MSM v. SUNY Purchase v. New School

College Majors Music Major
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<p>My son is struggling to choose between these schools -- also hasn't ruled out City College (NY) -- for jazz performance in stand-up bass, and we'd love some advice. First, a little about him:
* He loves playing straight-ahead jazz, but is interested in and eager to learn about other music as well (he still listens to a lot of rock, plays in a punk band and considers his openness to many (almost all) types of music a key part of his musical personality).
* He's a really solid player and loves to play and practice -- he works hard -- but he's not a prodigy or musical genius.
* He's a good but not great student (talking academics here, not music) and is intellectually curious and wants his academic courses to be meaningful
* Our family has saved money for college; we can afford whichever school he chooses, but we're not rich and so we don't ignore value -- SUNY is less than half the price of MSM and, with his scholarship offer from New School, it's somewhere inbetween.</p>

<p>So --
* He's under the impression that MSM has a better reputation than the others and that this will be meaningful upon graduation -- not just the name, but also that he'd develop a network that simply makes getting better gigs easier. Thoughts about this?
* He's also worried that he'd be in over his head at MSM, that he'd be one of the weaker players there. Any thoughts about whether it's a place where a solid player who works hard but isn't a musical genius can thrive?
* He knows a lot of kids at Purchase and is confident he'd fit in well and have a lot of fun. A bit worried that the culture at MSM will be all-music, only music and that he might burn out. Thoughts about this?
* Under the impression that the musical philosophy at New School might be the best fit -- that he'd have the most opportunity to explore and learn about music outside of mainstream jazz there. Thoughts about this?</p>

<p>Thanks for reading this long thread and for your responses!</p>

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<p>Congratulations to you and your son!!! My son just did an All County Jazz with Todd Coolman (SUNY Purchase Jazz Bass Prof) and absolutely loved him. He gave my son tons of pointers plus son said the man had a wicked sense of humor! My son is hoping to work with him this summer if he gets into a local jazz camp. Hopefully your son has taken a private lesson with Dr Coolman. Plus when we were up SUNY Potsdam’s Crane School of Music for an audition the Jazz prof at Crane had only wonderful things to say about Dr. Coolman.</p>

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<p>These are general, not jazz specific comments. If you check the links in my response to your post in the current acceptances thread, the links there will detail some of the means of locating historic info and posters with or at experience with some of the specific programs. There are also a number of jazz specific threads that can be pulled via a search.</p>

<p>The name of the school or its reputation is very often overrated. What’s carved on the stone edifice does not guarantee anything, especially for undergrad. What is important is the student/instructor relationship, the quality of peers, and making the most of the opportunities while there. It’s the development of his reputation as a musician and a collaborator that is important.</p>

<p>Given the relative geographic proximity of MSM, Purchase and The New School there historically has been quite a bit of cross pollination of faculty, and I’d wager some students as well. I don’t know if you could legitimately qualify one network as stronger. The closer you get to the top, the smaller the circle becomes.</p>

<p>MSM is a true conservatory, Purchase a conservatory within a state u. They are both highly competitive programs. If by “friends at Purchase” means that he nows students there in non-music disciplines, it may afford him an easy break from a music 24/7 environment, as would TNS. Whether he needs or wants this is really a function of his own make-up and psyche. Some want it, some don’t.</p>

<p>As for potentially being one of the lower level players at MSM, my experience is that even the best musicians only get better when surrounded by greater talent. Unless you are at the very top of the food chain, the common wisdom seems to be put yourself in a position to stretch yourself.</p>

<p>Regards non-music academics, many are underwhelmed by the academic offerings within the conservatory curriculum. I’d imagine the New School would afford better options for a broader range of elective options, but I’m not really familiar enough with TNS to comment
on how easy it is to take classes across the different schools. SUNY Purchase has a few detractors on the academics but you will find similar comments about most state institutions. Purchase has also been labeled as a suitcase school, and the campus has been described as dismal. From what I’ve seen, it does not apply to the performance facilities. You may also find more general Purchase detail here [SUNY</a> College at Purchase - College Confidential](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/suny-college-purchase/]SUNY”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/suny-college-purchase/) beyond what exists within the music forum.</p>

<p>For some, the experience of being in NYC trumps all. Purchase is but a short train ride away, which may be the best of both worlds, having to schlep a bass notwithstanding.</p>

<p>Good luck. Hopefully some of the posters with jazz experience will chime in.</p>

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<p>Bassdad writes: </p>

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<p>So true, but I would emphasize how important it is to see what opportunities, including extra-curricular opportunities, the school and the area around the school provides for performance, networking, development of entrepreneurial and business skills, etc. </p>

<p>Bassdad also points out that it’s good to be lower on the food chain, as it were, to be surrounded by more developed players in order to have opportunities to stretch oneself. Also very true!</p>

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<p>wrong dad. We can be easily confused.</p>

<p>or confusing.</p>

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<p>Sorry, Violadad!</p>

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<p>He’s the one with the beard. At least he was. But then, so was I.</p>

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<p>Thanks, all, for your insights. Really very helpful. Keep them coming (excepting those about facial hair).</p>

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<p>I happen to agree with violadad on the sentiments expressed above. </p>

<p>PS, The beard is still here and likely to remain for a while. My wife has never seen my chin, and we’ve known each other for 29 years.</p>

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<p>Mine comes on and off, on a somewhat serendipitous schedule. Depends on the Farmers Almanac. Starts at Thanksgiving, comes off at Easter, but it’s not an annual occurrence.</p>

<p>The mustache stays. My wife whom I have known for 35 years has yet to see the skin betwixt nose and upper lip.</p>

<p>She may shave it when she puts me in the box. Otherwise, it’s mine (In Smeagle like voice),</p>

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<p>Getting back to colleges (and not beards), I think one of the most important things you can do is visit the schools and see how well you fit into the environment. Sometimes when you visit a school, you might just feel a connection. I know a lot of people from MSM, and I go to Purchase, and I think it’s just a matter of what you’re looking for.</p>

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<p>I agree with Sopranorose. There is no substitute for visiting the school, talking to students, absorbing the atmosphere.</p>

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<p>My S applied and was accepted to Temple (Boyer) and William Paterson, and MSM BM Jazz Performance-Trombone. Based on the things he originally told me he was looking for in a college, I thought Temple and WPU were better fits for him. I tried to encourage him to apply to Purchase and New School, and even Berklee for the same reasons, but he refused.
Once he was invited to Grammy band, (which meant he was accepted to MSM and New School), I think he applied to the others only because he knew we couldn’t afford MSM without a substantial scholarship. His heart was set on attending MSM after Grammy Band (directed by Justin DiCiccio Dean of Jazz Studies at MSM). Tuesday he recieved a full tuition scholarship from MSM, which removed cost from the decision equation, and the wind out of my arguments for other schools.
Besides the money, in the end I think MSM will be a good fit for him because he loves learning about music(theory, history, transposing, composition, world music, etc) almost as much as he loves playing it. Jazz is his first love, but he has played classical trombone in our local youth symphony for 6 years, and can continue in the Jazz Philharmonic at MSM. I also get the sense the study of music at MSM is likely to be more “cerebral” and scholarly (as music study goes). I don’t think he would get bored or burned out; I think he will find it stimulating.
Since he didn’t have to audition, MSM is the only school he applied to that he HASN’T visited. He even visited Julliard in 11th grade-and didn’t like it! But I still think he has a good feel for the place; he has met several of the MSM teachers, knows some current and former students, and is familiar with the MSM/Columbia/Barnard area. I guess for him the level of study, caliber of students and teachers (Bonilla, Gordon, Mosca), school reputation, location (location, location), opportunity to network and opportunity for total immersion in music at MSM trumps the pursuit of his other interests, extra-curriculars, friends in other majors, a sprawling campus and the total college experience for him.</p>

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<p>Our older daughter loved, loved MSM but even with merit scholarship, we could not afford it. If you haven’t visited, visit asap: the vibe of the place is wonderful. The head of MSM greeted us enthusiastically and invited us to come in for a few minutes to listen to the jazz orchestra, which was wonderful.</p>

<p>We also looked at Mannes and Purchase (and Juilliard). Our daughter wanted to be in a city, not on an obvious campus. </p>

<p>But one of her best teachers went to Purchase, and then went on to get his DMA (or maybe PhD, I forget) at Brandeis and has had a career in playing, composing and teaching that has been very satisfying.</p>

<p>It really depends on what your son wants, his personality, what type of environment he wants- and, as others have said, what teachers are available where (and what you can afford!).</p>

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<p>For sure SUNY Purchase probably has more punk bands and entertainment options of that variety than MSM probably has. SUNY Purchase has a student newspaper called “The Brick” that you can browse online for details on the current activities on campus. I would try to visit there for a day to attend some classes and talk to people. Then try to do the same at the other two locations as being in Mahattan they will feel very different from Purchase. All depends how important those other music avenues are to him in the end.</p>

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<p>Congratulations to you and your son on his admissions and scholarship offer from MSM. Maybe he and my son will wind up together in the incoming freshman class. It does sound like a good place for him, and it also sounds like he’s sure it’s what he wants. My son also tends to be decisive and to know his mind; ultimately, I’m expecting that when he’s done some more research and school visits, he won’t have too much difficulty deciding. I think I might be more anxious about the decision process than he.</p>