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<p>it’s generally safe to assume that any statement that begins with, “i’m not racist, but…” is probably racist.</p>
<p>Wow, New Fish, you sound borderline racist at this point…and I’m not PC myself.
I can’t speak for white culture, but I’m asian, and a lot of asian cultures value education, which may explain why low-income asians beat rich african americans on the SAT, because we’re pushed more to succeed academically. I’m not talking about everyone obviously, but this generalization explains a lot. So yeah, that’s why AA exists - to help URMs who are disadvantaged not only because on average they’re poorer, but also culturally. You talk about having a “mentality makeover” - well if more URMs go to college, fewer will be poor and maybe one day we won’t need AA anymore. And they’re not getting a “free ride”, just a boost in admissions.</p>
<p>Frankly, I don’t think it’s a bad idea. I trust that Mt. Holyoke is smart enough to make it something that is worthwhile. Some people are probably repulsed by the whole idea because “white people seminars” are associated with racist groups. However, I think there’s a difference between shouting “white power” and having an optional orientation session dedicated to history and ways of thinking.</p>
<p>Perhaps this seminar can explain things like affirmative action, or stereotypes. When I was applying to colleges for the first time, I myself couldn’t believe that because of my skin color it’s harder for me to get into certain places. Now that I’m looking for jobs, I find that I’m held back from applying to things because I’m not a minority. But I understand that it’s important for our society to maintain balances. Perhaps some people don’t, and attending seminars like these might help them become more accepting.</p>
<p>I hope more universities do this.</p>
<p>“This is not universal, so I’m not laying a stereotype down on a whole race, but it is very prevalent among their race and anyone who argues differently is too PC”</p>
<p>This is shameful. If I didn’t know better I would think you were Sean Hannity. You know, launching attacks those who disagree with you. I couldn’t imagine conversing with someone and saying those who dissent have been afflicted with some discommode.</p>
<p>I think this is a pretty good idea, if it is handled appropriately. I think that Diversity Days or orientations for students of color are very important and helpful. (I haven’t actually attended a “Diversity Day” for a university, but I have been involved with programs similar to them.) I think that for students of color entering predominantly-white institutions, it is important for them to a) get to know each other and build some sort of relation and community around; b) learn the resources available to them in said institution, be it advising, cultural houses, clubs, etc. It is at times intimidating to walk into a place and see that the vast majority of people are unlike you. Clubs, cultural houses, etc. are venues where students of color can feel more comfortable (if need be) in their schools and provides an escape (or support group) if students run across racial issues that are difficult to deal with alone. It is also very important for the student to have a venue to express their own cultures, if they wish, where the university at large might not allow them to express it. White students at time feel as if they’re being slighted by these programs, but this is just not the case. The point of these programs aren’t (or shouldn’t be) about “bashing whitey” but about learning where to turn for help.</p>
<p>I feel that white students are usually left out of the important conversations surrounding race. In my experiences, this is more the fault of the white student than anything, but I do agree that lack of communication is also at fault. Regardless, I think it is important to incorporate white students into the discussion, if only so that they can better understand the perspectives of students of color. I, however, feel that teaching white students about the powerful, oppressive social forces is paramount in achieving social justice and interracial harmony, if that is what we are after.</p>
<p>To those who think that there should be a joint seminar, I think I would agree with you that it is necessary for the races to come together and discuss. I’m not sure whether I would agree that the main part of the event should be interracial. From my experiences and perspective (as a student of color), white students tend to shut down in conversations of race where dominant voices of color are present. They are scared to really voice their opinions for fear of being called “racist.” I believe, but have no proof, that white students would be better served if there is minimal student of color participation, at least at a preliminary step. Here, white students would get to learn and discuss among each other, without fearing a retaliation from students of color. This would at least help them get comfortable with the material and/or better prepare them to discuss these issues with students of color. (But I do agree that at some point it would be beneficial to have a joint conference/event/whatever.) </p>
<p>The title definitely has a sour-sound to it; I myself was taken a back when I saw the title of this thread. However, it makes sense and a lawsuit would be completely idiotic in this case and no judge in their right mind should adhere to the lawsuit. It’s not a matter of “minorities have one, so I should have one too.” The events are simply geared towards a different audience.</p>
<p>Hmmm… I’ll likely be going to Mt Holoyke in the fall. After reading the article I feel while the intention is good, eventually, they should merge both programs in some way and have break-out groups. I think a white kid or two sitting in on a mostly non-white kid group and vice versa is more likely to develop the kind of insight they are seeking. Segregation isn’t the answer, but both pre-orientation programs are optional; nobody is forcing anyones hand. Most people think I am black or hispanic but I’m a half sephardic Jewish and the other half is a mix of East African and Chinese. Programs that try and pigeon hole or segregate students just don’t sit ell with me. Especially as many mutliracial people may not identify or have grown up in a culture similar to how they look or even be what people perceive them as. I have a half black/white cousin who looks white with blond hair and blue eyes grew up in the whitest state: Vermont with two white parents. Even though she is proud to be part black she identifies as white and with white new england culture. Now what pre-orientation would they tell her to attend?</p>
<p>They’d let her choose and she’d probably choose the white one, if she chose to go at all</p>
<p>made my day.</p>
<p>egolikestomach: But if she looked black but everything was otherwise the same, I think she’d be discouraged from joining the white one. I think policies like this isolate the increasing large mixed population.</p>
<p>I wonder if she’d received an invitation to both?</p>
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<p>I’m not aware of policies, but I’m sure colleges do not discriminate or ban students from attending events like these. I think colleges would select certain students to give invitations to, but if another student wanted to observe or participate I doubt they wouldn’t be allowed to.</p>
<p>I guess know other races now how white people feel when they see clubs for minority groups. And don’t start with the “all other clubs are white people clubs” bit. I’ve never seen a “white person club”. There’s a National Hispanic Scholarship, National Achievement Scholarship, but there’s not one just for Western-European-Americans. This doesn’t bother me.</p>
<p>However, it does bother me when one college decides that because they have orientation sessions for Asian Americans, Native Americans, and African Americans ( [Mount</a> Holyoke College :: Pre-Orientation](<a href=“http://www.mtholyoke.edu/offices/dos/12606.shtml]Mount”>http://www.mtholyoke.edu/offices/dos/12606.shtml) ), they should have one for white students and people cry foul.</p>
<p>This is a double standard.</p>
<p>Guys, it’s not like they’re going to set up guards at the door and stop colored people from entering…Whites can join the Asian Club, Hispanics can join the African Student Union, so on and so forth. Chances are the majority of students will be white for obvious reasons, but they’re not going to stop anyone from joining or coming to the seminar. This is why I think a lawsuit is not gonna happen - why should it? Mt Holyoke has opened a KKK club…I bet any student could stroll in. Same for other clubs regarding minorities.</p>
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<p>if she looked black she’d have a completely different set of racial experiences and wouldn’t need to go to the white one, because it wouldn’t apply to her. </p>
<p>when you’re out in the real world, nobody knows your background. they judge you based on what they can see immediately and all of the assumptions that go along with that. so if this girl who lived a middle-class lifestyle looked black, she would be treated by people who didn’t know her as though she were black. she would have a totally different racial experience and thus probably wouldn’t need to hear the “here is what white privilege is, here is how it affects you, and here is how it affects people who aren’t you” speech. </p>
<p>this isn’t a “policy.” it’s an opportunity to help white students locate themselves in a very complicated discussion about race. it’s very hard, as a white person, to discuss race relations and racial problems if you haven’t first realized that you hold the power. and if she looked black, she wouldn’t hold the power, no matter what her class background was.</p>
<p>So the **** what? Minorities are allowed to be proud (and not to mention be rewarded) for their involuntary ethnicity, why shouldn’t whites be?</p>
<p>Edit: And will all of you shut the flying **** up about ‘racist’? Everyone is racist. It’s natural for the brain to categorize things, including other people, and make generalizations about them. It’s not an insult, it’s not even against the law. When it moves from generalizations into racial slurs and presuming your generalizations hold true to all members of a race, that’s when it becomes abnormal.</p>
<p>CrySomeMore, I agree with you, and now I feel like I’m a total jackass because of that. I also have no problem with white pride (which is what you claim as well), and you then call it racist in the next line. Having pride in your race or ethnicity has nothing to do with hating others because of their race. It’s pretty much universally agreed that it’s inappropriate to hate someone for their race, and the fact that you seem to disagree is rather disturbing. Statements like your’s are the ones which hold these back, as people seem them as “White Power” instead of “White Pride” and decide they not to completely alienate themselves.</p>
<p>Why are you guys acting like this is some sort of White Power seminar? It’s a seminar to discuss social issues, I bet it’ll be an hour and a half of listening about how whites are privileged and minorities need extra help and all that. Also, obviously students of every color will be allowed in if they want, they can’t stop anyone, just like a non-asian person can join the Asian American Club or whatever.</p>
<p>White-only orientation? Sounds like something at Notre Dame</p>
<p>How do I call it ‘hating someone for their race’? I suppose I used the wrong word - prejudice should have been the word instead of racist (because of how often people throw the word around, I was off on the actual definition of the word ‘racist’). I NEVER said it was OK to hate someone for their race, I meant it was OK to make generalizations about races as long as you don’t act violently or maliciously as a result of those generalizations.</p>