<p>"A recent survey by the American Society for Quality revealed that more than 85% of students aren't considering careers in engineering and that parents didn't promote engineering as a viable career option to their children. The results also showed that some parents suggested to their daughters careers in acting over exploring math, sciences and other high-tech paths. That left many Network World readers scratching their heads and commenting online about the value of working in IT." More</a> science, less drama: IT pros defend engineering careers - Network World</p>
<p>Indeed, there are 5 separate forums listed in the College majors section of CC dedicated to the performing arts and 1 for engineering. Are CC parents also guilty of the above? Or is it just that not many people really know all that engineers do (e.g. not all mechanical engineers work with gears; some are involved with kelp beds and wave action, for example; others help design theme parks, and I don't just mean the thrill rides, but the decor in eating areas as well).</p>
<p>Perhaps what is needed are more programs like this:
"Explorathon" Program for 4th and 5th grade girls
The Battle Creek branch of the American Association of University Women will present its 14th annual “Explorathon: Looking Toward Tomorrow” program on Saturday, March 14 at Lakeview Middle School. This event encourages 4th and 5th grade girls in Calhoun County to think about pursuing careers as adults that they might not otherwise consider, especially careers based on science, technology, engineering, and math. While the students attend workshops focusing on 3 careers of their choice, the parent or other adult accompanying them attends 2 workshops designed for them. Pre-registration is required so that students and parents/guardians can choose their workshops in advance. The cost for this half-day event is $7.50 per student. Scholarships are available. Parents attend free.</p>
<p>“85% of students aren’t considering careers in engineering”</p>
<p>What % of students have the math skills to hack an engineering field of study? Calculus 2 is not for everyone, or more accurately is for hardly anyone.</p>
<p>Are any engineering schools suffering a lack of qualified students to fill available seats?</p>
<p>I actually thought ds would make a great engineer and encouraged that career path early, but he wants nothing to do with it. His comment: “I don’t want to sit behind a desk all day.”</p>
<p>"I think engineering needs a PR campaign. "
I agree, and perhaps from someone who isn’t necessarily and engineer but does know what some of the other options (not behind a desk all day) for engineering majors are. ;)</p>
<p>Which means that 15% <em>are</em> considering careers in engineering. I haven’t made a study of it, but 15% sounds about right to me. How many engineers do we need? A world where say 40% or 50% of students went into engineering sounds like a world where there are a lot of unemployed engineers.</p>
<p>Engineering majors require solid knowledge and deep understanding of math, be very comfortable with it as a language of science. They also need very solid understanding of physics (several years of it) and chemical eng. - chemistry. Vast majority of american HS graduates even from the best schools unfortunately do not possess the above skills. Few introductory semesters ususally result in dropping good number changing engineering major to something else with some more persistent kids using math and other tutoring. This is the fact about HS education that needs to be addressed ASAP.</p>
<p>^^^ TOTALLY agree. My dd as a freshman in engineering said even with a 5 on AP clac was woefully unprepared for the calc in college. Did one on one tutoring over winter break to redo what she was lacking in.
After that, I enrolled my younger kids in a local University enrichment math class taught by Russian Math physics professors(also critical of their own kids education lacking strong math curriculum so they formed these classes) These enrichment classes start at the age of 5/6 all the way up to college calc/physics level. My younger kids had to be placed down 2 years below their own curriculum in school to even do this enrichment. D is 14 in accelerated math in school, is taking 6th grade math in this program, they are doing Algebra 2/trig in the enrichment class as 11/12 year olds.</p>
<p>When you consider that entering your home-state public U engineering program is the logical first step for the vast majority of would-be engineers, it is easy to see why there aren’t any “engineering school” forums here. Those kids are filing one application and done (like happynephew did for his Ag. Engineering program at Iowa State U). Those who are looking past the state Us, are pretty clear about which nationally prestigious engineering programs exist and are already active here in the other forums. Theater, music, and design majors who need to put together portfolios and prepare for auditions are more likely to see a benefit from specialized forums, which explains the existence of those forums.</p>
<p>Absolutely agree that we need more programs like these. We need them to include 4th and 5th grade boys as well. Unless they have a parent in the field, boys don’t get exposed to the array of career options in engineering any more than girls do.</p>
<p>My brother who is an engineer- has been steering his 5th grade daughter to engineering- even though she isn’t strong in math ( because neither is he )</p>
<p>Looking at the article about the survey, they say there’s an expected shortage of 70,000 engineers by 2010, per the NSF and National Academy of Sciences. </p>
<p>This quote made me wonder about the methodology. </p>
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<p>The teens in the survey were ages 8 to 17. I’d bet that there are a lot of teen and tween girls who are saying that yes, their parents have encouraged them to be actresses, because that’s what those girls WANT to hear their parents saying to them. There’s nothing in the article about what the parents are actually saying to the kids, which might be quite different. If the pollster reached my 12 year old, who is bitten hard by the acting bug, I’m sure she’d be talking about wanting to be an actress and how her parents “encouraged” it, which in reality means that we are talking about how acting ability comes into play in a whole variety of careers like teaching, sales, and advocacy. At the same time, she’d probably forget all of the times her parents have pointed out things she’s done that indicate she’d be a good scientist.</p>
<p>While that Battle Creek program is nice, it is a waste of time as long as the US continues its poor math instruction. Since we are rapidly approaching spring and senior year course selection, be prepapred for all the questions on cc: ‘AP Stats or Calc?’ And, then read the answers from the cc bretheren…Stats wins hands down.</p>
<p>This is a huge fight in our household. Just because your child gets Bs in math doesn’t mean they can’t go into engineering.</p>
<p>I think this is why many kids aren’t encouraged to go into engineering. But really, how many people can make a living at PE, the only class you’re guaranteed to get an A in as long as you remember your uniform.</p>
<p>Part of the issue is the way it is taught. One goal in mind to pass the end of year exam. The outside math my d is doing, they spend the entire session doing one or two problems, all week trying to do two more as homework. In school they would do two chapters in the same amount of time, never learning it to mastery.</p>
<p>I agree with the uneven/weird math instruction and curriculum in K-12.
If the curriculum doesn’t make sense and if the teachers aren’t able/willing to supplement it, why should kids think math is anything but sucky?</p>
<p>My family has a " different learning style"- translated as we have disabilities that impact math learning.
Higher level math- is better than that which takes much memorization.
Older D majored in biology, which included calc and organic chem.
Her high school didn’t have AP, but she did take stats and precalc.
Since younger daughter started high school, two years behind in math, I was happy that she was able to finish at grade level, which was a year of precalc. She is also planning on majoring in biology, and also has difficulty with simple calculations, but is able to understand and perform higher functions.
I have tested * into* pre-calc, but I don’t know how, since on the placement test I was winging it. ( multiple choice questions) </p>
<p>We also have a good friend who has a Ph.d in stats & has a very good job- he loves stats- and would be the first to say that even if you have a spotty high school career in math, it doesn’t mean that a good prof/class, could inspire you to go that direction later.</p>
<p>Congrats, samiamy, on finding the right class/teacher “Russian Math physics professors”.
Russians teach math the way that it is not actually possible to forget it even if you are not using it in your profession. They teach UNDERSTANDING, not memorization, ability to think logically and knowing very few math fact derive whatever you need to solve the problem. Then physics and chemistry is taught for many years starting in 6th grade all thru HS and it all based on math. The level of science is linked to the level of math in grade.</p>
<p>Thanks. My youngest d is 8, struggled with math last year, the enrichment classes for her age group right now, are all logic based word problems. She is DELIGHTED with herself with her new found ability to stump her teacher in school as well as every person that enters our house she whips out her math brain puzzles.</p>
<p>You’ve got it. What I’ve seen in our schools is teaching the mechanics of math as opposed to understanding the underlying principles. And who is teaching this? Teachers whom themselves don’t understand the principles of mathematics, only the mechanics. And this is not just necessary to understand the principles at the high school level, but all the way down to basic arithmetic taught in elementary school. </p>
<p>We’d be better off requiring college students wanting to be teachers to take a class in basic mathematical principles (how do addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, fractions, numbering systems, etc work) instead of the “college math” (i.e. pre-calc) they are required to take today.</p>
<p>This is not rocket science here, folks.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, we as a people fear math and that fear comes out in how we approach math with our children. And it shouldn’t be. It shouldn’t be labled as difficult. You shouldn’t say “Just memorize your multiplication tables to get through 3rd grade.”</p>
<p>We are just afraid to face up to the fact that we are afraid of math. :(</p>
<p>Interesting discussion. I have a Russian friend who studied engineering. She came to the states as a teen without speaking any English. Her ds is something of a math prodigy. I wonder whether it has something with the way she was taught and then passed that on to him.</p>
<p>The truth is there is just a small percentage of the population that is really good at math and likes it. Notice there is always a shortage of people for jobs that require math. People who don’t like math, i.e., almost everybody, should do something other than engineering.</p>
<p>There is also just a small percentage of the population that has the gene for spatial visualization, the instinct that lets an architect or an engineer look at a set of drawings, understand the 3D assembly of components, and recognize errors in the drawings. This kind of person can always tell you which direction is north and the direction to the door he came in, no matter how many turns he has taken to his present location. This person likes to take things apart to understand how they work then put them back together. If you don’t have a clue what I am talking about, then by that alone it is pretty certain you don’t have the 3D gene, so don’t worry about it and enjoy business school.</p>
<p>A happy engineer or architect likes math and has the 3D gene. Although folks without the 3D gene can thrive as electrical engineers and tend in that direction anyway.</p>
<p>Trying to boost the engineering population with a PR program seems kind of like, well, something a PR person who doesn’t get it would think of.</p>
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