Morehead Scolars turning down Carolina to go elsewhere?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of North Carolina - Chapel Hill
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. . . would never denigrate the school from an academic point of view, only its admissions policies and decisions, which again this year was fraught with EGREGIOUS errors and ommissions that made the national news, including major network news.

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<p>friedokra: Could you elaborate here (ie, provide a link that supports this statement), as well as links (anything other than just your opinion) that would support some of your other statements in your latest post and in others here? I find your comments really bizarre.</p>

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<p>You find my statements bizarre? No, sir, I find your fixation on my opinions truly bizarre...particularly asking me to do your own homework. I am not going to play that game with you jack. If you were asleep at the wheel during the last admissions cycle with UNC, then that is your problem sir. They did in FACT extend the application deadline several weeks. They also sent out THOUSANDS of emails in error telling kids they had been admitted which they had to retract and send out apologies to EVERY applicant. We got BOTH of those emails. That was bizarre in my view.</p>

<p>I am done arguing with you. You have some notion that you are the great defender of Carolina's honor. Whatever. I simply stated that I have a problem with their admissions decisions, DESPITE the fact that I support a broad admissions policy and allowing kids with good stats, but not in the top 5 percent...the elite group, to have a crack at going to Carolina, if they choose.</p>

<p>If you dont like my point of view, fine. I could care less. But stating FACTS about Carolina's admission problems, extensions, errors, omissions, and overlooking kids with GREAT stats and admitting kids with big issues is not bizarre, but perhaps rubs you the wrong way. </p>

<p>I did not intend this to become an ad hominem discussion which you have obviously decided to do. I am sorry that you made that choice, because it was surely not my intent.</p>

<p>But I will end this thread. It apparently has ruffled some tarheel feathers.</p>

<p>Have a nice day.</p>

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<p>Okie dokie . You answered my questions. Thanks. ;)</p>

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<p>okay...I'm late to this thread, but I have to say I'm intrigued...especially since I worked for a few years in college admissions.</p>

<p>fried - other than the computer glitch with the 2700 letters, which were not official acceptance letters, I know of no other admissions issues. Mistakes do happen unfortunately, but I don't think it was indicative of bizarre or egregious admissions policies and procedures. Also, the year my d applied to colleges, most of the schools using the common app extended the deadline, including some Ivies, so I know this is not a big deal either. </p>

<p>And I can offset your 5 or 6 kids who chose Duke over UNC with the same who chose UNC over Duke...just on my d's floor alone.</p>

<p>So is this really and truly about what you consider problems in the UNC Admissions Office? Or is there something else bothering you?</p>

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<p>Also, friedokra, I want to be perfectly clear about a couple of things. Are you asserting that UNC-CH seeks to find out from high school counselors the political affiliation of applicants for the purpose of showing favoritism?? And are you asserting that John Edwards somehow influences the admissions process either directly or indirectly? I realize John Edwards attended UNC Law; but his own daughter attended Princeton and Harvard.</p>

<p>Since our family are big Bush donors and our d was admitted from very Republican Far Northwest Harris County, Texas...I find both ideas a bit of a stretch.</p>

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<p>I doubt there's anything more stressful than the senior year process of selecting colleges to apply to and then having some of them "de-select" you in return. We went through it ourselves several years back in our own family and it was not at all fun to have your child rejected for who knows what reasons. Protective mom armor immediately goes up and every admissions person who gives a thumbs down is obviously a know-nothing dirtbag. </p>

<p>I found myself far too involved, far too pushy, far too emotional, and far too offended about everything. FYI, my child also came from a "very competitive" public school, one that routinely gives the top 20+% of its graduating class (most years it's well over 100 kids) acceptances to UNC-CH. Some of those - mine included - applied RD by the way, no problem.</p>

<p>UNC has proven to be the perfect place for ours, as Fordham no doubt will be for Friedokra's. Best of luck to her in her college career.</p>

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<p>UNCMom: While you make a good point--and that's obviously the case here--to simply fabricate wild "facts" (out of thin air, presumably) concerning admissions policies, types of students who attend UNC (or other schools, like Vanderbilt), etc., and post them on a public board like this is really unnecessary, not to mention untrue (especially with admissions policies). When one reads fabrications and exaggerations posted like that, they really should be questioned and corrected. Just my 2 cents.</p>

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<p>I dont appreciate being called a liar, Jack. That is totally unnecessary and highly unprofessional. I did not fabricate or exaggerate one thing. They indeed sent out 2700 error laden letters and sent out thousands of emails (I think to all applicants) apologizing. My remarks about Vanderbilt were actually anecdotal remarks I heard from two Vanderbilt students. They gave me the phrase "girls with pearls." Vanderbilt is apparently trying to correct that former image, but still yet admits a high number of kids from wealthy and privileged backgrounds. Perhaps its the tuition, I dont really know.</p>

<p>My D's public school counselor told me to my face they have frequent contact with the admissions staff at UNC. The precise quote was "they know us very well." I am not saying that my D was waitlisted because of political persuasion, I am only saying it is predominantly a liberal institution and a majority of its students are liberal. How that compares with other schools depends on whom you compare them to.</p>

<p>I did not state ANYTHING that was "out of thin air" or "wild facts." I stated that they do have a process of admitting kids from all 100 counties and that necessarily involves a quota whether they admit it or not, and that they also spread around to as many high schools in a given county as they can, which also means they have a quota. You can disagree with my opinion and with my position, but dont call me a liar.</p>

<p>Admissions is a bizarre process at almost every college. It is highly emotional. For us frankly, the waitlist at UNC was a surprise, given her stats and extra curriculars, but not a surprise since she applied RD and it was her least favorite school to which she applied...which I already explained had NOTHING to do with the quality of education or its superb value, or its beautiful campus, or that literally hundreds of her friends are going there. It has to do with its size, and more specifically with what my D wants out of a college experience. </p>

<p>This thread started as a question, an honest question about people turning down the Morehead....in one case I prefer not to mention, came as a complete shock to me as that person and family seemed a natural fit for Carolina. Whatever. But it devolved into a spitting match about the admissions policies at Carolina, which is not immune from error or omission.</p>

<p>I can tell you that the most refreshing speech we heard from ANY admissions officer in the 15 or so schools we visited in the last 18 months came from UVa. There, the admissions team stated specifically what they are looking for, specifically what turns them off (including in essays) and then said, "we are not perfect. We make lots of mistakes every year and we apologize in advance if you are affected by one of our mistakes. We aim to do our best, but its an imperfect process, its under extreme duress for everyone. We hope you understand and best of luck to all of you." I found that honest appraisal very heartwarming and helpful. </p>

<p>I have been critical on this thread about Carolina's admissions. I am sorry if that offended anyone, but frankly it offends me that someone would imply that Carolina is above criticism and then even suggest that I have lied about facts that occured...and have occured in the past. Whether its common place or not at other schools I really dont know.</p>

<p>I am indeed highly supportive of my D and one of her best advocates. Carolina missed a good one, in my view. Though by our own admission, she would likely have declined it anyway for the above reasons.</p>

<p>If you got in, if your kid got in, if your kid goes there, or whatever...I congratulate you and wish you the best. </p>

<p>I know someone who got waitlisted at Dartmouth but got into Princeton a few years back and to this day he is still irritated at Dartmouth because that was his early decision school where he REALLY wanted to go.</p>

<p>We are not like that. My D holds no ill will towards Carolina. She just laughed it off and moved along. I am so "engaged" in the process because it was ME who made her apply to Carolina because of its superb value and outstanding academic reputation. I still believe that. But I feel responsible for what happened and that is why I am talking about it.</p>

<p>I am not going to slime people here, but trust me when I say that Carolina admitted some kids this year from my D's school that are questionable types. I will leave it at that. Perhaps Carolina didnt see it on paper. Whatever.</p>

<p>And now I am really done. Jack, you should be ashamed for calling me a liar. That is really offensive....and not what I would expect from a Carolina person. :-></p>

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<p>your excessive use of the word "whatever" is extremely irritating. i just wanted to point that out to you.</p>

<p>and, if unc is such a bad fit for your daughter, why don't you offer your opinions on HER school's forum? to me, your posts just sound like a bunch of rants from a bitter mother of a rejected kid :( </p>

<p>don't you have better things to do than waste your time arguing with people on an internet forum? i mean...what did you expect when you said those negative things on here. most of us our carolina fans, which is why we are here, so don't be surprised at the reactions you solicited (which was probably your intended purpose for even coming here i'll bet). </p>

<p>ok. bye. :)</p>

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<p>friedokra: Good grief. All of your statements are opinions and anecdotes. I'm not going to go back over your statements; just read your past posts. You report them as "facts," when they are nothing more than your own biased beliefs. The worst is to suggest that UNC (or any school, for that matter) makes their admissions decisions based on the political beliefs of its applicants, via phone conversations with high school counselors. To even imply this is simply utter nonsense. Even when links on the website answer specific questions, like how they consider legacy, as well as the suggestion of quotas, you persist. And what in heaven's name does John Edwards have to do with anything?</p>

<p>So if everyone in your family has moved on and is "delighted" with your daughter's college choice, including and especially your daughter, then why can't you? </p>

<p>I have no idea what your point is in posting these outlandish opinions, anecdotes, and stereotypes--and especially posting them as "facts." You daughter didn't want to apply, but you forced her to do so anyway; she got waitlisted, but she didn't care; she got accepted elsewhere; she's going to a school that's a better fit for her-- and apparently looking forward to it. So get over it and get a grip, for heaven's sake.</p>

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<p>fried - No one has said UNC-CH's admissions office is 'immune from error'. All we have said, contrary to your constant implication otherwise, is that NO admissions office is immune from error....and that the error made by UNC (emails) were without malicious intent and were not the result of some sort of failed admissions policy.</p>

<p>Btw, I don't buy the whole original post being an 'honest question' about Moreheads. It's pretty obvious you were making a dig at UNC for personal reasons. </p>

<p>I wouldn't dream of visiting the forums of schools that declined my kid to spread negative innuendo and gossip...and if I were that lame, I certainly wouldn't expect a warm welcome.</p>

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<p>jack and ldmom06- Well said!</p>

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<p>It is true that some Carolina admissions officers are on a first name basis with high school counsellors, especially in North Carolina. It makes sense. These people deal with each other year after year, how could they not know each other? It isn't even necessarily a negative thing. If a certain high school admissions counsellor has recommended admission and placement into honors for his or her students, and then said students have gone on to lead successful careers at Carolina and beyond, then why wouldn't a college admissions counsellor listen when a counsellor says, "You really have to take a look at this kid"?</p>

<p>I'm not saying here that this has anything to do with political persuasion. I haven't ever even heard an anecdote to do with that regarding Carolina before this thread.</p>

<p>I am saying this, though: plenty of high school counsellors get to know college admissions officers, and Carolina most certainly is not the only school known for paying attention to the high school counsellors. A private school in my city boasts the connections its counsellor has made with the Ivy League --- places like Exeter and Andover attract students for (among other reasons) their closeness with the Ivies and other top-ranked schools. I only feel that this is a negative thing because it could put affluent students at an advantage.</p>

<p>I'm okay with complaining about the letters sent out to the kids who weren't yet admitted or rejected. That really is an error that can't be appraised just because I'm sure there were plenty of kids who celebrated only to later find out that they were turned down from their dream school (or even just a school they'd hoped to be admitted to). That's really tough, yet I feel like it could have happened at any school. In fact, it has happened at other schools. My friend, who had never even applied to Converse, was surprised a few months ago when she received an email alerting her that she'd been accepted with a merit scholarship. It goes without saying that it was a screw up. :) These things happen.</p>

<p>The second complaint was about the extended deadline. I don't see how, again, this could be construed necessarily as negative. I don't know the motivations behind extending the deadline, but if they are what you suggest, that UNC was hoping for more applicants, then why is that so bad? It allowed a lot of my friends to get in the best application they could. Again, it wasn't malicious and actually ended up helping out a lot of kids who would later become Tar Heels. I'd even go as far to say that it made UNC look a little more understanding.</p>

<p>Finally... The weirdest thing I've read here was that UNC's admissions process didn't seem as personal as other places. I suppose I could see that, because UNC doesn't have interviews, but it was so odd for me to read because that to me was my favorite part of the process - Carolina was SO geared towards getting to know its applicants. At the information session and during every correspondence I had with admissions officers from UNC they stressed how much they wanted to get to know us. And, unlike a few other places I visited, they actually made me feel like they meant it by encouraging their applicants to send all material they deemed relevant into their offices. They were excited for me to send in a publication of mine, an extra principal recommendation, and some canned food records from Greensboro Urban Ministries. When I asked Stanford if they would be interested in getting any more information about a publication of mine (it was hard to determine what exactly it was about just from the title in my application, and I felt like I'd met a few kids who had fabricated the actual 'research experiences' they'd had hanging out in their parents offices) the admissions officer nearly laughed. I'm sure she'd heard the question before but it bothered me.</p>

<p>Carolina sent out emails wishing us luck, happy holidays, clarifying deadlines, to some even love letters. It was as personal experience as they could have created. Once we were admitted it was even crazier.</p>

<p>I definitely understand why one would be put off from UNC after their mistake with the letters, or their lack of interviews, but an extention of a deadline? I don't think that's reflective of a poor admissions office. UNC has its act together on admissions - just look at how early all the EA applicants found out their statuses! The sheer number of events they had to recruit applicants and accepted students was incredible to me. Of the eight schools I applied to, UNC and GWU were both very strong in recruitment and trying to make the experience personal, but in the end UNC was the best.</p>

<p>I am constantly in awe of my ability to ramble. That was my two bucks.</p>

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<p>Looking back at the people from Robertson finalist weekend, I know multiple people who got the Robertson and turned it down for Yale and Harvard, but also multiple people who did not receive the Robertson but who did get into and are attending Princeton and Stanford. Another person got into Yale but was waitlisted for the Robertson, so accepted Yale’s offer but then ended up getting the Robertson off the waitlist and turning down Yale after all.</p>

<p>Of the 50 students offered the Robertson this year, approximately 32 accepted it. I’m one of the ones who did accept it, but I respect the decisions of those who turned it down, particularly because I almost did. </p>

<p>In the end it’s a lot about finances and fit. But keep in mind that most of the people offered the Robertson, and indeed most of the people who were finalists, also had several other incredible options – including other scholarships.</p>

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<p>I have over the last four years posted numerous times about how difficult the decision was for us to have our S accept the Morehead and turn down Yale. I have also publicly and privately shared as best I can, how we now look back and wonder why we lost so much sleep and had so much angst during that time.</p>

<p>Hindsight being what it is allows a far different perspective on anything. We have a S who had achieved his dream....getting into Yale EA and was now faced with perhaps the biggest decision of his life.</p>

<p>My dad was the only one of his seven siblings to attend and graduate from college. His father came to the United States in 1903 with $10 dollars in his pocket, no knowledge of English and was here two years before sending for his new bride to join him. Here we were two generations later with a son accepted to arguably one of the finest institutions of higher learning in the world and having to decide IF he was going to accept their offer to attend. it was by far the biggest decision of our lives too.</p>

<p>As I have already stated, we lost many nights of sleep, talked to sooo many people, got sooo many opinions that it began to be a blur. My had S asked one of his mentors at the school he attended after he was accepted to Yale but before he won the Morehead, what he should do IF he won the Morehead. This person is a 20 plus year Master Teacher with an endowed chair at his school who had previously taught at Exeter. His response at the time was that it was "a no brainer...take the Morehead. At Yale you will be one of 1300 (albeit a very select 1300) but with the Morehead you will be one of about 40."</p>

<p>At the time we had a hard time trying to determine just how much of what he said was true and how much was rhetoric. </p>

<p>Now with hindsight I can honestly say that for him (and us) it was the right decision; not just because of the travel experiences which he certainly would NOT have had if he had gone to Yale...purely for financial reasons. In another post I was challenged about the travel being comparable to what a Yale or any other student might have. Certainly for many students at Yale or other schools travel abroad is a big part of their summers but with the Morehead it is focused and directed each year (outdoor leadership, service, travel study and enterprise/internship) and in the case of the last three years is eight to ten weeks each summer which is usually far longer than most travel abroad programs. It is fully funded and honestly only limited by the ability to find/create the program....it is in every sense a "create your own life, choose your own path" experience.</p>

<p>We visited UNC and met with the Foundation staff before he accepted. It was then that I had an epiphany of sorts and the decision became easier for me/us.</p>

<p>His mentor was right; he would be one of 43 at UNC with a staff of professionals there to oversee and guide him who were HIGHLY INVESTED in his future success whereas at Yale he would be one of 1300, not a legacy and certainly NOT in the socio-economic stratosphere that many of his classmates would be from.</p>

<p>I won't share all the details about the personal attention he has received but he faced the death of a HS classmate in the first week of college and another last year at the start of the second semester; a person he had spent time with four days earlier, before returning to school. His Morehead advisor called him, took him to lunch, spent time making sure he was okay, offered to fly him home for the services.....what more can I say? We're 1200 miles away but know he has someone five minutes away who really cares about him, not just his academic success but his health and well being.</p>

<p>If someone decides to turn down the Morehead for another opportunity that is their decision and we all wish them the best.</p>

<p>I mentioned in another post the true "value" of the Morehead...I honestly couldn't detail it in this small space. As a parent, to know that your child is getting a great education that is fully paid for, immensely enjoying their very broad undergrad experience, is happier than they have ever been in their lives, has travel opportunities that are virtually limitless, has an amazing group of friends, and has a group of mentors who REALLY care about them and their well being is, as the commercials, say "priceless."</p>

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<p>What an eloquent and inspiring post, EADad!</p>

<p>I would echo that by saying that our son is having a similar experience with the Morehead program. Hardly a week goes by that I don't think about how grateful I am for the opportunities it has provided to him. Right now, he is spending his summer living and working in the middle of a poor African village of 900 people as the only Westerner, and having some amazing experiences. I can't imagine that he would be doing anything like this without the funding and especially the personal encouragement from the Morehead Foundation to "live outside the box" and push yourself out of your comfort zone, both on the UNC campus and in the outside world.</p>

<p>As I said in an earlier post, a motivated student can find success and happiness on many different paths, and, certainly, a person should select the school which is the best "fit" for them. My son was originally leaning toward small schools in urban settings, but he has really enjoyed his time at Carolina so far. Every student's situation is different, but I don't see how anyone could ever go wrong by accepting the Morehead.</p>

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<p>what kind of stats and essays do Morehead scholars have? This question is for the scholars and parents of scholars. I am a senior thinking about being nominated for Morehead, but no one from my instate school has ever won, and even I or my parents think I don't have the stats for it.</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

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<p>I think that it's crazy to turn down the Morehead for HYPS if UNC is a better fit for you.</p>

<p>I think that it's crazy to turn down HYPS for the Morehead if HYPS is a better fit for you.</p>

<p>Then again, I'm still in high school and have never had to make a decision quite like this.</p>

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<p>The Morehead application itself requires significant time and thought. I am sure that it hasn't changed much in the four years since my son completed it but it has a number of short answer questions as well as several short and long essays with very specific topics.</p>

<p>Your question regarding stats is hard to answer. Successful Morehead candidates are generally near or at the top of their class academically but remember the four characteristics that the Morehead states they are looking for (in the order they list them) are Leadership, Scholarship, Moral Force of Character and Athletic Vigor. A winner this year from my sons's sister school was her class Valedictorian so you can't dismiss grades but again, grades alone won't cut it.</p>

<p>I don't think you can discount any of the four but how heavily they weigh each is known only to the foundation. To me it says they are looking for well rounded student leaders. John Motley Morehead endowed the scholarship to attract potential leaders to UNC who might not otherwise be considering UNC as their school of choice. Go to the Morehead website and download all the publications and literature. It gives a pretty clear picture of the characteristics of current Moreheads and may help you to determine whether you have any of the traits that they have.</p>

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<p>EADAD still there?
I'm ressurecting an old thread to ask a new question... Any words of advice for the parents as Morehead-Cain finalist weekend approaches? My kid is psyched and feels ready; for him it's an incredible opportunity, but a rejection won't be the end of the world. I'm the one with the anticipatory anxiety.</p>