[quote] Does applying for financial aid influence the admission decision?
No. *Admission decisions are made without the knowledge of financial aid requests. *After the Admission Committee has reached its decision, the Financial Aid Committee receives applications of accepted students and awards grants where possible.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>From the Canterbury web site:
[quote] Financial Aid applications will not affect admission decisions; they are considered separately.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Westminister:
[quote]
Applying for financial aid does not affect your child's prospects for admission to Westminster. *No student will be denied admission because of financial need. *
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Taft:
[quote]
The Taft School Financial Aid Committee offers aid to qualified students on the basis of the financial need of the family and the availability of funds. There are no merit-based awards at Taft. Financial aid decisions are made independent of the admissions decisions.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Of course, some of these schools go on to say that not all who qualify will be granted financial aid. I just wanted to point out that Exeter and Andover are not the first or only to be need-blind on admissions.</p>
<p>I think Exeter's focus, actually, is on the much more important (imo) second part of the equation. That is, nobody who is admitted will be precluded from matriculating due to financial need (in a nutshell).</p>
<p>Great. So you get accepted at a school and get zero aid. You can frame your acceptance letter, I suppose.</p>
<p>The most important point is that if you're accepted, you're going to get aid if you need it. And, ostensibly, it's all the aid that you require (according to some algorithm that hopefully but doesn't always account for your financial needs). That's what Exeter is pledging to do and what these schools aren't pledging to do (yet...though they may very well be committed to that end without putting it in writing).</p>
<p>As for Taft, the words they use (the ones quoted above) do not say that admissions decisions are need-blind (as I understand that term). Taft doesn't say that admissions decisions are made independent of financial aid decisions. They only promise the converse of that. And, if you think about it, financial aid decisions are only made for those who are accepted. So, they're made separate from admissions decision, but not independent of them. Basically, I have no idea what they're trying to say other than there are two separate processes. </p>
<p>I'll make some guesses as to what Taft is saying:</p>
<p>It's possible that they just failed to articulate what Cushing, Canterbury and Westminster each managed to state unambiguously. Or it's possible that they go forward and make financial aid decisions for all applicants, regardless of whether they're accepted (which would be stupid, but that's the way I have to interpret their statement if I took it literally). Or maybe (as I interpret it) they're just saying that they're not making FA awards based on the merit of the accepted students' applications.</p>
<p>I don't think there's one uniform, FDA-approved standard for "need-blind." There are 31 flavors of admission decisions and 57 varieties of financial aid decisions...and from that mix you can get all sorts of combinations of the above falling under what a school will claim to be "need-blind" -- with some schools matching up with what most of us intuit that to mean and other schools not dovetailing all the corners as we'd like to assume.</p>
<p>In our experience, the admission and financial aid were separate processes. Admission decisions were not based upon a family’s ability to pay. Once a student is admitted, the Financial Aid Committee determined whether the school will be able to meet the need of the family. Need is defined as the difference between a family’s discretionary resources and the cost of tuition.</p>
<p>Therefore, there were three possible outcomes for financial aid decisions:</p>
<ol>
<li> A student is accepted for admission and awarded financial aid up to the amount suggested by SSS</li>
<li> A student is accepted for admission and denied financial aid</li>
<li> A student is accepted for admission and waitlisted for financial aid</li>
</ol>
<p>I think a lot of schools have financial aid policies similar to the 3 listed above. My understanding of Exeter and St. Paul's is that if you are accepted, you will be awarded financial aid equal to the amount suggested by SSS. (And if I remember correctly, some posters in March said that they received more than what SSS even suggested.</p>
<ol>
<li>A student is accepted for admission and awarded less than the amount suggested by SSS.</li>
</ol>
<p>(I'd change #1 to read "at least the amount suggested by SSS.")</p>
<p>But, I think you're right. And, in truth, there are probably just 4 outcomes...and not the 31x57 possible approaches that I was suggesting. I still think that many schools do place FA applications in one box and non-FA applications in another box. And many of those schools will try to draw its desired cross-section of incoming students as much as possible from the full-pay box of applications so that the limited FA budget can go a long way to completing the desired class for the school. Frankly, unless the FA funding is unlimited (or well above the likely need), a school would be foolish to commingle the two boxes of application files. Think of the disasters that that would invite. Only a few schools -- if any -- can afford to not at least lift up the blindfold and peek. And the ones that can afford not to would still be foolish to not do so anyway, even if they do it less aggressively.</p>
<p>I think "up to the amount" implies that it can be "less than".</p>
<p>I agree with you there are probably two boxes (the FA and non-FA). Every application we filled out had the Financial Aid question right on the application. So, they had to know we were applying for FA, unless they were blind. </p>
<p>hehe...just a little pun this cold wintery morning....</p>
<p>You are right D'yer, SPS, Andover and Exeter and even DA (although not as stongly stating so) are promising if you are accepted, we will meet you full financial need. If my son gets accepted to every school he applies to and none offer any financial aid...guess what? He's going to the local public school. I was only pointing out that others are "need blind" because I got the impressions that some here thougth Exeter was the greatest thing since sliced bread because they changed how they viewed admissions and that they were the only ones to do so (not you). </p>
<p>Westminister, CLEARLY **goes on to say that there is not enough money for everyone, so FA is a competitve to the best candidates. Kimball-Union says that too. I'm sure it's the case at many (most?) schools - although most do not come right out and say so. Salisbury gives a "merit" scholarships: *"Merit Scholarships *- A limited number of merit awards are given to exceptional candidates as determined by the admissions committee. An admissions candidate’s full credentials are evaluated, with special consideration for his academic and leadership skills and potential."
How vague is that?</p>
<p>I do believe NMH is also "need-blind". Their website states that fa will not be available for all admitted students who may need it. Also, my own son was admitted without fa last year; this year he was told in advance that he had been admitted, and now the rest was up to the fa office. (Things worked out this year).
Also, while the NMH site states that they do not give merit awards, it does say that because the number of students seeking aid outweighs the amount of aid available, a students special talents, etc. are considered.</p>
<p>But what does need-blind mean, in a practical sense, if one is admitted only to one receives no aid or too little aid to enroll (signif below the SSS amount) ? Is admission alone important for f/a candidates?</p>
<p>D'yer Maker makes an excellent and well articulated point. Someone who is "in the process" for next fall asked a question that I could not answer. If the applications themselves are "needs blind' why have the question as to IF you are applying for financial aid on the application itself? Not blind on the application then right???</p>
<p>There is actually a 5th outcome:
A student is accepted and awarded FA in excess of the amount suggested by SSS.</p>
<p>This happened to the daughter of a friend (an upper-middle class family with$130K wage income). The student had 99's on her SSATs, excellent grades, and was a talented writer that presented stellar essays. She was accepted with no FA at a couple of the Ten Schools, but with 90% FA at one of them. This just proves that when they really want you, they'll make you an offer you can't refuse!</p>
<p>Yes, that is what I wrote in my post. I remember reading other people posts where they received more than what SSS had determined. (Maybe you posted this too!) </p>
<p>Good point about the box on the application about FA or not applying for FA. As Dyer maker said, they are separate decisions, but not independent--at least not completely.</p>
<p>Full pay students are still given a big advantage, especially at schools like Cushing or Canterbury, mentioned above, where they don't have the huge endowment. They work hard to recruit Full Pays. Full pays are what keep the school in business. So when they go to admissions committee, is full pay or FA considered? Absolutley. Maybe they won't reject the FA kid, they'll do what they can and see if he comes up with some other source of income. But for the C student who is full pay, they might be able to see potential in him.</p>
<p>Also, if you get to late spring or summer and the admissions committee is under pressure to fill beds, they will accept full pay kids that they may never have considered under the regular cycle. (this doesn't happen at Andover, etc) because they do have the luxury of a wait list)</p>
<p>In my opinion, there really is no "need blind" everyone is always looking at that.</p>
<p>Jennycraig,
We received about 50%+ FA every year when my D was in BS. We wound up paying $3-4K LESS than SSS recommended. My D was on the high end of candidates in the applicant pool and the school was not a very selective one.</p>
<p>College is unfortunately a different story and we are full pay! Darn FAFSA computation!</p>
<p>How do you find out your SSS recommended contribution? I went to the website (I did not originally order a family report). I have the PIN written down, but not the password, for some reason. Is the information available on the website, or do you have to order a report?</p>
<p>You have to order the report. And I think it's a trap. The report costs something like an extra $12. Knowing what it says doesn't help you do anything but brace yourself a little better when the decision is announced by your child's school of choice. So, they've got to figure that anyone who buys it is a spendthrift. And by ordering the report, they jack up your EFC by $2,550.00 (give or take) on the assumption that you're prone to such extravagances and can cut back even more than they first assume.</p>
<p>(Remember, all my posts are implicitly prefaced with the words, "I could be wrong, but...")</p>
<p>The trick to this is to fill one out in January of the year before your kid will be applying. That way you have a rough idea of the EFC it will spit out. This is useful in determining the amount you put down the next year under "how much can you afford to pay for this child's education?".</p>
<p>It also gives you a year to absorb the sticker shock should you find out you're a lot richer than you thought! :)</p>
<p>
[quote]
And by ordering the report, they jack up your EFC by $2,550.00 (give or take) on the assumption that you're prone to such extravagances and can cut back even more than they first assume
[/quote]
Ordering or not ordering the family report does not change your EFC at all.</p>
<p>Just for clarification on the need blind topic, a school that is truly need blind in their admission efforts will both admit anyone without regard to financial need AND will fund 100% of the demonstrated need of all those who were admitted. Andover and Exeter are poised to admit their classes without having to worry about who can pay the tuitions. Anyone who is admitted will have 100% of their demonstrated financial need met by the financial aid office. Most schools can not afford to take this approach. Instead, they either waitlist students who they can not afford to admit or they admit them but put them on a financial aid waiting list.</p>