<p>What are the different cultures at the three NY conservatories? How do they compare? For example, is one more low-key? One more focused on contemporary music?
Just curious and looking for some thoughtful opinions -- which this forum always provides!</p>
<p>I don’t know anything about classical music. But I do know that for Jazz Julliard is considered to be pretty up-tight. My son didn’t apply to Julliard because his private teacher didn’t include it in the list and I trusted his opinion about where to apply. He did apply to MSM and after he was admitted I was talking with the guy whose studio he was admitted to and that guy was very negative about Julliard. MSM is uptown and in the Columbia University Neighborhood. Julliard is in the center of Manhattan.</p>
<p>Lastbird, can you remind us of your son/daughter’s age, instrument, (and if jazz or classical) and if s/he is applying for undergrad or grad? Then we could focus our answers better. :D</p>
<p>Sure – D is applying to college this year (senior in HS), instrument is classical piano, undergrad. Thank you!</p>
<p>My sense is that Mannes has a very high bar for piano admissions. I know of a student who made the Curtis finals, got a full scholarship to NEC, and did not pass the pre-screen for piano at Mannes. </p>
<p>As for atmosphere, Juilliard is not at all low-key, and definitely not in instruments like violin and piano. It’s a high-strung place (notice how all of our metaphors are music-related!) MSM is more relaxed, a wider range in terms of the talent spectrum, as well. Mannes, from what I am told, is not great in terms of dorm life (the dorms are not on-campus.) But, dorm life at Juilliard has its ups-and-downs (note, elevator metaphor, appropriate for a high-rise dorm.)</p>
<p>Studying piano in New York city at any of the conservatories you mention is not going to be “low-key”–all three are very competitive environments for pianists. As glassharmonica commented on Juilliard and Mannes, I’ll just weigh in with MSM where my best friend took her BM and MM on piano–much depends on the studio. There is a pecking order of studios, and a pecking order within studios, and where your daughter fits in would affect her experience rather significantly, both in terms of feeling some immunity to the competitive edginess and also in terms of availability of opportunities and mentoring.</p>
<p>CUNY Brooklyn College has a conservatory and CUNY Queens College also has the Aaron Copland School of Music so there are a couple of other conservatory options in the city, and I’d have to assume that because these two schools are a little lower profile than the aforementioned ones, they’re probably a bit more low-key.</p>
<p>“Low-key” is not a requirement and was no doubt a poor choice of terms. I was just trying to throw out some ideas on how one might compare and contrast the schools. Any info. is helpful. I realize that piano will be extremely competitive.
Glassharmonica, that’s crazy that you know someone that made it into the Curtis finals but didn’t pass Mannes prescreening! I had the idea that it might be less competitive to get into. And the information about dorm life is interesting. I enjoy your music-related metaphors!</p>
<p>I’m presently a composition undergrad student at Mannes and would be more than willing to answer any questions you may have about the school or regarding life in the city in general.</p>
<p>To give a small profile about the school: Mannes is the smallest of the three conservatories in the city, with a student body of less than 300, consisting of both undergraduate and graduate students, and for this reason the school is incredibly supportive and nurturing to its student. The school is also known for its intensive and rigorous aural skills and music theory program (collectively known as “techniques of music” at the school); all students receive four years of ear training and music dictation (offered as separate courses), music theory (both tonal and post-tonal), and Schenkerian analysis. Pianists, along with composers, conductors, and theory students, also receive education in keyboard harmony, tonal composition, and additional Schenkerian analysis.</p>
<p>As far as the piano program is concerned, my knowledge is somewhat limited but I know it is as a whole very strong. The faculty include Richard Goode, Vladimir Feltsman, and Victor Rosenbaum, among other high-profile names. The students themselves are extremely talented. </p>
<p>Just to address one particular comment in this thread:</p>
<p>
Mannes is a daughter institution of The New School, and thus all housing is managed by the larger university. Most Mannes students, if they choose to dorm, reside in the [20th</a> St Residence Hall](<a href=“http://www.newschool.edu/studentservices/housing/subpage.aspx?id=31952]20th”>http://www.newschool.edu/studentservices/housing/subpage.aspx?id=31952) in Chelsea, which is about a 20-minute commute via the subway between 20th and 8th and Mannes (via the 1 line, station at 18th and 7th).</p>
<p>Student housing is not a popular option for Mannes students since it can be exorbitantly expensive most students (usually third- and fourth-year undergraduates and masters’ students) opt to rent apartments in neighborhoods uptown. Personally, I think it’s a blessing that Mannes does not require its undergraduate students to live in the dorms during any point of their studies, but it is understandable if you would want your son/daughter to live in a dormitory environment. Being a dormitory in New York City, 20th St is a bit crowded, but it does ultimately provide a warm environment for its residents, and given that it is the residence hall of choice for students of both Mannes and The New School for Jazz, your son/daughter will be surrounded by plenty of supportive musicians.</p>
<p>You should also know that Mannes has more of a graduate student focus, with 2/3 of the population being grad students. That doesn’t mean that it is a bad choice for undergrads, but you should be aware of that.</p>
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<p>The overall program at Mannes is designed as a four-year track. While graduate students of any instrument/concentration who enter the school are typically required to place into a sufficiently-advanced level (e.g. ear training year three) and some classes (Theory and Analysis as examples) are divided between graduates and undergraduates, the curriculum is largely uniform and the syllabi of classes that are divided identical. Some techniques of music courses, such as Ear Training, Dictation, and Keyboard Harmony, are jointly taken by undergraduates and graduates. So, while it is true that there is a large graduate population at Mannes that may make up the majority (statistics aren’t readily accessible so I’m not able to certify that claim), I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s more tailored toward them— the core education is pretty equal across the board.</p>
<p>The rule for conservatories is so very simple:</p>
<p>You study with the teacher, not with the school. </p>
<p>In other words, if your teacher-of-choice is at Juilliard, you go to Juilliard. If s/he’s at Mannes, Mannes it is. Same for MSM.</p>
<p>Really, it couldn’t be simpler.</p>
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<p>I would call this approach over-simplified.</p>
<p>I agree that it is oversimplified. Yes, the teacher is important - but one’s peer group is also crucial and a huge part of the student experience both during the school years, and for all the years after, because of the friendships, connections, and opportunities made.</p>
<p>And has been mentioned numerous times here, teachers move or retire or quit. You need to be comfortable with the rest of the school, too.</p>
<p>I am not oversimplifying. I am clarifying</p>
<p>A conservatory is a trade school. Its purpose is to prepare you to get a job. If your teacher leaves the conservatory, you either follow him/her or you find another teacher who may or may not teach at that conservatory. </p>
<p>I cannot stress this enough, and I speak from experience here: You select a conservatory based on the teacher, not the “student experience”…or whatever. It is the teacher who will enable you to build the skill set you need to land a job. Period. </p>
<p>If you want to have a career in music, that most competitive of professions, you must be focused. Above all else, focused. Your most life-shaping experiences will take occur when you are alone in your practice room, a place where you will spend far more time than any other single place.</p>
<p>Student experience won’t count for beans when you are behind an audition curtain competing against 100 of the best in the world for a section cello opening in the Boston Symphony, or whatever. No, the thing that will matter will be those thousands of hours you spent, alone, in your practice room, refining your craft…with your teacher as your guide.</p>
<p>Your teacher. Not your conservatory. Not the neighborhood. Not the student life. </p>
<p>Stay focused.</p>
<p>Addendum:</p>
<p>Those interested in the subject might wish to read this article. What role did “friendships and connections” play in the lives of the recent Eastman graduates?</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.bostonmagazine.com/articles/2012/06/boston-symphony-orchestra-audition/[/url]”>http://www.bostonmagazine.com/articles/2012/06/boston-symphony-orchestra-audition/</a></p>
<p>If you had frequented this thread you may have noticed that the discussion on the paramount importance of a good teacher has been a constant here. And you would have already read the article which you attached. It was discussed at great length. Speaking from experience, the culture of the school does matter. The connections matter, the experience in ensembles matters, roles given in operas matter, exposure to good masterclasses matter,the amount of debt you might encur matters and interaction with the music community at large all matter. The experience at school does count for something.</p>
<p>Well, speaking from more experience then you can probably imagine, all those things matter BUT they are entirely subordinate to the teacher issue (well, with the exception of finances, of course.) Pick the right teacher, the rest falls into place. </p>
<p>In other words, it’s not Juilliard vs Curtis vs NEC, it’s Sally Thomas vs Ida Kavafian vs Miriam Fried (to name violin pedagogues at the respective institutions). Which one of these individuals do you want to study with? Which one of these teachers wants to take you on? THAT is the question. </p>
<p>If you really have experience, you agree. If you don’t, then you don’t know what you’re talking about. Few things in life are that simple; this is.</p>
<p>Ok. That’s all I have to say here. Bye</p>
<p>Tortoise, what don’t you understand about the words “paramount importance”? </p>
<p>“Which one of these individuals do you want to study with? Which one of these teachers wants to take you on? THAT is the question.”</p>
<p>No, in point of fact, that was NOT the OP’s question.</p>
<p>In this forum we are open to discuss more than one aspect of music education. </p>
<p>And by the way, do you know what matters on this particular forum?
Civility and open discussion.</p>
<p>To quote you:" Period."</p>