Mount Holyoke or Community College?

<p>@Californya It sounds like you don’t really want to go to MHC. If so, just say no. If you can’t find anything good about the place right now (which is how it seems–you haven’t said one positive thing about MHC) it won’t get any better once you get there. If you’re thinking it’s second-rate, you belong somewhere else. You probably won’t be happy.</p>

<p>@greengriffins The 89% is not of recent… that’s more like from a couple years back. I sat on a college council meeting at MHC once and was shocked to hear about how crappy the retention rate was.<br>
To be honest, I think it’s fair to say I’m revealing a ton of info typically discussed behind closed doors. </p>

<p>@greengriffins Exactly! If NYU has been raising their tuition consistently, why has their ranking gone down? The tuition raise in itself shouldn’t necessarily affect how US News rates the school. Where, how and why did you come to that conclusion? So how is MHC’s tuition freeze affecting their US News rank?</p>

<p>@Bromfield2 Again, I’m sure MHC can be a great place for anyone to grow (even me.) I’m just concerned about job prospects. I’m skeptical because all the ‘hoopla’ I’ve read about MHC points to strictly anecdotal evidence, while threads for bigger U’s and top-notch LACs use qualitative and quantitative data to prove how great of an experience college there is. </p>

<p>QuestBridge, the National Honors Society and other similar nonprofits don’t dream of placing their students into MHC on grants and scholarships. They’d want Wellesley at the very least, if not Amherst, Stanford or Swarthmore.</p>

<p>Just keeping it real, guys. </p>

<p>For the record, I don’t think an economics major will magically protect me from the danger of unemployment. I know of several econ majors who couldn’t find jobs straight out of college. I guess I’ve lost faith in the study of the liberal arts. I suck at math and especially science, so I don’t think engineering would be the wisest option.</p>

<p>I have this looming fear that my abilities, talents and skill set will leave me deadbeat, broke and poor for the rest of my life.</p>

<p>Thus I thought maybe a communications major? But MHC doesn’t have that (and neither do Amherst, Columbia, Yale or even the famous Ivies and LACs.) So I guess that’s a testament to how rigorous of a major choice that’d be.</p>

<p>The top schools usually have comm master’s programs (with the exception of NYU, USC, UCLA and Northwestern) so I guess it’s the wisest choice for me to work my absolute hardest at a strong liberal arts school like MoHo.<br>
Even if I got into one of the above programs, I’d only really ‘focus’ on communications for two years anyway, which is basically like enrolling in a M.A. degree. I guess if I were to further my education, it’d be best to get some life experience after school, come back to the U.S. for work, and if I felt further schooling was necessary, go for it.</p>

<p>But my big concern is how much money this all costs. My family’s not in a financial situation that can’t afford MHC, but I have a feeling that say, if one day, our income gets cut off for one reason or another, we’ll be saddled with so much debt. </p>

<p>It would give me greater peace of mind if I went to a public school financially speaking, but then again, opportunities are limited and alum networks tend not to be as strong. Even at places like UCLA, Berkeley and Michigan.</p>

<p>Also, given the price tag of MHC and the types it attracts, the greater likelihood I have of building a strong, supportive network of well-connected, wealthy, influential people while in college. I definitely think MHC would be a good choice from this perspective. </p>

<p>Also, MHC is a very warm, friendly supportive place to be. I know this firsthand because after my first semester, my English professor mailed highlights of my semester’s work with feedback, comments and advice to help further my writing abilities. THAT I would have never expected, having experienced the public school system where teachers generally see you as a classroom statistic and give no second chances. (There are exceptions to this)</p>

<p>In a way, I wonder if going to a place like MHC kind of positions me as immature to society and future employers, since when looking at colleges I wanted a “small, close-knit community” with “caring professors.” I know other kids who don’t need this and sailed through most of school effortlessly. They picked up all the accolades, the awards, the grants, the scholarships, you name it.<br>
It seems like America still buys into a very individualistic definition of success. “The lone wolf who does it all” is typically viewed as the queen bee or king of all the land. </p>

<p>Also, when I talked about what I looked for in a college, school counselors generally insinuated that “hand-holding” was unnecessary and childish.<br>
However, that seems to be the main benefit most LACs emphasize at their schools.</p>

<p>And this council meeting I speak of @greengriffins was held in October of last year. So, VERY recent.</p>

<p>CA: Are you at MHC now and want to transfer to a JC? Not sure of your status; your comment about your English prof giving you great feedback on improving your writing suggests that you are already enrolled. If that is the case you probably should transfer, because it really sounds like there’s much more you dislike than you like about the college. You can’t do well academically or socially if you are miserable.</p>

<p>To respond to some of the issues you’ve raised:</p>

<p>If finances are a big concern (you can no longer pay tuition or it’s an undue burden), then there’s not much you can do about that. Are you an MA resident? If so, UMass is just down the road. Obviously, you can take courses there now if you’re at MHC and see if you like it. You’ll also get out of the small LAC environment and see what it’s like at a big research university. I know many kids in the Honors Program at UMass who have flourished. Maybe that’s the road you should take.</p>

<p>As for future employment, one of the huge benefits of going to a women’s college is that many of the women who have graduated and are out in the workforce and have been successful are very anxious to assist and mentor younger women who come from their alma mater. All of the women’s colleges have some fairly impressive alumni and that “old-girls network” is incredibly helpful in getting great internships, apprenticeships, and job interviews. I have a D who graduated from one of the women’s colleges (not MHC) and she’s amazed at the many ways in which alums from her college have provided her with a variety of opportunities in her field. </p>

<p>@Bromfield2 No, I’m at a JC for the meantime- debating on whether or not I should return to MHC in the fall semester. (I have the option of doing so)
Special circumstances have led me to my current situation- won’t talk about that in great detail. </p>

<p>In a couple posts above I actually said finances are not a concern regarding tuition and fees at MHC. However, in the event of an unexpected catastrophe when my family income gets cut off, I fear I will be the sole reason for my entire family going into debt.</p>

<p>I know MoHo’s alum network is strong, but I hear it time and time again from employers- experience beats credentials, prestige and sometimes even grades. That’s why I said my friends at urban colleges have a leg up in the competition for post-grad employment- they have a concrete jungle of firms before their eyes. </p>

<p>I’ve taken a look at entertainment PR firms like PMK*BNC, 42 West and BWR. All their locations are in New York or LA. </p>

<p>I feel like I’m kind of at a loss because my grades suck, my IQ hovers slightly above average (indicative of my natural learning aptitude), my SAT score blows and I don’t have some exceptional skill, talent or quality that differentiates me from 99.99% of the human population.</p>

<p>[If only I could find a way to double major in something math-y and humanities-oriented, score a terrific and impressive GPA and get a couple coveted internships under my belt. Not to mention strengthen my connections with people in the industry.]</p>

<p>Mehhhhhhhhh life decisions. Why so hard? Lol.</p>

<p>@Bromfield2
Not to mention join a sorority- they’re great for party/social connections and networking for jobs and relationships in college and afterward. Hahaha. I have some friends in Greek life at top schools and they host kick-ass events, bringing ridiculously accomplished alums to school with their brothers and GDI amigos. Lol.</p>

<p>@Bromfield2 Happiness is not location-dependent. That’s a huge misconception that people have about what truly makes people happy. Idk if you know much about Daniel Gilbert, the guy who conducted and pioneered happiness research at Harvard, but WE construct our own happiness.</p>

<p>I can be happy at Mt. Holyoke, just like anywhere else in the world. Changing schools won’t make me necessarily any happier, but in some cases can satisfy some individuals’ needs and educational goals (e.g. a girl transferring from MHC to MIT for a computer engineering undergrad program…)</p>

<p>@Bromfield2 Same goes for anyone else regarding the whole “changing schools” shebang.</p>

<p>* @Bromfield2 Happiness is not location-dependent. That’s a huge misconception that people have about what truly makes people happy. Idk if you know much about Daniel Gilbert, the guy who conducted and pioneered happiness research at Harvard, but WE construct our own happiness.*</p>

<p>This is a somewhat inaccurate oversimplification of Gilbert’s research. He does research on affective forecasting, or how accurate people’s predictions of their future feelings are. (Answer: Not very.) What he actually concludes is that people think that major events like losing a job or going through a divorce are going to impact them much more negatively than those events actually do. His research shows that humans are incredibly resilient and can bounce back from emotional damages pretty easily, not necessarily that “we construct our own happiness”. Gilbert himself also notes that your health, your socioeconomic status, and the quality of your relationships can all affect your happiness.</p>

<p>Interestingly he also has a study showing that undergraduates are terrible at predicting their happiness based upon what dorm they will live in; they pay far too much attention to the relatively minor physical details of the buildings that distinguish them, as opposed to the actually relevant social environment of the residence halls that are actually pretty similar between the residence halls. I think that’s actually relevant to the discussion at hand and CC as a whole - high-achieving students, IMO, pay far too much attention to the minute and largely unimportant differences between top universities that are unlikely to have much of an impact on their student experience, while largely ignoring the actually important factors that are pretty similar from elite school to elite school.</p>

<p>But that’s besides the point.</p>

<p>For some reason, you seem to have a low opinion of Mount Holyoke, based upon…it’s not really clear. You say that rankings are somewhat important to you, but MHC is ranked on par with or higher than many of the schools you listed in your OP (Tulane, Occidental, BU, and Fordham at least). I think perhaps Columbia might afford you more advantages - maybe UCLA, too - but aside from that, I don’t think any of the other schools on your list would give you a significant advantage employment-wise over MHC.</p>

<p>But if you don’t want to go back to MHC…don’t go. Seriously. You seem to think their retention rate is low (even though last year’s data in several places disagrees with you) and that the student and educational quality is also low (the stats of accepted students and the college’s overall reputation disagree with you). And they don’t have the major you really want (although neither does Columbia, btw, and perhaps several other colleges on your list). If you are currently in JC, why don’t you simply apply widely to see if you get in anywhere else as a transfer student and then make your decision at that point?</p>

<p>I do want to add that Columbia’s transfer admission rate is lower than 5%; I believe that Vanderbilt’s is also low. And the UCs’ transfer system mostly focuses on students transferring from CA CCs and heavily favors them, so you may find it difficult to transfer into a UC unless the JC you are attending is a CA CC.</p>

<p>@juillet Thank you for the informative post. I’m glad you caught me on oversimplifying Gilbert’s happiness research. Also, MHC is on par with Occidental- they tie for #38 on the national liberal arts colleges list. Tulane’s like at #52 for national U’s, #41 for BU and #57 for Fordham. </p>

<p>So yeah, as of now MHC is much closer to being on par with those schools you claim are “below” it.</p>

<p>Smith’s like #20 for LAC’s, while UCLA’s at #23. I’ve heard MANY similarities exist between Smith and MHC, culture-wise and academically… although I’ve heard from some girls that Smith’s academics are a bit harder. Makes sense.</p>

<p>[I doubt UCLA will be that different from MHC academically, if some girls are saying Smith is like it in many ways. Smith + UCLA are roughly equal in terms of ranking, so maybe their academics are alike? Idk.]</p>

<p>@juillet I put in a ton of thought into why I really wanted to go to UCLA in the first place. It was my dream school from junior year of high school, but I’m weighing the costs of spending 1-2 years at home when I could be away at MHC pursuing an enriching period of personal growth.</p>

<p>@juillet Like I said in the OP, I used to go home every day and watch reruns of Glee and Greek. I would fantasize about the camaraderie and sisterhood found in sororities and wanted an environment that would be conducive to letting such friendships happen. Hahahaha. I then later realized Greek was based on the sorority life at UCLA, so I figured… OH THAT’S WHERE I WANNA GO. But when I visited UCLA, I never once sat inside a classroom. I also looked on StudentsReview and discovered that some upper-div classes hover around ~300 per class. If I looked into pursuing research projects as a junior, it’d also probably be wayyy more competitive to get spots, not to mention the professor’s guidance and attention to your project and interests. Good luck with that. </p>

<p>@juillet At MHC, I know that some upper div classes are like, 9 people per class. For some courses, profs host it socratic seminar-style. I really loved that when I visited. </p>

<p>@juillet Honestly, the only thing at this point that would win me over for UCLA would be its proximity and Greek-affiliated network to the entertainment industry. I’ve always wanted to be in the arts in some way, shape or form… whether it be as a producer, market researcher, agency work, running promotions or possibly even my own entertainment company. Hehe. But that’s where the importance of learning code comes in- a lot of entertainment firms are merging with the tech world. Even superagents like Patrick Whitesell and Ari Emanuel say so.</p>

<p>@juillet I know of someone who has like a 4.0 at UCLA, two top-tier industry internships under her belt she does during the school year (due to UCLA’s proximity to CAA, UTA, Fox, WME), a math/physics major… and let’s not forget how unforgiving and short those quarters are at the UCs. HOW THE HELL ARE THESE PEOPLE ALIVE
is my biggest question. </p>

<p>@juillet I guess I secretly (or now, not so secret) want to be like this person I know, and thus think that going to UCLA will transform my academic and time management abilities instantly. Realistically, I know this isn’t true.</p>

<p>@juillet I have until May 5 to decide on whether or not I should go back to MHC… I kind of do because of all its perks, but I kinda don’t due to some bad social experiences I had there. REALLY BAD.
[PM me if you wanna know more, I’m not gonna talk about it on the forum.] But at the same time, I also think ■■■■■■ social experiences are bound to occur at any school, so I also don’t think this is a legitimate enough reason to turn down the opportunity to go back to Moho. </p>

<p>@Juilet: I’m not the person badmouthing MHC–that’s Californya. Happy was probably not the right word–I’m not up on happiness research. I’m a firm believer (based on anecdotal data) that if one puts oneself into a mindset that says–“this college sucks, I’m not going to get a job here, this place is second-rate (meaning it doesn’t rank very high in USN rankings) I’ll have better opportunities at college X, etc. etc.” that person is not going to accomplish very much unless he/she changes his attitude about that college or decides to be proactive and go after what he/she wants within the existing framework. Since CA believes that the grass is greener somewhere else, then she should go there. It probably won’t be greener, but she doesn’t seem to have money constraints, so why not? </p>

<p>@Bromfield2 Attitude obviously plays a huge role in my approach to education (as with anything in life), but I can’t help but wonder if going to a JC, preparing for transfer all over again (as annoying as this may be) might put me in a better direction career-wise… since I’d get put in touch with internships due to the surrounding urban environment?</p>

<p>But then again, it’s the education that counts more… if you possess strong writing and analytical skills with a few technical abilities here and there, you can go anywhere, pretty much. The fact Columbia doesn’t even have an undergrad communications program probably says a lot about the inherent value in having strong writing skills.
I just somehow wonder if the lack of name recognition is bad… I mean, the negative reviews I saw on StudentsReview said that rarely anyone outside of New England has heard of MHC. </p>

<p>I don’t know why asterisks formed around “****…” I meant to say StudentsReview.</p>

<p>Hardly anyone outside New England has heard of any school that doesn’t have football. Hardly anyone inside New England also. Say “Pomona” in California, just to see. Outside CC posters and people who know elite colleges, basically “hardly anyone has heard of” Pomona. So don’t worry about that criterion. (By this, I mean, “everyone has heard of” or “nobody’s heard of” is totally meaningless when trying to judge a college. You can read post after post here on CC on the topic.)
Realistically, your choices right now are attending a lower-ranked college in a city (you can look into Fordham or Baruch, for instance), attending the flagship (although transferring from MHC to Umass Amherst would be a bit strange) or staying at MHC.
I don’t think your odds of attending a higher-ranked school (University or LAC) are very good, UNLESS you’re currently attending a CA community college - it should have agreements with various UC’s. Otherwise, your odds of transferring to a school that is higher-ranked or “better known” either nationally or outside NE are fairly low. I guess Penn State comes to mind in terms of not-unreachable and known outside New England.
Communication majors are often perceived as not very academically intense. You’d be better off with “traditional” majors and internships. BTW, internshipws don’t depend on your being in a city, but on your alumna/ie network. MHC’s alumna network is excellent.</p>

<p>I’m from Michigan and seriously I have heard of Mount Holyoke so not sure where you get that from. I think you might benefit from some counseling. Either that or you are just discussing what you don’t like about MHC because, why? Not sure. You seem seriously conflicted about your decision which I’m not sure what it was (you got into MHC then decided not to attend? So now you want to know should you attend if they would take you?) Not quite sure. I’m confused (seriously). What are you asking for advice on (or are you asking for advice or just debating the non-merits of MHC?)</p>

<p>@cmgrayson Yeah. I know it sounds really stupid, but I sometimes doubt if MHC is worth the money. Is it a better deal to go with a community college and transfer to a better school? Obviously my stats are pretty bad, so yeah… Penn State is in my future… not the best option.<br>
I feel like I’d have better choices if I did well at MHC and applied to various schools after spending a little over a year there. If I stayed at a CC in California (like I am now), most of my choices would probably be UC schools if I did well.<br>
So yes. I am conflicted as to whether or not I should stay local or go back to MHC. I’m taking a semester off.</p>

<p>@cmgrayson Are you from Michigan, did you go to Michigan or both?</p>

<p>@MYOS1634 </p>

<p>Ah ok. You should go somewhere that you think you will like it, it seems awkward and odd to go from JC to MHC and then transfer somewhere else? Go where you think you will finish. And I almost think that ship has sailed (meaning maybe look at a lower tier college?) I am from Michigan, I did not go to Michigan. I went to a local commuter college and now have a pretty good job in IT. You sound like me (always second guessing decisions and thinking, “I could have done this, or that, blah blah.” Time to stop with the regrets and get about the business of life which your next decision should be to wherever you can finish the fastest so that you can get a job. Or go to graduate school if that’s what you want to do. I could see you still mulling this decision 5 years from now (with no bachelor degree to show for it). </p>

<p>@cmgrayson<br>
I really wanna break into Hollywood and/or the music industry in a PR/marketing function, which is why I’m entertaining the possibility of transferring to schools with strong communications programs and locations in NY, LA Nola or Atlanta (Lots of rap labels are based out of major cities in the South.)
But at the same time, is it easy to get those jobs long as you’re a good communicator? Is it wisest to go to 'SC, UCLA or NYU to hobknob with industry kids and build up that strong network?</p>

<p>@cmgrayson At the same time, a lot of entertainment content is being transferred over to tech firms, so maybe I should consider taking a lot of statistics classes so I could have a data analyst/scientist job if marketing functions become more technical? Math is a taxing subject (as are a lot of technical courses), so for this I would probably go back to Mt. Holyoke. Ideally I would be able to socialize and build contacts with industry people at prestigious schools AND excel in math courses.</p>

<p>I hope you understand my pattern of thinking now…</p>

<p>CA–I’m a graduate of the University of Michigan (back when dinosaurs roamed the earth). If I could go back and do it again–I’d go for a small LAC environment like that of MHC or any of the other Seven Sisters. I grew up in the midwest and heard of MHC and Smith and Vassar because I went to high school with classmates who went there. I went to a public high school in a working-class neighborhood. People who are in a position to hire you know the elite colleges even if the average Joe doesn’t.</p>

<p>I would second the recommendation to go and talk to a career counselor–your CC might have such a resource. It’s clear that you are confused as to your future path. You have lots of ideas but no plan.</p>

<p>If you go back to MHC why don’t you take advantage of the Five Colleges Consortium and take some communications courses at UMass–there’s also a journalism department at UMass as well. See what the courses are like. </p>

<p>If you want to do PR in the music/film industry start networking–see if you can find MHC alums who are working in the field. Go to the career office at MHC and see if you can get an internship at one of the firms you mentioned. You are the person who has to be proactive. Getting a great internship isn’t going to fall in your lap and it isn’t going to happen because you transfer to a university in a big city. </p>