More Changes to the Honors Program and the Retirement of Tulane Scholars (In Name Only).

@SoProudofMyChildren

My main guess is that they want to give the students a specific target at the start of their senior year, It is also possible that when you combine the time to process and compare and then get the information in the programs and on the diplomas, it is faster if the target is already set, although with computers being so fast now I doubt that is the issue, but still it could be for reasons I am not thinking of. In any case the year to year variation is extremely small I am sure, as the Duke data would indicate. I doubt Tulane is any different.

As far as summa always being top 5%, the answer is no for Tulane and no in general, there is no accepted definition. Schools are free to use whatever criteria they want, although in my limited searching the top 5% or systems that come close to that seem to be the most common. Tulane actually used to be a lot easier to get summa as far as GPA, and this answers your first question about the old system. Until 2 years ago (or maybe it was 3 years ago) summa was a flat 3.80 and magna a flat 3.60, BUT you had to be in the HP as it was constituted at the time and that required doing a senior thesis as well, as well as taking some honors courses, but there weren’t that many.

I never liked that system. To now answer your last question, there has indeed been a lot of grade inflation in those intervening years and at most schools. Some of it is justified in the sense that so many students come in better prepared than in the past, with a lot more AP courses and even college courses at a local school. This subject has been argued to death over the last 20 years give or take, so we won’t beat it up again in this thread. But again I point to the Duke data, where the minimum GPA for summa has been running about 3.935. When you are bumping up that close to the 4.0 maximum, 35/100th’s is a lot.

@fallenchemist

You said, “Wall is now the preferred freshman residence hall for HP students, a welcome change from Butler IMO.”

Why is this your opinion? We visited campus but you only get a glance at a dorm, so I have no opinion about Wall vs Butler.

@WineDrinker

Wall is much newer than Butler, and is suite style with a handful of students sharing a central bath. Butler is the hall style bath. Most students seem to prefer the suites, even though they are responsible for cleaning their own bathrooms. Here is the floor plan for Butler https://tulane.edu/studentaffairs/housing/under/upload/BUTLER-Floorplan.pdf and here is Wall https://tulane.edu/studentaffairs/housing/under/upload/wallfp.pdf

Butler is pretty much the same from the 2nd floor on up. I didn’t wait for the Wall plans to fully load, but I assume the 2nd floor is representative of most of the dorm.

Visited DD1 at Tulane this past weekend. She is in Honors and was in Tulane Scholars and is a freshman. She is unhappy about the suspension of Tulane Scholars, as she really considered the Newcomb Scholars program, and may have pursued that if she had known Tulane Scholars was being suspended three months later.

The following are a mix of her, and my, observations about the Honors program past and future.

In the past, the Honors program has really been an empty suit, without that many benefits. There are very few honors-specific sections of any of the classes at Tulane, with the exception of the honors colloquium and the second semester Tulane Scholars class. My view is that the honors program has been as more of a recruitment tool for incoming freshman as it is an actual program to have current students focus on research and scholarship since there really haven’t been that many benefits. These benefits may not be clear to a freshman, and may have come later in DD’s time in college. DD applied to Tulane Scholars specifically because she wanted to get more focused advising and guidance, and chances at scholarships or fellowships than existed in just the Honors program.

There is no second-class status for non-honors students. Lots of non-honors students live in Butler with students in the honors program, and room together. Students just don’t talk that much about whether they’re in, or not in honors. I think with the overall increase in competiveness to get into Tulane over the last years, any student that gets in is going to be capable of getting really good grades if they want to be studious.

Living in Butler has not really been a benefit, it is one of the older dorms and not very nice. I think the fact that an Honors student was guaranteed a room in Butler, and could not be put in a “party” dorm or the all-girls dorm, was the only benefit. Wall is viewed by most as a nicer dorm, so the move of Honors housing to Wall will be an improvement.

The GPA requirement seems appropriate. To any incoming students, you may be surprised about how well-prepared your are for the academics at college if you had a rigorous schedule in high school, and avoid “getting lost in the sauce” as one professor cautioned their mostly freshman class.

My final advice to those who get into honors would be to take advantage of the now-nice honors dorm Wall if you really want to avoid other housing your freshman year, and not worry about whether or not you stay in honors for Sophomore year. And my advice for those who don’t get into honors is not worry about being second-class citizens, there really aren’t that many current benefits to being in honors, I know that there is going to be an effort to improve the program, but there is no evidence of any changes on the ground yet.

@Bigmacattack

I agree with most of your post, but completely and thoroughly disagree with the two following statements.

Well, I don’t disagree that she is unhappy, but I disagree that she has reason to be.

I really don’t understand what she is perceiving and what you are saying. Everything that was in the Tulane Scholars program is now the Honors Program. In total reality, as I have tried to say as clearly as possible, is that Tulane Scholars has just been renamed as the Honors Program. Can you point to one thing that was being made available via Tulane Scholars that isn’t in the new Honors Program? Everything is there and a bit more. Of course there are no changes on the ground yet in the sense that Tulane Scholars isn’t officially retired until Fall 2016 and the Honors Program has all those same requirements as of that date.

I strongly urge her to talk to Dr. Luongo in person, which will undoubtedly be more effective than trying to make it clear this way.

I do think that t keeping a 3.8Gpa sounds extreme, especially if it’s tied to scholarships.

@MYOS1634

But it is not tied to scholarships. At all. Where did you get that from?

My mistake then. - because many students with merit scholarships are in honors (under any name). Sorry.

@MYOS1634

OK, just to let you know how it works at Tulane, they give a variety of merit scholarships where every applicant is automatically considered. There are 6 (I believe) levels of these scholarships ranging from $10,000 to $32,000. Students awarded the top two levels are generally invited to the Honors Program, but they don’t have to join it. Every one of those scholarships, however, remains in place if the student maintains a 2.75 GPA, regardless of whether they join the HP or not. The full tuition and better scholarships require a separate application and require a 3.0 to retain. Now IMO both of those GPA’s are unusually generous, but in any case have zero to do with the HP.

The essential idea of the 3.8, I think, is that a student in the Honors Program should be able to graduate at least magna cum laude. At Tulane that represents that top 15% of the class, and that is generally very near 3.8 and above. I think for an HP to mean anything in terms of having standards as representing the best and brightest at Tulane, that is not an unreasonable way to look at it. Obviously there are differing opinions on the matter.

I understand - both can be had, but are not related. :slight_smile:
Thanks for clearing that up.

A female student could only participate in either Newcomb Scholars or Tulane Scholars, not both. DD choose to apply for Tulane Scholars, wrote the essay, got recommendation(s), and got in. So she applied for something that no longer requires an application, doesn’t exist under its former name, and had to forgo another opportunity. So she is mildly upset, and whishes she had this information last semester, but she’ll move on.

She is waiting to see what the benefits of the new Honors Program will be going forward. But as a freshman, it is just a required class first semester, and another required class second semester.

Well, going forward there is also the requirement to participate in Wall Societies, and as a sophomore to be there for the freshmen as well. You are right that there is no longer an application, but it turns out the same in the end. It just changed from “opt in” to “opt out”, but the ones doing the opting are the very top students from the new class. The exceptions will be those that earn their way in. Newcomb Scholars is also a series of seminars as the only obvious differentiating feature, along with being part of a small cohort (all female in this case) and having to do research. The cohort may be co-ed for HP, but participating in research is the same. What was NS offering that HP now isn’t, but was at the time she made her decision?

I continue to wonder why the name is an issue in the least. If the program were identical to what it is now in every single way but they had decided to retain Top Scholars instead of HP, would that make it better? I am not trying to be argumentative in the negative sense, I just really don’t get the fixation on the name. It is substance that counts, and the substance is EXACTLY what it was, and a bit more when she decided between NS and TS in the first place. She “forewent” (is that a word?) the NS opportunity under the exact same offerings as she has now, except for a name change. Because for her class, at least, the cohort of TS remains the same under the HP name. I am mystified at all this angst over things that don’t exist or mean nothing. A rose is a rose is a rose.

This is probably a redundant question, but does this mean my daughter is guaranteed housing in Wall and doesn’t have to fill out an application or write an essay? Thanks

The essay is eliminated for HP students I am virtually certain. I think it said that someplace, but I will double check and get back to you, @X22011. But I think she still needs to fill out the form, put Wall as #1 choice and probably just note that she is in the HP. At that point yes, it should be a sure thing.

Thanks, that is what we thought.

This all sounds very cool and was super resourceful to me (prospective honors student), so thanks for the post!

I have a son who is a freshman and in the Honors Program. First term he registered early, which was great. Beyond that, I am hard pressed to see many perks. His advisor has been nice but totally uninformed so not much help. Why wouldn’t there be some more formal outreach to this group of talented kids? Seems like there is so much more that could be done besides just offering the money and communal housing. If there is more to come, it would be great to let the kids and their parents know.

@sharon142

Everyone pretty much agreed with you that the Honors Program, as it was, was not much of an advantage or extra experience. That is why it has been revamped starting this Fall. Rather than go through the changes, I strongly suggest that your son make an appointment with Tom Luongo, head of the program, or just find out what his office hours are and stop by then. He can then have a personalized discussion as to how he can take maximum advantage of the HP as it will be run going forward. But I know every member currently in the HP was sent an email right before I posted this thread explaining the upcoming changes. Parents are almost never sent that kind of information. That is up to your child to do.

thanks. good idea. he met with someone in the office during first semester and it was not helpful. will make that suggestion.

@fallenchemist thanks for your informed and thorough posts on Tulane. Given the Honors Program is a recasting of what was Tulane Scholars, do you have any insight into if/how engineering students have been able to participate in TS given the rigid sequencing and timing of engineering pre-reqs? More specifically, if trying to follow the BME recommended sequence, and Honors requirements, a student could be facing 18 credits…