Most overrated/underrated school on the USNWR?

College Search & Selection
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<p>I go to a top-15 school, and I visited a friend at a top-35 school in the south this weekend. I met some of his friends, and the consensus among them was that mine is an "overrated" school by USNWR and other national publications. TBH I was pretty drunk by then, so I couldn't get a real answer about why they felt that way, but it just struck me that this perception existed. Certainly those of us at my school don't feel our university is overrated by any stretch. </p>

<p>There are two schools that, for whatever reason, I just feel are extraordinarily overrated. First, the University of Chicago. I feel that the U of C trades in name recognition and past success more than peer schools like Northwestern, Duke, and Rice. I feel that the U of C's high acceptance rate compared to its peers is evidence that most prospective students don't want a school on the South Side of Chicago "where fun goes to die." This leads to a student body that is disengaged, overworked, and undercultured. </p>

<p>The other school I find overrated by USNWR is Washington University in St Louis. We all know about WashU's admissions hijinks; the school makes middling HS students keenly aware of its scholarship opportunities and later rejecting them altogether. This gives WashU an artificially low acceptance rate, making the school seem more selective than it would otherwise. </p>

<p>Some other schools that come to mind when I think "overrated" are Tufts, Emory, Vanderbilt, NYU, and Lehigh, among others.</p>

<p>There are a lot of schools I find underrated by USNWR, but a couple that most surprise me are:</p>

<p>-Georgetown. Personally I think it's a better school than CMU, Emory, or Vanderbilt, and should be ranked as such. </p>

<p>-Brown. Does anyone objectively consider Brown a worse school than Hopkins or WashU? I thought not.</p>

<p>Some other schools that come to mind when I think "underrated" are Cal-Berkeley, Notre Dame, BC, Fordham, Baylor, Northeastern, and Stony Brook, among others. </p>

<p>*Not encouraging you guys to take potshots at anyone's school, but be honest. What do you guys think is the school most overrated by USNWR? What about the most underrated? *</p>

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<p>
[quote]
There are two schools that, for whatever reason, I just feel are extraordinarily overrated. First, the University of Chicago. I feel that the U of C trades in name recognition and past success more than peer schools like Northwestern, Duke, and Rice. I feel that the U of C's high acceptance rate compared to its peers is evidence that most prospective students don't want a school on the South Side of Chicago "where fun goes to die." This leads to a student body that is disengaged, overworked, and undercultured.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Let me address the latter issue first. Chicago students are undercultured? Have you visited the University of Chicago? Admittedly, most students here are a bit disengaged from society and overworked, but why should that be evidence that Chicago is overrated? If anything, it should be evidence that we deserve our spot at #8. The fact is, and I think that you'll at least partially agree with me, that most Ivy League schools nowadays are academically pathetic -- it doesn't take much hard work to graduate from them, and after you matriculate, you just ride on the prestige of your school to get you whatever job you want. Intelligence is neither sought-after nor necessary at some Ivies, and it's similar at many other schools you're comparing Chicago to. </p>

<p>
[quote]
I feel that the U of C's high acceptance rate compared to its peers is evidence that most prospective students don't want a school on the South Side of Chicago "where fun goes to die."

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes, it serves as evidence as such, and I see no problem with that. Students are uninterested in the University of Chicago because it is a lot of work. They want to go somewhere else, like Northwestern, where you can get drunk 4 nights a week and still maintain a 3.5 GPA. This is just further evidence that Chicago has better academics than our peer schools: people are actually afraid to apply. But if you're so seriously opposed to ranking the 'hardcore academic' universities highly, maybe you should take the same argument with Caltech.</p>

<p>
[quote]
irst, the University of Chicago. I feel that the U of C trades in name recognition and past success more than peer schools like Northwestern, Duke, and Rice.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Past name recognition? Are you kidding me? The only real name recognition Chicago has ever had was with graduate school, and we're still a top 10 graduate school by anyone's standard. If you're referring to the prestige of our undergrad, just ask the teachers here. They'll tell you that the incoming classes are so much smarter than the ones twenty years ago. </p>

<p>Chicago is actually underrated. It is more respected than some of the schools ahead of it on the list, especially for graduate admission. I don't think that anyone would argue that the average student at Chicago has been brought through more rigor than ANY school on the top 20 list, save possibly Columbia, Caltech, and MIT. Most people who say that Chicago is overrated are people who are obsessed with prestige and care nothing for academics.</p>

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<p>I don't mean for this to be a debate about the schools I posted, but a forum for open discussion. That said, I am bored at work and thus compelled to respond.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Let me address the latter issue first. Chicago students are undercultured? Have you visited the University of Chicago?

[/quote]
Yes, I have. Several times. I have friends who attend.

[quote]
Admittedly, most students here are a bit disengaged from society and overworked, but why should that be evidence that Chicago is overrated?

[/quote]
A great university should engage its students in their society and culture. It should inspire them to change the unjust, to protest the unfair. It should teach them to observe, understand, and participate in the world around them, not only to memorize and regurgitate words on a page or notes in a lecture hall. This is where I see Chicago failing its students. Do you disagree? If so, I ask you: how much of that famed workload could be called "busy work"? How many papers do you actually need to write about one book before you've learned all there is to learn about it and your critical thinking skills have reached their potential?

[quote]
If anything, it should be evidence that we deserve our spot at #8. The fact is, and I think that you'll at least partially agree with me, that most Ivy League schools nowadays are academically pathetic -- it doesn't take much hard work to graduate from them, and after you matriculate, you just ride on the prestige of your school to get you whatever job you want. Intelligence is neither sought-after nor necessary at some Ivies, and it's similar at many other schools you're comparing Chicago to.</p>

<p>Yes, it serves as evidence as such, and I see no problem with that. Students are uninterested in the University of Chicago because it is a lot of work. They want to go somewhere else, like Northwestern, where you can get drunk 4 nights a week and still maintain a 3.5 GPA. This is just further evidence that Chicago has better academics than our peer schools: people are actually afraid to apply. But if you're so seriously opposed to ranking the 'hardcore academic' universities highly, maybe you should take the same argument with Caltech.

[/quote]
Of course Chicago is an academically rigorous school, one of the most rigorous in the country. You're only fooling yourself, however, if you believe an Ivy education is "pathetic" or that the average U of C student could get a 3.5 in their same major at Northwestern and get drunk four nights per week. This is simply false. Entirely untrue. I don't know why some Chicago students feel the need to brag about their hard work and take pride in the fact that no one has fun at their school. I mean, after all, Tucker</a> Max did manage to graduate from the U of C.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Past name recognition? Are you kidding me? The only real name recognition Chicago has ever had was with graduate school, and we're still a top 10 graduate school by anyone's standard. If you're referring to the prestige of our undergrad, just ask the teachers here. They'll tell you that the incoming classes are so much smarter than the ones twenty years ago.

[/quote]
Like New York University, the University of Chicago benefits from the immediate name recognition of its city, a great city, a world city, but one in which U of C lacks a true downtown presence. OTOH, the layman has no idea where Northwestern or Rice is located. I think Chicago benefits from its exponentially famous physics and economics programs, both of which have seen some decline from their respective heydays. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Chicago is actually underrated.

[/quote]
If so, there must be at least one school ahead of UChicago that should be behind it. I entreat you to name one.</p>

<p>Obviously this all depends on what the USNWR is designed to measure. If it's academic rigor that's one thing, but to label a particular university "the best" overall is quite another.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Yes, it serves as evidence as such, and I see no problem with that. Students are uninterested in the University of Chicago because it is a lot of work. They want to go somewhere else, like Northwestern, where you can get drunk 4 nights a week and still maintain a 3.5 GPA.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I think that's unfair to Northwestern; NU may be Party Central compared to U Chicago, but compared to most other colleges in the country it's still Nerd Central. And I don't see where lashing out at NU really helps your argument.</p>

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<p>]quote] University of Chicago benefits from the immediate name recognition of its city, a great city, a world city, but one in which U of C lacks a true downtown presence. OTOH, the layman has no idea where Northwestern or Rice is located.

[/quote]

and

[quote]
Some other schools that come to mind when I think "underrated" are Cal-Berkeley, Notre Dame, BC, Fordham, Baylor, Northeastern, and Stony Brook, among others.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Gradatgrad, both of these comments solidify that you have an East Coast perspective on the world. People out here most assuredly know where Northwestern is located, and wouldn't know Fordham or Stony Brook if they tripped over them. That, plus your statements about WashU (WashU has been a terrific school for many, many years -- it's just that many people can't find Missouri on a map so they act as though it's a newcomer to higher education).
Which gets to the whole point that "underrated" and "overrated" are silly concepts because ratings and prestige are ALWAYS -- once you get beyond HYPS -- regional in nature. You might think Stony Brook is underrated; most people outside NY wouldn't know what the hell it was if they tripped over it. People in California have some elaborate ranking system of all the UC's; and most people outside California don't know or care beyond Berkeley and UCLA. It's all regional. Therefore, overrated vs underrated is always going to be a function of "what my region thinks" vs "what your region thinks" and it's a no-win discussion.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
go to a top-15 school, and I visited a friend at a top-35 school in the south this weekend. I met some of his friends, and the consensus among them was that mine is an "overrated" school by USNWR and other national publications. TBH I was pretty drunk by then

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Any college freshmen who are engaging in discussions of "your school is overrated" / "no, it's not" are, themselves, highly overrated.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I think that's unfair to Northwestern; NU may be Party Central compared to U Chicago, but compared to most other colleges in the country it's still Nerd Central. And I don't see where lashing out at NU really helps your argument.

[/quote]

What school isn't "Party Central" compared to U of C? I think the rest of the Big Ten would have something to say about anyone labelling Northwestern a "party school." That's just sort of laughable.
[quote]
Gradatgrad, both of these comments solidify that you have an East Coast perspective on the world. People out here most assuredly know where Northwestern is located, and wouldn't know Fordham or Stony Brook if they tripped over them.

[/quote]
You've really confounded my statements here. All I'm saying is that it's pretty obvious that more people in the USA know where the University of Chicago is located than know where Northwestern University or Rice University are located, and that this might play a role in perceived prestige. Duh.<br>

[quote]
Therefore, overrated vs underrated is always going to be a function of "what my region thinks" vs "what your region thinks" and it's a no-win discussion.

[/quote]
Disagree. There has to be a majority opinion, when you take all regions into account. I'm just interested to hear some differing perspectives. Obviously I know more about schools that friends attend. Maybe someone in California thinks UC-Riverside is underrated; I'd have no idea, but I'm interested to find out.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Any college freshmen who are engaging in discussions of "your school is overrated" / "no, it's not" are, themselves, highly overrated.

[/quote]

A) I'm not a freshman
B) If you must know, we began the discussion by comparing our respective football teams
C) You are being quite presumptuous</p>

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<p>well, the first post actually on topic</p>

<p>Overrated:
Upenn
Duke</p>

<p>Underrated:
Cornell
UC Berkeley
Tufts</p>

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<p>


</p>

<p>Despite the fact that Chicago students aren't the most intelligent (far from it according to SAT stats), they still have very high graduation rate. So maybe it isn't really <em>that</em> much harder?</p>

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<p>collegebound2009, you've intrigued me. Tufts, underrated? Why and how?</p>

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<p>overrated:
john's hopkins
wash u in st.louis
harvard (its def. not the best overall school in the nation)</p>

<p>underrated
northwestern
cornell
oregon state</p>

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<p>ok sorry but vasudevank does NOT kniw what he is talking about. Johns Hopkins is not overrated in anyway! People who say that obviously are only aware of its magnificent Pre med and not other fabulous programs .</p>

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<p>If you guys can, try to provide some logic with your choices instead of just making a list.</p>

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<p>How could Northwestern being underrated. You actually think its better than number 12? Its great school and deserves to be where it is, not any higher. </p>

<p>
[quote]
here are a lot of schools I find underrated by USNWR, but a couple that most surprise me are:</p>

<p>-Georgetown. Personally I think it's a better school than CMU, Emory, or Vanderbilt, and should be ranked as such.</p>

<p>-Brown. Does anyone objectively consider Brown a worse school than Hopkins or WashU? I thought not.

[/quote]

Georgetown is underrated, I also think it is better than Emoy and Vanderbilt and perhaps Rice. Brown is absolutely better than Hopkins and Wash U and Northwestern, so is underrated. I agree that Chicago is overrated, its student body is just not as good a match for its quality academics and thus I feel it is a top 15, not top 10 school. I feel that Wash U is peer schools of Hopkins, Cornell, and Northwestern...so wherever they are (around 15) Wash U deserves to be, so I don't believe it is THAT overrated at all. Also Penn and Duke are almost always considered top 10 schools along with Columbia, and fully deserve to be there. So
Overrated
Chicago
Underrated
Georgetown
Brown</p>

15

<p>
[quote]
Yes, it serves as evidence as such, and I see no problem with that. Students are uninterested in the University of Chicago because it is a lot of work. They want to go somewhere else, like Northwestern, where you can get drunk 4 nights a week and still maintain a 3.5 GPA. This is just further evidence that Chicago has better academics than our peer schools: people are actually afraid to apply. But if you're so seriously opposed to ranking the 'hardcore academic' universities highly, maybe you should take the same argument with Caltech.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Oh please. You think that students at Northwestern have such an "easy" time getting good grades? I HIGHLY doubt we can go party 4x a week and STILL perform well. Just because many students at UChicago tend to lack a social life doesn't mean people at NU need to, in order to show how "difficult" their coursework is.</p>

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<p>phuriku, there is really no need for Chicago to defend itself because someone thinks it's overrated. It's a legitimate top 10 institution.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
You've really confounded my statements here. All I'm saying is that it's pretty obvious that more people in the USA know where the University of Chicago is located than know where Northwestern University or Rice University are located, and that this might play a role in perceived prestige. Duh.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>They might know if they were asked "Where is the U of Chicago" -- they'd be able to guess Chicago -- but that doesn't mean that they knew of it upfront. If you asked me where the U of Dallas is, I can guess Dallas but that doesn't make it more prestigious. If you asked me where Cleveland State U is, I can guess Cleveland, but that doesn't make it more prestigious. </p>

<p>Anyway, prestige among whom? The average Joe Schmoe on the street? Or people who are knowledgeable about colleges and education? Two very, very different markers.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Disagree. There has to be a majority opinion, when you take all regions into account. I'm just interested to hear some differing perspectives. Obviously I know more about schools that friends attend. Maybe someone in California thinks UC-Riverside is underrated; I'd have no idea, but I'm interested to find out.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>No, there doesn't. For example, the Northeasterner thinks that Fordham is underrated. The Midwesterner thinks that Purdue is underrated. The Californian thinks that UC-Riverside is underrated. Now what? How is there majority opinion?</p>

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<p>I think WUSTL, Emory, and (mayyyybbbbeee Tufts and Rice) are "overrated," though as I will explain later, I believe that's a bad term to use! I think that while Harvard, Princeton, Yale, etc. are obviously amazing schools, it's hard to place them <em>that</em> much higher than, say, Notre Dame, UCB, Michigan, etc. As in, I don't think students graduating from Harvard will necessarily come out with that great a difference in education as some of the top public universities, or other privates for that matter. But they're private schools, and in this ranking private schools have an overwhelming advantage (and perhaps bias??) over public universities (eg Alumni giving rate).</p>

<p>I did find it interesting that in the high school counselors rankings, that is schools they found most popular and beneficial to their current and past students, Berkeley was in the top-10. UVA was in the top-20, and UNC-CH was #22. This is either equal to, or above, Penn, Dartmouth, Duke, Notre Dame, WUSTL, and UChigago, among others. It was also among the tops in the nation with peer-assessment score. Likewise, UCLA and UC Berkeley were ranked 1 and 2, respectively, for most economic diversity. Michigan was 8th. Too bad their alums don't donate wings of science labs to the school, and too bad their admissions office doesn't only admit people with a 2200+, or they might be challenging HYPS!</p>

<p>I have a high level of respect for the Ivy League, and virtually all universities in the top-30 USNWR rankings. There are people at every school who likely were admitted to, but passed up, higher ranked universities. It is ignorant to judge a university based on these rankings, because, as I mentioned above, each school has its strengths and weaknesses. If one is looking for diversity, perhaps UCLA or Berkeley would be a better fit than, say, Notre Dame. But if one enjoys the close-knit alumni base, than they'd best look at ND, HYPS, etc. </p>

<p>It's hard to say which schools are "overrated" or "overrated," because ultimately the student, not USNWR, will determine whether their educational experience was beneficial or not.</p>

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<p>Me: "I think that's unfair to Northwestern; NU may be Party Central compared to U Chicago, but compared to most other colleges in the country it's still Nerd Central. And I don't see where lashing out at NU really helps your argument. " </p>

<p>Gradatgrad: "What school isn't "Party Central" compared to U of C? I think the rest of the Big Ten would have something to say about anyone labelling Northwestern a "party school." That's just sort of laughable."</p>

<p>Well, right, gradatgrad, I'm agreeing with you. NU isn't remotedly a party school.</p>