<p>Thanks BassDad - I'd love to know how you did this search. This is a great list and I feel good knowing that we are looking at a number of these but there are plenty more to consider from the list. One surprise for me- I was under the mistaken impression that Oberlin had a larger percentage of grad students. I can't believe we left UNC - Greensboro without getting the number of grad students - but evidently, there are more than 15%.</p>
<p>Oberlin College/Conservatory has a grand total of 12 grad students, mostly in very specialized programs like Early Music. They are talking about reviving the Master's program in music ed, so the number could go up a bit.</p>
<p>UNC Greensboro has about 3800 grad students and about 13000 undergrads.</p>
<p>I am not supposed to link to other college oriented sites, but if you go to the website of the company that administers the SAT tests and look up the College MatchMaker, you should be able to do the kind of searches you want.</p>
<p>I have actually used that site but the day I used it last, I was on my laptop and I kept losing the search and finally gave up. </p>
<p>I am looking at the percentage undergrad/grad for just the vocal performance majors. I'm not sure there is any way to do that short of calling the schools once I narrow the choices. I'm starting to think there is a career out there for this kind of research - anyone want to start a business?</p>
<p>Aye, there's the rub. The grad/undergrad ratio may be very different in vocal performance than in the rest of the school (except for those schools that have virtually no grad students to begin with.) The kind of rough and ready lists that come from these search engines can identify promising possibilities, but will turn up good number of schools that are nothing like you want and will also miss a bunch that may be just perfect.</p>
<p>Regarding the business idea - things change so rapidly from year to year that it would be difficult to keep up with all of the necessary information. I'm not convinced that customers would be willing to pay enough to support all the work that would be required to do the job right. Feel free to prove me wrong, though.</p>
<p>BassDad, That's one heck of a list! We looked at Bard, as several of S's friends go there and love it but are not in music. I think Vocal performance is graduate only--correct me if wrong. But the Music Conservatory looks very exciting, with Dawn Upshaw involved and a new building and of course a musician as President of the college. Graduate Vocal program accept 8 students per year if I recall, but I think it's a really new program.</p>
<p>We visited Bard and found the conservatory far from exciting; be sure to visit. The faculty listed in the beautiful brochures are mostly adjuncts who are not there on a regular basis (the admissions officer, answering my question about why there were 5 piano faculty for a total of 5 students replied: "the professors have lives" -- apparently not at Bard); the facility was small, with few practice rooms, no community spaces, and no students about. (The Gehry practice hall is about a mile away at the other end of the campus.) They have also had trouble getting the program going, and no track record of graduates yet.</p>
<p>Yes, you have to visit, but I am told that some of best known conservatories have old worn down facilities so there is a balance there too. Some of them are in areas where it is difficult to build and retrofitting the old buildings is cost prohibitive.</p>
<p>The facility was not old or all that bad as a building, though it was pretty far from the rest of the campus; what was of more concern was that at the various times we were there during a day and a half it was practically empty -- and there were no hints of vibrancy (nothing much on the bulletin boards, not even names of professors and office hours on the doors); maybe someday it will be a livelier place...</p>
<p>mamenyu, that's really, really good to know. I would want to apply just because I love the colors on the Bard Conservatory of Music website--i'm so easily wooed! We did listen to the mp3 of chamber choir and were not bowled over. His friends who go are in dance, art, English.</p>
<p>In any case, it and sure proves you have to visit. We visited Minn/St Paul last week and absolutely loved the Carleton campus but only one student was in the music building, then went to St Olaf and it was constantly abuzz for the three or four hours we spent there over two days. Depends on priorities, as Carleton had many other fabulous things about it (theater, art, science, etc.) but son wants choral music (oratorio and ensemble rather than opera--am I saying this right?). I'm insisting on visiting when college is in session although the GC today said not to take too many days away from school next fall.</p>
<p>Bard is fairly new and appears to be somewhat spotty. We did not visit or even consider it seriously because they did not have a full orchestra program a couple of years back (and still may not for all I know.) That would not necessarily be a hindrance to a violinist, violist or cellist who were more interested in studying chamber music or solo repertoire, but it was not very helpful for a bassist.</p>
<p>I know a flutist and a cellist who are students there and they seem to like it. I know nothing at all about their vocal program other than Ms. Upshaw is associated with it. A quick look at their website does say that they are accepting only graduate vocal students.</p>
<p>Finding the time to visit is a challenge. DD's school has classes every other day - there's a name for this type of schedule that eludes me - so when she missed one day, it is like missing more than one day of those particular classes. Several of the teachers mark down a letter grade for missing a certain percentage of class time and since it is a performing arts school, she can't miss classes in her prime without it affecting her grades.</p>
<p>neumes,</p>
<p>If your son wants choral music over opera, there are few places better than Saint Olaf. I have been singing in choirs of all types for nearly forty years and Anton Armstrong is one of the best choral directors I have ever had the pleasure of working with. Their top choir is simply breathtaking. A good friend who is also an excellent choral director sent her daughter (a self-described "choir nerd") there and she loves it.</p>
<p>Ahh, that's so good to hear, and not surprising. Son sat in for 1 1/2 hours during a rehearsal of the top choir (Dr. Armstrong won a huge teaching prize and is working/sabbaticaling (word?) at Baylor this semester, so it was a visiting director) and I sat outside the rehearsal room. They sang one or two phrases from a Whitacre piece over and over and over and the two times students opened the door to come out to blow their noses, the sound was just ravishingly beautiful. "They even have good tenors," said S (he's a baritone/bass). That choir rehearses daily. We both heard the Chapel Choir rehearse with orchestra for an upcoming concert and they--and orchestra--were fantastic, too. And everyone was welcoming ("don't sit out there, come in!").</p>
<p>You're making me sad(der) about the letter D sent yesterday, turning down St Olaf's offer of admission! ;)</p>
<p>I'll put in a plug for the Lawrence University Conservatory vocal program as well. Great individual performance instruction and a great choral program. My daughter is a freshman in vocal performance but loves ensemble singing as well. She chose Lawrence over St. Olaf because of the interest in a double music major and LU's stronger emphasis on solo performance. Both schools are wonderful and integrate academics and music in a very serious way.</p>
<p>LU is performing Brahms' "A German Requiem" this weekend with 4 choirs and the symphony orchestra. I'm really sad I won't be able to make the trip. The press release for this performance may give you a flavor for their choral program. </p>
<p>Richard Bjella and Phillip Swan are excellent choral directors and highly regarded both inside and outside the institution.</p>
<p>St. Olaf is absolutely an important (and wonderful) school to consider if your son is interested in choral music but I would also suggest taking a look at Lawrence as well. Best of luck on your musical journey.</p>
<p>A girl who graduated from my daughter's school last year is at Lawrence and my understanding is that she is very happy there. Another student of my daughter's private voice teacher is going there in the fall.</p>
<p>Lawrence is definitely on his must-see list. Thanks for more reasons why.</p>
<p>If money is your biggest issue, then look at Indiana University. The actual university gives away money like it's its job (but be sure to turn in your application by Nov 1). The School of Music is also quite generous. The majority of my friends are here on scholarship. </p>
<p>Another school that I applied to that was generous with money was DePaul in Chicago. They awarded me 25,000 dollars which included two academic scholarships and one music scholarship. I heard that many music students at DePaul were also generously gifted.</p>
<p>Just a thought.</p>
<p>Money an issue here too so I love these suggestions. My concern with Indiana is the large graduate program there. We are searching for schools on the east coast that give away money like it's their job - I love that phrase. </p>
<p>Pan - are your friends in the undergrad program? How is the competition with the grad students? DD is vocal performance so I assume it varies among majors.</p>
<p>I'll second one of BassDad's recommendations,
SUNY Fredonia.</p>