust me!</p>
<p>My younger brother never attended college and is of college age (turning 22 next week). He parties with the best (or worst?) of them and is on his way to getting into a lot of trouble (I wish I could help him, but I can't...he has to help himself)! He acts just like a 'college' kid but doesn't have the pressure of going to classes and keeping in school (heck, my dad employs him, so he doesn't even have to worry about keeping his job). </p>
<p>Me on the other hand, I did go to college and graduated and only went to one party during my undergraduate career (first weekend freshman year). I drink more now in graduate school than ever, but it's mostly due to stress.</p>
<p>My younger sister (23) is a happy medium of the two of us. She attended college for awhile (and is now back in college to complete her degree) and partied like crazy in high school and part of college. She still parties and has fun, but she is definately calming down and settling into her adult life.</p>
<p>Being 'in college' is just a cover to rationalize their actions.</p>
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kids getting wasted, doing drugs, using each other for sexual pleasure
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<p>That pretty much describes my alma mater, which continues to have a reputation as a heads-down scholarly nerd school. Half the incoming class self-identified as "pre-med." I started school in 1974, and the only real change I hear is binge-drinking. Students at my college drank a lot, but I didn't see as much drinking-until-passing-out as I hear reported on CC. OK, it's possible there was more (maybe a LOT more) pot-smoking back then. (I'm pretty sure there were a lot more hard-core smokers than drinkers.)</p>
<p>Specifically, my D is interested in Brown. She loves the mix of the beautiful college campus in a nice small city with lots to do. But as I did some research (on the internet), I read some scary stories about naked parties, casual sex, etc.
Can anyone enlighten me on this? What is the moral atmosphere of Brown?</p>
<p>There's always Liberty U.</p>
<p>The one thing that I did worry about is that at one school there was no access to public transit. The school was too rural. There were frequent weekend runs to "Walmart". This was apparently part of the weekend experience for some students. I worried about drunk driving at that school. The school that my son attends provides public transportation, and taxis are available if needed (they are inexpensive). My son has actually taken a taxi a few times (ie: he got caught in a terrible rainstorm one evening, and left without a raincoat. 5 students split the cab fare and cost him $2 to get back to his dorm).</p>
<p>About "naked parties"-my son does not got to Brown, but he has seen "streakers" on his campus (seems to be an annual thing, I believe around homecoming weekend, but not sure. One professor told one of his classes that this occurs annually). I don't worry about things like this. As long as my kids are not the "streakers", I don't care, and if I did, I could not do anything about it anyway.</p>
<p>From what I have heard of the culture at Brown, it is a place where people are very accepting of others' choices.</p>
<p>Thus, students are not likely to feel pressured into doing anything that they would feel uncomfortable doing.</p>
<p>On the other hand, opportunities abound to do anything imaginable -- and probably some things that most of us could not imagine.</p>
<p>I find it very interesting that "morality" in this thread appears to be defined as "sexual and substance abuse behavior." Is there no other morality that might just be, maybe, a bit more important?</p>
<p>A few thoughts -
there was a lot of sex, drugs and rock n roll when we were in college.
There is also a lot of boasting and bragging that is as much wishful thinking as has a basis in reality.
There is a lot of experimentation of all sorts, that is a normal part of growing up - kids need to have a firm moral basis, a strong idea of right and wrong, a sense of self-worth, a sure idea of where their parents stand on these issues, AND good information on how to keep themselves safe and non-pregnant.
Brown is no better or no worse than a large number of other schools - it is more liberal than some, and that may merit some discussion with your child, if you think she would be disturbed - after all though, part of college is being disturbed and exposed to new and different ways of thinking.
Something tells me there is a fair amount of shock value and curiosity seeking in the famous Brown and Yale nude parties and the rumored clothing optional dorms. I wonder sometimes how many multipe repeaters show up. If semi-public nudism was really such super fun, wouldn't it be more common??</p>
<p>I have a bigger problem with the papier-mache sculptures of giant condoms, obscene chalkings, and co-ed bathrooms famously discussed at some schools. I honestly think that most 18 year olds are not excited or liberated by sharing a bathroom with 4-5 members of the opposite sex - maybe as juniors or seniors sharing a suite with friends of their own choosing, but complete strangers as frosh - doesn't sound appealing to me.</p>
<p>My personal opinion is that morality is individual, not institutional. If you are not talking about religious institutions, then it seems to me that the "level of morality" on any given college campus will depend on the person you are speaking to. My experience with kids at 2 different universities is that there are all types of students and all types of activities available. It is up to the individual to choose their friends and their activities based on whatever morality is important to them.</p>
<p>No doubt morality can be defined in many ways. However, using others as a chattel (for sexual pleasure only) ranks up there in the immorality scale...Isn't that what we are trying to fight against in many third world countries? Why do we turn a blind eye to it in our own back yard? Morality can be defined as having dignity and respect for ourselves as well as our fellow humans.</p>
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<p>Can anyone enlighten me on this? What is the moral atmosphere of Brown?</p>
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<p>It depends on what you mean by morality. If you're asking whether there will be many kids engaging in illegal drug use, underage drinking, homosexual dating, and premarital sex, yes, it's a safe bet that a majority of kids at Brown will be doing at least one of those regularly during their four years. It's also a safe bet that a majority of participants in those activities will not go to any trouble to conceal the fact that they are occurring, and that the vast majority of non-participants will not raise an eyebrow about it.</p>
<p>The above is true at pretty much every selective college in the country other than those specifically devoted to a religious tradition. At Brown, in particular, I'd say it's also true that while students are not pressured to participate, a student who publicly voiced her disapproval of, say, premarital sex and its practitioners might face some social isolation.</p>
<p>At a recent professional meeting, my son was in town presenting at a student
section of the AMA. A female classmate was also present, who was bright and mature. She had attended a reputable LAC. What prompted the conversation was a pamphlet provided to student participants (all over 21)
about social venues in town. For one of the bars it stated, shots and beer only, no mixed drinks. </p>
<p>Do female students go to bars to drink shots, I naively asked. And this is where her story began about how female behavior has changed over the years. Her friends wake up hung over in someones bed often stating to their
female friends afterwards, that they were too intoxicated to recall consenting to sex or whatever. </p>
<p>This college is a reputable school, not a social mecca. My other son, the one still in college, is at an engineering school. He complains constantly about the scarcity of women, 25%. But the school is in a time warp because of the
science nerds that it attracts.</p>
<p>As a male, we drank some in college and were as hedonistic as was reasonable, but the offerings were slim. In my opinion, it is the change in female behavior that has initiated the current status on campus. Most normal boys in college, have a normally large sex drive and attempt to satisfy it. This has always been true.</p>
<p>Rules, segregated men's and women's dorms, and female restraint kept things in check. Now, by our standards things have changed. </p>
<p>Drinking to excess is another issue that been addressed extensively on cc.
My conclusion, based upon reports of students, is that things are a lot worse than the average parent envisions. Binge drinking is way out of control.</p>
<p>We must take responsibility for our children, and support serious school efforts to control drinking. </p>
<p>curiousmother- YOU ARE ON TRACK TO BE CONCERNED.</p>
<p>Furthermore, I believe that campus culture does influence students; it's always not our student.</p>
<p>To me, it is a combination. The college I attended in the 70s was known as a party school, but the parties I attended were dorm-sponsored parties that had no alcohol & campus YWCA parties which had a lot of nice senior citizens who made great potlucks! I never felt pressured to drink or do anything I didn't feel comfortable doing. My niece is now at that same school & very happy. It's rep as a party school has grown, but she is definitely NOT a party animal, nor are her friends or BF. At large school, you can find your niche & just about any niche you look for.</p>
<p>My S is at USC, which has still has some rep as a party school. My S has never been much of a partier & is having a wonderful time with his nerdy/geeky engineering friends. Their idea of a great time is playing an electronic/computer/video game, going out to eat, or watching sports.</p>
<p>A friend's S who is at UPenn was pretty homesick because as a freshman, he was surrounded by kids who drank excessively on a regular basis. I believe he's found his niche as a soph, but he was shocked at how many kids drank so much.</p>
<p>My niece is at Notre Dame. I believe they have a more "common culture" in that there is more self-selection of kids who are Catholic or at least comfortable with Catholic values. They also have strict rules about boys not being allowed in girls' dorms after hours (not sure if there are rules about girls being in boys dorms too). My friend's son is at Wheaton in Illinois, which has a strong Christian component & has each kid sign a contractual code when they matriculate. These are among the few schools I know that have strong religous components to their schools & consequently considerable self-selection among student applicants.</p>