Most (public) college students don't graduate in four years

<p>here’s another thing–transfers are not counted in any school’s graduation statistics. My D and I both graduated in four years, but we both transferred. She from a state school to a private, me the opposite. But none of those schools get to count us.</p>

<p>My S, interestingly, graduated from an Ivy ten years after he started there. He’s not counted either. I guess that makes sense. I’m just glad they took him back even though they could no longer count him in the graduation rate stats.</p>

<p>And my H double majored so took five years to graduate.</p>

<p>In effect, not one of us is counted in any 4 year graduation rate. lol.</p>

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<p>Huh? If he started as frosh and graduated 10 years later, he would be counted as someone who did not graduate in the 4-, 5-, and 6-year graduation rates, regardless of whether he only needed 8 semesters or 12 quarters of school.</p>

<p>Support also makes a big difference accross similarly-selective colleges. That’s why looking into hours for the Writing Center, Math Support Center, whether it’s drop-in or by appointment, the conditions to get a tutor in a variety of subjects, whether students have a personal adviser or whether they’re supposed to figure it out online or meet with a random person who doesn’t know them, whether professors have office hours and how often, or whether they’re held by the class TAs or by both… all matter.</p>

<p>I second blossom’s post #10, since those students are the ones I see far more than the noble mother struggling to finish her nursing degree. Many suburban kids are undisciplined and directionless, and thus they end up floundering at the regional state schools and community colleges, often as a plan B or C after a more ambitious option did not work out. That is a concern for me only as far as the quality of the cohort at non-elite schools should I wish to consider them for my D, but not a true personal concern since it’s up to me to instill work ethic and goal-setting skills in my children so they DO graduate in a timely fashion.</p>

<p>What does bother me is hearing that many of our state schools are over-enrolled, so students can’t always get into the courses they need in sequence and thus fail to graduate in 4 years. Then, through no fault of their own, they end up in financial hardship. </p>

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<p>That is a common complaint, but how common is it really at colleges which are not open admission? Is the student “unable to get into the class”, or is s/he “unable to get into the class other than the 8am section”?</p>

<p>GFG- unless your D is hell bent on Computer Science (and I think you’ve mentioned Classics before ) you should not worry about the over-enrollment. A kid who is organized and understands that when the Psych 1 section she wants is fully booked at the 2 pm time slot but has seats available at 9 am is not going to have a problem graduating in 4 years. I have heard dozens of these sob stories from parents enabling their kids sloppy time management- and although they vilify the college, the professors, the administration, and even the dorm RA, at the end of the day, being shut out of required course is always a tertiary factor (if at all).</p>

<p>A kid who starts out majoring in early childhood education and switches to bio- likely hard to graduate in four years. A kid who starts out as “pre med” but doesn’t have a strong math background (even if the kid adores bio)- may be hard to graduate in four years.</p>

<p>A kid on an Arts and Sciences track at a big U who is willing to take a class on Friday or make it to a 9 am lecture on a Monday? Not a problem with a little organization.</p>

<p>@ucbalumnus‌ extremely common, especially at less selective universities like the Cal States. Do I have to direct you ot the dozens of LA Times articles about students who were regularly shut out of necessary courses or couldn’t get them because CSUN and others like it capped students to only 15 credits a semester, meaning that now they must decide between taking the gen ed history course and general accounting principles, which they were shut out of last semester (to be fair Prop 30 helped alleviate this problem)? Given that the Cal States are better funded than a huge number of directional state schools, I’d imagine the same is true in other states. </p>

<p>CSUN’s unit limit per semester is 16 units, according to <a href=“http://www.csun.edu/admissions-records/enrollment-requirements”>http://www.csun.edu/admissions-records/enrollment-requirements&lt;/a&gt; . Presumably, this is to prevent any student from taking more than his/her “fair share” of courses, so that there is space for everyone. Since 15 per semester average is needed to graduate with 120 units in 8 semesters, that should be doable if the student schedules carefully. CSUN’s departments also helpfully have four year recommended schedules for various majors, so that the students have templates to follow.</p>

<p>Some CSUs, like Bakersfield, Fresno, Fullerton, Pomona, San Bernardino, and Stanislaus, have four year graduation pledge programs.
<a href=“California State University, Bakersfield”>California State University, Bakersfield;
<a href=“http://www.fresnostate.edu/academics/aps/documents/apm/202.pdf”>http://www.fresnostate.edu/academics/aps/documents/apm/202.pdf&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“404: File Not Found - Academic Advising Center | CSUF”>404: File Not Found - Academic Advising Center | CSUF;
<a href=“https://www.csupomona.edu/~academic-programs/graduation-pledge/index.shtml”>https://www.csupomona.edu/~academic-programs/graduation-pledge/index.shtml&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://www.ugs.csusb.edu/advising/fygp.html”>http://www.ugs.csusb.edu/advising/fygp.html&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“Program: Baccalaureate Degree Requirements - California State University, Stanislaus - Acalog ACMS™”>Program: Baccalaureate Degree Requirements - California State University, Stanislaus - Acalog ACMS™;
The fact that four year graduation rates are still low at these campuses indicates that the reasons for delayed graduation are other than the “cannot get into classes” one.</p>

<p>GFG lives in the Northeast (I believe New Jersey) so none of the California statistics are at all relevant for her D. The only kids I know from NJ who couldn’t manage an 8 semester track were kids who decided that their social life came first- academics second.</p>

<p>This is something that concerns me. My daughter is not a great student. She got into some state universities that I think can provide a good education (if you have the motivation to take advantage of it). But the grads rates are low. And I wonder how much of it is transfers and part-timers vs. a whole bunch of kids just not ready for college and thinking they can party for four years. </p>

<p>A state school in PA may be cheaper than the alternatives, but it’s still $20,000 a year, including room and board. I don’t want to pay an extra $20-40,000 because she’s having such a great time - or because the school stinks at letting the students schedule the pre-requisites they need to progress. </p>

<p>Is her intended major one which requires a long sequence of prerequisites, or has lots of requirements? If so, she needs to follow the schedule template carefully and be willing to take courses offered at 8am or other undesired times.</p>

<p>If she is relatively undecided on major, that can be a risk if she changes major relatively late.</p>

<p>If she is not a great student, will she need remedial course work? If so, that increases the risk of late graduation. Starting at a community college may be more strongly indicated in this case, since extra semesters at community colleges tend to cost less than at four year schools.</p>

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<p>@UCbalumnus–Right. That’s what I said. What are you disagreeing with?</p>

<p>As Blossom says, The GFG lives in the northeast, I believe NJ. I work at a NJ state school. Plenty of kids graduate on time. the classes are available. It does take planning and flexibility. Which are good skills to have.</p>

<p>So you would not say that at your institution it is difficult to obtain spots in certain courses? Friend’s son at a NJ state school recently cut the beginning of a class in order to be at his laptop to register the minute registration opened. </p>

<p>^that I will agree with. Students’ registration times should not coincide with when they have class. I have had students secretly trying to register on their cell phones in class. I sympathize with that. They were looking for better times, not whether they’d get class at all.</p>

<p>No school can accurately guess each semester exactly how many students want a particular class. Sometimes they close. My D at a highly ranked private LAC had that issue at times–21 or 22 or 23 students want a class capped at 20. There’s nothing about that that is unique to a public–what’s more, at a larger school, the class is more likely to be offered again the next year, or next semester, or summer, or accelerated winter, etc. At a small private, it might not roll around again for two years. Graduating in a timely manner does take time and attention to procedures.</p>

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<p>You mean like in this thread?
<a href=“No Calc 101 for you! - Parents Forum - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1556885-no-calc-101-for-you-p1.html&lt;/a&gt;
It appears that the small school in question has an overenrollment situation in its frosh calculus course, so it added a prerequisite of high school calculus that was not mentioned in the catalog in order to get some students to drop the course.</p>

<p>Colleges theoretically can made decent estimates (but apparently the college in the linked thread did not). Also, junior/senior level courses can have priority registration for those in the majors that need those courses. But it is likely that research universities have more flexibility to expand class sizes, since the pool of PhD students can be reallocated into TA jobs for the classes that have higher demand, and do not promise small class sizes in the first place like LACs (but is small class size useful if you cannot get into the class at all because it is full?).</p>

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<p>True, it makes sense to check whether a required course for the intended major is offered infrequently, which can mean delayed graduation if it is somehow missed. This may be more of a problem with small schools or small departments in any size school.</p>

<p>No surprise when most American children are not graduating from high school “college ready.” Their grammar is atrocious, their reading speed is juvenile, most are barely able to tackle college algebra, and they lack the maturity and discipline to be a successful college student. It takes most of them a year or two to get up to speed.</p>

<p>Last spring, I was on the elevator at work and I overheard a women talking about her upcoming college graduation. As it turned out, it took her 13 years to get her BA, going to school part-time and having classes reimbursed by our employer. I told her my hat was off to her for perserverence if nothing else, and I hope she’s able to take that hard-earned credential to improve her life. She’s earned it. </p>

<p>Another factor that makes a difference is that there a students who encounter serioues health issues that require them to cut back, take incompletes or otherwise prolong their college experience. We know a singificant number of young people who have taken longer than they would have liekd due to these issues. Also, kids who transfer are NOT counted as graduates if they transfer to other Us, even if they do finally get their degrees. </p>