<p>I'm looking for any MSN (specifically NP) programs that currently don't require any work experience. Anybody know of any?</p>
<p>You might want to check out Thomas Jefferson University in Philadelphia. They offer a number of MSN NP Programs and do not at least list work experience as a requirement to apply on their website. Good luck.</p>
<p>There are many graduate school programs on line now. Here is a sample of what Pitt currently offers, but Pitt stressed at their open house last week, it will probably take a DNP to become a NP for anyone not currently enrolled in the MS NP track by 2013. Check it out:</p>
<p>[Pitt</a> Online | University of Pittsburgh](<a href=“http://www.online.pitt.edu/nursing/nursing-dnp.php]Pitt”>http://www.online.pitt.edu/nursing/nursing-dnp.php)</p>
<p>marybee333:</p>
<p>Yep, my school is currently making that switch to DNP too. Probably won’t work for me since I won’t be applying to grad school until at least 2014. One year of BSN school left!</p>
<p>Actually Pitt is not completely accurate in the comments relayed by marybee333 above that were reportedly expressed in their open house. Both primary NP Certification organizations have announced that they are in the process of adopting the APRN Consensus Model Recommendations which will result in some NP title changes with resultant changes in the exams to reflect the title changes. The APRN Consensus Model only requires a Graduate Degree in Nursing with certain course requirements and a few other things. I quote from the current ANCC website “ANCC currently requires candidates to complete graduate work, which may include a master’s, postgraduate certificate, or doctorate. While certification eligibility can change, ANCC has no plans to require a DNP at this time”. So obviously Pitt’s position that unless a student is in an MSN-NP Program by this year that they will have to obtain a DNP in order to become eligible to take the NP certification exam is grossly inaccurate and misleading (not to say a bit self-serving). While certainly this change may occur in the future I suspect some MSN-NP programs will still be available for a few more years in decreasing numbers (but they are being phased out). As long as a student gets into one while they are still in existence I do believe they will still remain eligible to take the NP certification exam once they complete the degree. However the competition for these fewer and fewer remaining MSN-NP slots is going to be intense. Even last year when our D applied to the MSN-FNP Program at the Univ. of Miami there were over 200 applicants for 20 slots (an applicant success rate of less than 10%).</p>
<p>MWallenmd-From what they told us, they have mostly moved over to the DNP model which you can take right after BSN degree and have only 3 MSN specialties left. Clinical Nurse Leader, Nursing Informatics, and Administration. They spent an entire hour reviewing their graduate programs. Because of our PMs about this very subject, I was surprised they had already moved to this progression, since you thought these changes were not yet written in stone. My H just read an article on the changes in reimbursement rates for doctors and NPs due to health care reform that stated both would be reimbursed at the same rate and that they are now referred to as Primary Care Providers (vs Physicians). If they are going to need all of these PCPs for health care, I am not sure how the DNP program will alleviate the supposed shortage of affordable health care providers that is supposedly an issue. I guess time will tell. I appreciate your insights and information. Pitt also spoke of needings DNPs and PhDs due to lack of professors and instructors for nursing schools. Pitt prides itself on having a very high percent of faculty with terminal degrees. I just wonder if those same faculty are teaching Pitt nurses or if they are heavily involved in research since they also boasted they are #5 in NIH funding in the country. I am sure you know much more about all of this as I am just a mom trying to learn and absorb all of this, to just make a decision on a BSN program, so thanks for clarifying, if I mistakenly relayed anything that was not correct.</p>
<p>So, I’m confused. The current DNP program at my school (and all of the other schools that I have looked at) require a MSN degree to be obtained before you can event apply to the DNP program, even with a BSN. As MSNs are phased out, will the DNP application requirements change as well?</p>
<p>southbound1- Hopefully Mwallenmd will check back in soon and help us. I think with changes to nursing programs which have been proposed, but are not yet in effect, schools are trying to position themselves for changes which seem to be coming. This is very confusing to many of us and it seems like every school is trying to be in the right position if and when the time comes. Pitt spent an entire hour addressing this subject to accepted students who don’t even have a BSN yet, so it was important enough for them to take the time to share where their program is headed. MWallenMD is a great help to us here on CC and I am sure will respond.</p>
<p>southbound1:
The simple answer to your question is yes. Some DNP Programs now (i.e. Pitt) take BSN students right into the DNP Program. AS part of the Program you have to take the courses you previously would have had to taken to get the MSN and then add the additional courses to obtain the DNP (with some degree of variability).</p>
<p>But I can even confuse you a bit further. Most, if not all, State Nursing Boards that license/register NP’s, in addition to passing the NP certification exam, specifically require the applicant to have a MSN-NP degree. So if you just have a DNP without the formal MSN degree you would not meet the rigid requirements to become a licensed NP (bizarre but true). So either each state must change its specific licensing requirements to allow a DNP degree or DNP Programs must also give their grads, at least on paper, an MSN Degree. Good luck on getting 50 State Boards for anything to all make these types of changes in a uniform manner in a reasonable time frame. This is just another factor that impedes the implementation of the movement to require a DNP in order to become an NP. Our D wrote a 25 page Nursing Grad school research paper on the pro’s and con’s of making this change. I obviously can’t provide all the content of the paper here. Sorry to confuse you further.</p>
<p>I suggest to look at allnurses.com as they have more information there. Long story short, the DNP will likely never be a true legislated requirement, the same way that BSN never became the base degree required for RN. </p>
<p>I’m currently in a BSN program and planning to apply to OHSU, UND, Case Western, Vanderbilt and Yale for NP-MSN (PMHNP) programs upon graduating, without gaining work experience. Boston College, UT-Austin and many other schools offer MSNs and do not require work experience (though some do recommend it).</p>
<p>Some schools that have switched to DNP have begun switching back to MSN, or at least offering it anew. I’m only a BSN student, but it seems to me that the key reason so many colleges are switching from MSN to DNP is their pocket books. Just my $0.02. Best of luck in your search.</p>
<p>Only to share a bit more on DNP tracks for those interested, and not to defend schools with a DNP and/or PhD track, and limited MSN tracks, but part of the reason they claimed they were headed in this direction is to have enough qualified nursing professors, so that they could accept more students into their programs. Lack of qualified nursing instructors/profs is another reason school have such limited spaces in BSN and graduate level nursing programs. Ironically, they even spoke about criticism of nursing professors who are “book smart”, but haven’t had any real life work experience to share with students, which IMHO, seems essential for teaching nurses. Another discussion which took place was the advantage of getting the education “out of the way” while you can do it, “because life happens”. I would hope that students who becomes nurses are life long learners, no matter what their degree.</p>
<p>I totally agree with you, Marybee, about nurses hopefully being life long learners regardless of academic track. </p>
<p>My school has an early-entry PhD track for BSN students who want to become professors. Maybe these kinds of programs help alleviate the shortage of faculty, but also contribute to the problem of faculty that haven’t had much experience in the field? Though the nursing field is unique in generally expecting students to get a bachelor’s, work for a few years, then go back for a 5-6 year PhD. That’s a whole lot of years before being done with school, and I can see how life could get in the way (especially since people in health care have a tendency to have kids).</p>
<p>Mwallenmd:</p>
<p>No confusion here. That makes total sense, and also explains why plenty of schools are hanging onto their MSN programs and havent changed completely over to DNP yet. All of the prospective grad schools that I have looked at have kept their MSN and just added the DNP option, perhaps so they will be prepared if/when the change occurs. I am hopeful that the grad schools that I am interested in will still have their MSN programs in 2015.</p>
<p>futurepmhnp:</p>
<p>Vanderbilt is also on my list for prospective grad schools. I am looking at schools that are primarily in the southeast just because that’s where I’m from and most comfortable living/working. Are you going for FNP or a different concentration?</p>
<p>At Penn Preview days two weeks ago, we asked about upcoming Doctorate requirements for the NP. We are enthusiastic about this for all of reasons each of us has shared together on CC. We were told that the momentum has ebbed a bit on this, that the MS-level NP programs are thriving at Penn, and will be positioned for growth–and this was for the reasons stated above.<br>
One more thought: I simply can’t abide be the comment that U-Pitt is self-serving. I have never met a more wonderful group of staff than those at Pitt.</p>
<p>cecilturtle:
You know me better than that. I believe you are taking my comment completely out of context. I was referring specifically to the comments reportedly made by Pitt staff at by the BSN Open House where they reportedly stated that it will probably take a DNP to become a NP for anyone not currently enrolled in the MS NP track by 2013. This was an extremely misleading and inaccurate statement for them to make as there is no hard evidence to support it, as I noted in my post. I certainly did not mean to imply that Pitt Nursing overall was “self serving”. The Nursing Program and staff at Pitt are excellent. What you heard at Penn was a carbon copy of exactly what our D was told last year when she was accepted to the MSN-FHNP Program at Penn. Just wanted to clear this little misunderstanding up.</p>
<p>MWAllen, you’re right. Forgive me for being so silly. I should not have made such a kneejerk response.
As always, I cannot thank you, Aglages, the entire family of CC Nursing experts, enough for your generous help throughout the years.
The research you and your daughter have done is phenomenal.</p>
<p>southbound1, I’m applying for the mental health specialty. I’ve heard really good things about Vanderbilt. :)</p>
<p>Just because a grad program doesn’t require work experience, doesn’t mean you should go right to grad school. First, you will do better in grad school and understand the material better with some work experience. Second, you hopefully will find an employer who may be willing to subsidize your grad school costs if you go part-time while you work.</p>
<p>^ Yeah, that definitely makes sense. I’m only a sophomore so I do have a while to decide whether I want to go directly into graduate school. In the mental health NP role, I’ve heard that RN experience helps but is also very different from NP. At the same time, I suppose a year of work would just be good maturation before taking on the role of an NP, which comes with a lot of responsibility.</p>
<p>I won’t be completely lacking in work experience, but I doubt it will be longer than 6 months to one year. This will be mostly to pay off some of my smaller student loans and save money so that I will be able to relocate. (I am not planning to go to grad school in the state that I currently live in.) I do understand your point, but I am also certain that this option is right for me.</p>