<p>Should there be "eating club" scholarships for poor kids?</p>
<p>... from a Daily Princetonian editorial, Monday, March 27:</p>
<p>" If there is one thing that is "quintessentially Princeton," it is the beautiful cluster of mansions that line Prospect Avenue. But beyond the beer and the breathtaking backyards lies the indisputable fact that the eating clubs divide the student body along socioeconomic lines. Many students do not really get to choose which club they want to bicker or sign-into or even if they can join a club at all simply because they cannot afford club dues. Students who are forced into this position often feel isolated from their friends and the larger social scene at Princeton. As a result, many of the clubs suffer from a lack of economic diversity, while the clubs and University both get labeled as elitist.</p>
<pre><code>The University has chosen to deal with this problem by introducing social alternatives to the clubs, including the three four-year residential colleges.
But given the fact that about 75 percent of upperclassmen identify with one of the Prospect mansions, it is unlikely that the eating clubs are going anywhere soon. Plans for four-year colleges are likely to intensify the division of students between "haves" and "have nots." The "haves" will continue to join eating clubs, while the "have nots" will join the residential colleges. This kind of two-tiered social life should be avoided at all costs...."
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<p>It would be interesting to hear from some current students about this subject. From those who belong to an eating club; how do you use your membership? From those who don't; how do you perceive the clubs? From those in the residential colleges; how is this working out?</p>
<p>Byerly, you left out the critical statements in the editorial. Hooray for the current undergraduates pushing this proposal! I think this would be wonderful. Here's what the students wrote in the editorial:</p>
<p>"We believe that it is essential for the University, the ICC and the clubs to work together to provide a comprehensive financial aid program for eating club members. We also support USG president Alex Lenahan '07 and other USG members who are currently working to pass a resolution in support of such a plan."</p>
<p>I think this is great news. The cost of joining an eating club is only a little more than the cost of a food contract from the University. Even so, it's true that a number of students can't afford the difference. I think that it's wonderful that the current students are lobbying the administration to help provide additional financial support so that more students can join the clubs. What many prospective students don't understand is that about half of them are "sign-in" clubs, meaning that anyone can join if they wish. Providing additional funding to help make that possible would be great!</p>
<p>Also, as I have said before here, the cost of even the most expensive eating clubs bring the total cost up to no more than many peer schools' tuition, room and board, since Princeton is the least expensive Ivy.</p>
<p>Isn't "bickering" the term used for the process of signing up for the clubs not everyone can join? Perhaps Byerly was making a play on words?</p>
<p>Part of the problem may be the bicker process. My Princeton interviewer noted that some of the bicker eating clubs take into consideration "how many ponies you have," but that this is hardly the case for all the bicker clubs.</p>
<p>Social exclusion at some of the eating clubs is an issue that has rankled many Princetonians but the phenomenon is not limited to Princeton. As you'll note from the above link, many Harvard undergraduates (to their credit) are opposed to the exclusivity of the Harvard Final clubs which are all male. At Yale, the Secret Societies elicit similar negative reactions from many of the undergraduates. </p>
<p>Defenders of the Secret Societies and Final Clubs point out that only a small percentage of undergraduates at Harvard and Yale belong to them and they don't dominate the social scene. That is certainly true but the comparison is one of apples to oranges. At Princeton, more than half of the clubs are open to whoever wishes to join and all are coed. While they have a very strong influence on the social scene, one needn't be a member of a club to go to its parties. I never belonged but spent a great deal of time in the clubs having been invited by friends. The "sign-in" clubs at Princeton are nothing like the Final Clubs or Secret Societies at Harvard and Yale. Even the clubs that continue to use the bicker system (fewer than half of all clubs) are quite open in the sense that their parties are typically crowded by non-member friends and members of other "sign-in" clubs. </p>
<p>At Princeton, the only club that has traditionally come close to the atmosphere at the Final Clubs and Secret Societies (and even here the comparison is strained) is Ivy Club and it is probably the club to which your interviewer was referring. However, I doubt even they ask about the number of "ponies" you own. I think your interviewer was pulling your leg. Ivy has a total of about 135 members, men and women from the junior and senior classes, constituting about 2.8% of all undergraduates, hardly a dominant social force.</p>
<p>if you think some of the eating clubs are exclusive and elitist... just don't join them. i don't get what the debate is here. i think the idea of financial aid for eating clubs is a good idea tho.</p>
<p>but if a bunch of rich students want to go off and be elitist and judge everyone by how much money they have, **** em.</p>
<p>Students now will have the choice of bicker eating clubs, non-bicker eating clubs, staying in a four-year residential college, joining a co-op, cooking their own meals or going solo. For some students, the eating club is the quintessential Princeton experience and what they will remember most fondly. But if eating clubs are not your thing, nowadays there are plenty of other sides to Princeton that can make your experience a paradise.</p>
<p>hey! i have a pony! (horse really, and he was cheap, and rescued, don't worry). i haven't heard anything damning about eating clubs in person--but my only sources are my tour guide and alumni interview, so they're just a tad biased. socially, I really don't see the difference between eating clubs and greek stuff... eating clubs seem to be the better option, from the limited amount i know. Ha, I hear the food is pretty good (and what is the quintessence of an eating club if it isn't the food)...</p>
<p>No fire, just a lot of smoke. Unfortunately, this is probably the time of year when we should expect it. I'm sure fire was that for which the original poster was hoping. I see by your location description that you're headed for Harvard (or is it MIT?). Congratulations and good luck in your freshman year!</p>
<blockquote>
<p>many Harvard undergraduates (to their credit) are opposed to the exclusivity of the Harvard Final clubs which are all male.<<</p>
</blockquote>
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<p>Nope. There are female finals clubs as well. You should have said they are all single-sex.</p>
<p>Coureur, that's good news (I suppose). I'm curious, however. Based on the date of the Crimson article I cited above (October 2004) they must have been founded within the last 16 months. How many are there and how do undergraduate women join them? Is it by invitation only like the all male clubs?</p>
<p>Princeton will be a much better place without eating club. Eating club is one of many factors that keeps best students from applying to Princeton and prompts acceptees to defect to "HSYM" over Princeton when they have a choice.</p>
<p>There are two female Final clubs that I am aware of, called Isis and Bee, and they have been there for years, not months, although one is older than the other. Members join by a rush ("punch" in Harvardspeak) process.</p>
<p>I personally do not consider these or the men's clubs to be "good news".</p>
<p>Re the eating clubs vs. fraternities (although Princeton has both, and sororities as well, which Harvard also has): eating clubs are nonresidential and coed. It is hard to generalize about the eating clubs, and their reputations -- based on some disgracefully biased policies long in the past -- lag way behind their current reality. What tends to draw students to one or another is not their parents' income or status but their involvement in particular activities on campus, i.e., the arts, journalism, water sports, engineering, and team sports.</p>
<p>"Eating club is one of many factors that keeps best students from applying to Princeton and prompts acceptees to defect to "HSYM" over Princeton when they have a choice."</p>
<p>this is absurd, there is no way it is true.</p>