Most selective Academic Schools

College Majors Music Major
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<p>My son is a HS junior sax player who is currently thinking he wants to double major in music (BA, not BM) and math. He is an excellent student who has the grades and test scores to apply to any school (though getting accepted is, of course, another story).</p>

<p>His current thought (though, being a teenager, it changes) is that he would like to apply to some of the most selective academic schools, but also wants ones that are solid in music. Being a sax player he is looking for places that support jazz - not necessarily a jazz studies major, but have good ensembles/combos and offer at least some courses like Improv and Jazz Theory and/or Arranging.</p>

<p>So, does anyone have any information about such places? From what we have learned so far, it seems that Oberlin, Indiana, Miami, Southern Cal, UCLA, and Michigan seem to fit the bill. What about Ivy schools, Stanford, Cal, Duke, Emory, Washington (St. Louis), Tulane, U Chicago, Vanderbilt, Tufts, MIT, Amherst, U Texas, Rice, Georgetown, Case Western, Northwestern, Carnegie Mellon, Reed, Lewis and Clark, Rhodes, or other places I may not have mentioned?</p>

<p>Any insights would be much appreciated. Thanks.</p>

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<p>A number of top academic jazz students I know have chosen Columbia.</p>

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<p>Ive only heard marginal things about Tulanes small music program, but you might look over the fence (literally) at Loyola New Orleans. Oberlin, USC(CA) and UCLA are right on the money.</p>

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<p>SpiritManager, last spring my S and I visited Northwestern and it might be worth looking into for your S. Our student tour guide happened to be a saxophone/psychology double major (plus some other emphasis, I think!). Northwestern allows non-music majors in their jazz ensembles, too, last time I checked.</p>

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<p>You cannot enter as a BA in music at Rice. You can convert from BM to BA after one year but you may lose studio time and teacher. If you want to major in music you have to be accepted at Shepherd for music, you don’t then apply to Rice for another major, too. He would need to be in touch with the studio professor to find out how they manage the double major request. At Rice you don’t technically declare majors until end of sophomore year. A quick look at Rice studios shows none listed for sax so I am not sure how sax is assigned. You should call admissions to find out. I don’t see much jazz on the web page. It may not be a good music fit.</p>

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<p>jazzpianomom - I think you have me confused with the OP - my son’s a composer at Bard Conservatory :slight_smile: He did apply and seriously consider Northwestern, however.</p>

<p>The question for the OP will be if at a school like Oberlin if he’s not in the conservatory pursuing a BM in jazz sax - how will that impact his experience? Same question for Michigan, Miami, USC (California) and Indiana. I often think it’s better to be in a school that does not have a school of music or offer a BM - then the BA students will have full opportunities and support. If he wants to pursue a double degree, that’s a different story. And he should then check out Tufts/NEC, too.</p>

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<p>Oops! Didn’t scroll up to the top – I meant to address MdnDad, who posted the original question!</p>

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<p>Mdndad,</p>

<p>My son is a percussionist and sounds similar to your son. He has just finished his auditions and looked at schools with top notch academics and music. He auditioned at Oberlin, Michigan, Northwestern, Indiana, Bard, Peabody/Johns Hopkins, and Eastman/University of Rochester, Cincinnati Conservatory of Music, and University of Kentucky. My son spent a great deal of time researching faculty and we visited all the schools prior to his senior year. He was also able to meet the faculty. My son loves academics and music and couldn’t really (or didn’t want to) choose between the two. My advice to him was to choose a place where you would be happy either/or. That way if you decide to go in one direction versus double degree you would not regret your decision. So far it has worked out pretty well. He doesn’t have all his decisions back yet but he will have very good schools to choose from. The application process was a boatload of work but he got through it with much logistical steerage on my part. I will tell you though, it’s not for the faint of heart. I’m happy to help if you want to message me. Information and others on this Forum has been hugely helpful.</p>

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<p>FYI - at Rice’s Shepherd School of Music there is no jazz and you can’t study saxophone. There is a jazz band and a marching band, but those are available through the University, not the school of music.</p>

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<p>We come out of a very large metropolitan Jazz program and over the years have had musicians choose Stanford and Columbia for the exact reasons you state. We had 2 to both schools this past fall and have 1 to Columbia ED this coming fall. Both schools have much to offer for highly academic/musical students. Have also heard Duke has great offerings and met a proff from Williams socially that had a program you might want to check out. We also know a family very happy at Carnegie M but when we checked it out, didn’t seem to have enough Jazz going on.</p>

<p>S is in at USC and currently just auditioned at NYU which both have impressive Jazz programs and offer minor/double major options.</p>

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<p>I think SpiritManager brought up a good point about possibly not enjoying the BA music experience when everyone else at your school is a BM performance major. That said, almost all if not all of the Ivy Leagues only offer BA music for undergrads, with Yale probably being the most prominent among them, although it’s more highly regarded for its graduate music programs. I’m sure it’s probably not that uncommon to double major at any of these schools either, so they might prove a good fit.</p>

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<p>Spirit Manager makes a good point, but what about applying to a SOM where you CAN take a degree designed for cognate study?</p>

<p>Eg. at Umich, which is on your list, look into the Bachelor of Musical Arts degree that’s available to the Jazz/improv students to pursue a full second major. There are about four different degrees available for jazz students. My son is in a different program there, but knows a lot of the jazz students, and they seem to love it.</p>

<p>In that case, he wouldn’t really be “missing” any of the BM opportunities, because he’d be at the SOM.</p>

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<p>Columbia has definitely been drawing some of the top high school jazz musicians in recent years. I think it’s a combination of having a good jazz program itself, including a special concentration in jazz (see [Jazz</a> at Columbia | The Department of Music at Columbia University](<a href=“http://www.music.columbia.edu/JazzAtColumbia]Jazz”>Louis Armstrong Jazz Program - Columbia University Department of Music)), and being in New York, which is truly jazz mecca with many opportunities for performance, jam sessions, etc. around the city. It also offers a formal program with Juilliard, which has some top jazz faculty, and is in close proximity to Manhattan School of Music, which has one of the best jazz programs in the country and affords informal opportunities for cross-pollination.</p>

<p>@PianoMan12, Yale has an excellent music department and School of Music, but neither has a jazz program. The Yale Daily News had an article recently bemoaning the lack of jazz at Yale. [Dream</a> a little dream of jazz | WEEKEND | Yale Daily News](<a href=“http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2012/jan/27/dream-a-little-dream-of-jazz/]Dream”>http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2012/jan/27/dream-a-little-dream-of-jazz/)</p>

<p>I don’t know much about the jazz program at Stanford, but the Stanford Jazz Workshop has an incredible program over the summer where high school students can live on campus and study with some of the top touring jazz artists in the country. To the OP - your son may want to check it out. [Stanford</a> Jazz Workshop](<a href=“http://stanfordjazz.org/]Stanford”>http://stanfordjazz.org/)</p>

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<p>Hmm, I was unaware of that. However, I’m glad my idea about the Ivies had some validity to it!</p>

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<p>My daughter (who plays sax) has a friend from Tanglewood (a great baritone sax player) who decided to attend Yale (studying physics) and continue music studies there. The friend gets to perform in the top ensembles at Yale, and she takes private lessons on the side. She’s a classical sax player, but jazz players need to learn the classical side as well.</p>

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<p>If the kid is really interested in majoring in math, MIT is certainly a school that cannot easily be beat. MIT does actually have a music department, and (at least when I was there in the 1970s) EVERYone who graduated, even English and Music majors, received a BS degree (due to the heavy science and math requirements). MIT has, since I was there and longer, a nice jazz band. And if the kid decides that another science is better for him than math, MIT offers that too. Getting in to MIT is no easy task now a days, tho. As of 2 years ago, MIT did not use the common app, but instead had its own set of papers to write. SAT scores are of paramount importance for admissions, as in all of the ivies (though for some ivies if you are uber-rich, that helps lots, I would not want to mention any names (Hahvahd)). If your son has 700+ average per test, his admissions chances will be good.</p>

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<p>We know a jazz saxophonist at Tufts who is very happy; and there is the double degree program with NEC, which has jazz. Harvard also has a double degree program with NRC, but that is a BA/MM, and Tufts is a BA/BM.</p>

<p>I think Oberlin would be an excellent choice. They have a new jazz building. But it would be tough to be in the college and not in the conservatory. I would audition for the conservatory and start there, then double major if needed. There is a “low wall” between the college and conservatory, meaning you can move back and forth, but the college music majors don’t have the same opportunities as the conservatory majors.</p>

<p>Do Columbia students cross the street and do jazz at Manhattan School of Music at all? jazz there is great.</p>

<p>This is not relevant to the topic but just wanted to say that the school of music at Yale is a mixed blessing, since undergrads often don’t get to take advantage of those resources. My daughter chose Harvard because she really liked their music classes, that there were fewer distribution requirements than Yale, and that 50% of her classes at Harvard are music (at Yale they would be closer to 1/3, she thought). Someone else could come on here and praise Yale and we are all right in what we have to say :)</p>

<p>She wanted to go to conservatory and got into some that she loved, but we could not afford them.She has developed a strong interest in art history and history, so it is good in some ways that she is at a university, but in many ways I think she would have been happier at a conservatory. Everyone is different, and things can change quickly in senior year.</p>

<p>These are hard decisions. We felt the best path in senior year was to have all options open until late April, so doing auditions for conservatories as well as college applications left the doors open until the very last minute in our house!</p>

<p>As someone mentioned, there is always the option of studying jazz off campus and performing off campus as well.</p>

<p>One of my kids is a dancer. She wanted academics and went to college versus conservatory. Now she finds that the classes she loves are all dance classes, so who knows, maybe she’ll end up at a conservatory.</p>

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<p>We heard the Harvard jazz ensemble several years ago and they were excellent. But I think it is viewed as an extracurricular activity at Harvard - someone please confirm.</p>

<p>We have also heard the jazz ensembles at Bucknell, Williams, Amherst, Hamilton and Vassar. If you are looking for an LAC with a solid jazz program - look at these. They may not have the depth of a music school but they do have combos and a big band and courses. What they also have is perhaps more chances to play in different groups and maybe have your compositions performed. I think the jazz groups can be taken for credit at some of these LACs. There are probably more LACs with good jazz - these are the ones that we actually got to visit.</p>

<p>I agree 100% with compmom to have all kinds of options available so a choice can be made in May. People can change a lot between November and May so having an option or two in each type of school category is a great idea!</p>

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<p>Off the radar a bit, but Northern Illinois University in DeKalb has a sweet jazz program.</p>

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<p>^ not to mention the #1 steel band program in the country. Unfortunately there is no one in the state that could even remotely argue for the academic rigor of NIU.</p>

<p>But along those lines, how about reasonably affordable options for music/academics for those full pay who can’t even consider the high end privates?</p>