<p>Students that qualify for significant need-aid may find that the private schools on their list are actually cheaper for them to attend than State U. That was the case for my nephew, who attends one of the privates on the Top Ten list.</p>
<p>Friends sent their son to Lehigh (it could have been any college..) for a year and a half during which the boy spent a substantial amount of time on academic probation and earned a total of about 12 credit hours. The school was a terrible match for him, although he was a capable student. 6 years later after CC and local universities he might be close to finishing his BS this Christmas. </p>
<p>The most expensive college is the college that your child shouldn't be at and does not succeed in...there are human costs and their are monetary costs associated with this.</p>
<p>FORGET THE MONEY! Choosing a higher education (ie college/CC/LAC/Apprenticeships) is like buying a car. There is list price and a real price. Both prices will vary on the supply and demand. The decision should be based on what you want out of the program-its VALUE. Going to an inexpensive school or a school that offers a lot of $$, and the kid not liking it, will eventually be a very expensive choice. On the otherhand, A program that is perhaps costly and a successful student will be a least cost program.</p>
<p>Friends have been checking out Seattle area prep schools for their kids and are shcked to realize if you don't want to go religous, it is about $20K a year ( inc books).
Wondering how we did it for oldest but of course we got mucho finaid, but also wondering how she was admitted considering schools accept 1 out of 7.
So glad youngest is at a terrific public school, much relief.
Wanted to say something about aid though, while we are clinging with our fingernails to the middleclass, my sisters family is higher income and the dad has several graduate degrees yet both of their daughters attend Colgate , one with full aid ( grant and scholarships) and one with a loan added to grant- no work study.
Colleges may be spending more than tuition to educate students, but they still have lots of aid available.</p>
<p>I was speaking with some admissions officers that I personally know about this. The high cost of education at some schools isn't due to the fact that it costs them more to educate a child. Many schools play a form of "robin hood" to boost student quality. Carnegie Mellon is reknown for this. They provide a lot of scholarship money for need based quality students and merit students that they wish to attract. In a sense, if you are paying "full boat," you are subsidizing those that are not!</p>
<p>Some colleges try to hide this fact by telling you that scholarships come from endowments ( which is partly true) and that salaries and benefits make up the largest part of the their budget,which is also true. However, both of these facts don't negate the truth of the "Robin Hood" syndrome applicable to many colleges.</p>
<p>when my daughter was in prep school they also said that it cost more than tuition but that scholarships came from a dedicated fund not other families subsidizing the students who couldn't pay.
I have not actually been part of the budget making process in private schools as I have in public, but as the parent of a daughter who has received generous scholarships both for K-12 and for college, I feel uncomfortable with the idea that other families may be subsizing her without their informed consent.</p>
<p>It is interesting that you mention Carnegie Mellon as having good finaid, my niece actually had CM as by far her first choice, she didnt even want to apply to Colgate, but CM didn't offer as much money as Colgate did, and her parents decided for her.</p>
<p>Actually, Carnegie Mellon is an interesting case. They give out a fair amount of 'merit based" aid for top students. We had two students here who had full rides to Carnegie Mellon. Both were top students with over 1500 on SATs, national merit scholars etc. Both had parents that weren't poor either!</p>
<p>I remember when I first got on the board of my children's private school and learned how much of my tuition dollar was going directly into the scholarship fund. I would have much rather paid lower tuition and made a tax deductible contribution to the fund.</p>
<p>There may be other "hidden" costs at some schools. Some have lab fees, for example. And in art programs and art schools, the costs of tools, supplies, and materials can easily add a few hundred dollars per month.</p>
<p>It seems only kosher to allow families to choose whether to subsidize other students, I suppose the school could make it clear if they have to, that , that is what tuition goes for , but at least be upfront about it.
My younger daughters former (public) school has several trips that they take, Ashland for a week, Maui for 8 days, NYC/DC for two weeks among them. Although much fundraising is done, several students can't go because of cost. I wasn't aware until I was on the board, that not only do teachers receive their pay during this time, but their total trip is subsidized by the students. I am all for paying the teacher to participate, but considering that some of the teachers that opt to go are there in name only and don't chaperone, I think it is only fair for parents to know that part of the cost is going toward teachers, and to be able to make suggestions regarding the chaperones and the schedule.( I wonder who got all those frequent flier miles? It wasn't any of the parents!)</p>
<p>I still say that colleges could give an estimate of what they spend per year to educate a student. I know my children's private high school is able to do that based on their operating budget minus athletic program expenses. I have yet to find a college web site that actually shares operating budget information broken down by academics, facilities maintenance, etc. Would be very interesting to see.</p>
<p>Emeraldkity4 notes, "It seems only kosher to allow families to choose whether to subsidize other students, I suppose the school could make it clear if they have to, that , that is what tuition goes for , but at least be upfront about it."</p>
<p>LOL, How many people would voluntarily choose to pay an extra $10,000 to subsidize other students? I would place a safe bet that it wouldn't be too many! If colleges gave the statistics as to what part of the tuition goes to support other students, many parents would be up in arms! These facts will never be released.</p>
<p>Mackinaw notes that there are some "hidden" costs at some schools such as lab fees and art supplies. This may be partially true, but in many cases, these fees are extra charges to the students. For example, every art school and art program that I know of charges the kids extra for art supplies and most actually have the kids buy them in advance!</p>
<p>Again, college will tell you this,but in a number of cases it is a subterfuge to covering up that full paying tuition parents are subsidizing those that aren't.</p>
<p>Just a comment on fees and other costs. Dickinson's bill is very simple and straightforward: Tuition, Room, Board, Student Activities Fee. So far, we have not been asked for any other fees. I'll give them that. The University of Maryland, on the other hand, has a list of fees a mile long. Some are mandatory, some are not. This distinction is important to students using the Prepaid College Trust as Mandatory fees are covered. And for purposes of financial aid, schools estimate books & supplies, and personal expenses. It was interesting to see the variations in the Personal Expenses line. At the time, I suspected that some gaming was going on there also. I wondered if some public schools estimated personal expenses higher in order to raises the Total Cost of Attendance and therefore qualify more students for Federal Financial Aid.</p>
<p>Actually several parents at my daughters previous ( public)school give extra to subsidize students. ( for the snowsport program for instance, everyone who asked for scholarships recieved one, and some students had equipment, lessons, apparel and transportation, totally subsidized)
Diversity is a value for them, and one reason why their kids weren't in private schools
Private schools can pick and choose who they accept, and the secular schools in our area have about a 14% admit rate, I would wager that if the student didn't qualify for finaid, that the families may very well agree to some of their money going for scholarships, if their child was admitted.
It apparently is going for scholarships anyway, but if it is part of costs, then it isn't deductible.</p>
<p>tokenadult...i absolutely agree with you. It would be a real shame if students looking at this list decided not to apply to one of these schools because of their current financial situation. The vast majority, if not all of these schools enroll many students on need and/or merit based aid, and some of these students are paying nothing for their education. Granted this is not the norm, but you never know what fin aid package you'll get until you apply.</p>
<p>Carolyn wrote: "I still say that colleges could give an estimate of what they spend per year to educate a student."</p>
<p>I think they could give an estimate but you have to keep in mind that it might be closer to a WFG than a real estimate. Here are some of reasons why.</p>
<p>(1) Although any college or university can divide its budget into functional areas, including research, teaching, administration, building maintenance and upkeep, athletics, advising and counseling, etc., many budget expenditures are not single-purpose. Labs can be used for instruction and research. Classrooms can be used for undergrad and graduate treaching. Libraries support both research and instruction. Faculty salaries cover their roles as teachers, researchers, and administrators. The internet backbone and technical support services all functions at a university, not just instruction.</p>
<p>(2) The amount spent per student per year varies enormously depending on the student's major. Educating an engineer or bench scientist costs a great deal more than educating the typical English major -- because of higher salaries of engineering and science faculty and the substantial costs of equipment and laboratories. For the typical English Dept. teacher, the most expensive piece of equipment for that faculty member is probably her PC; the second most expensive would be her chair.</p>
<p>I have seen figures that imply at least a 2 to 1 ratio of cost to educate a typical science or engineering major compared to a typical humanities or social science major. In fact, the "student credit hours" accumulated ("tuition revenue earned") by faculty in the latter two areas heavily "subsidize" the costs of the engineering and science students, whose tuition is paying far less of the cost of their education than is the tuition of the arts, humanities, and social science students.</p>
<p>Yet at most universities the in-state undergrads are paying a single fee per credit or else a block tuition, regardless of their major. Special fees for labs and the like don't come remotely close to paying for the differential costs of educating the lab science students.</p>
<p>So sure, if you want an "estimate," you might get one. But don't take it too seriously, and don't rely on being able to comparison shop using such a number.</p>
<p>Good point, mackinaw. It's kind of like allocating overhead in a business - between products, between departments, etc. There's often a lot of infighting and eventually some simplistic formula is devised that may not be close to reality but provides a basis for spreading the cost.</p>
<p>To be sure, in a university environment those formulas would be devised to show how expensive it is to educate an undergrad and what a great deal they are getting even at $40K. ;)</p>
<p>Reidm,
Where did your nephew end up?</p>
<p>"I still say that colleges could give an estimate of what they spend per year to educate a student. I know my children's private high school is able to do that based on their operating budget minus athletic program expenses. I have yet to find a college web site that actually shares operating budget information broken down by academics, facilities maintenance, etc. Would be very interesting to see."</p>
<p>Williams does, and I think it is still on their website. No student's family subsidizes another. On the contrary, every student begins with an $88k scholarship spread over four years. </p>
<p>I'm happy to provide it - it is one of the few places in my life that I can choose freely to subsidize rich people (and I don't mind.)</p>
<p>id have to imagine that NYU is a lot more expensive in general since its in the city. everythings more expensive here. what's not in tuition is made up for in living expenses and other non-essentials that everyone gets into. do people at NYU rent appartments or are most in dorms?</p>