<p>Is there such a thing or does everyone just rely on their local voice, dance and drama coach/teacher for preparation? I am beginning to realize that no matter how much I read posts on cc, I cannot adequately prepare my child for the audition process and it seems that a killer audition is what counts in the admission process.</p>
<p>jacksdad raises in interesting question; something I've been pondering for over a year now: has this become a major where the kids can't get into top BFA programs anymore without mega-bucks spent on intense coaching and pricy pre-college programs? Frankly, I wasn't aware of all of those possiblilities (or the necessity) for this type of training when my d was going thru the audition process 2 years ago and ignorance WAS bliss in retrospect. She did have a vocal coach and her public high school has a great drama program, so we figured we were "good to go". </p>
<p>I don't know, I wonder if it has ALWAYS been this uber-competive or if it is getting exponentially more so each year. It's hard not to notice that many of the kids with multiple acceptances to very well-regarded schools are the same ones who have had lots of private training and/or attended pre-college programs. Are these BFA programs nowadays still looking for raw, trainable talent or are they "really" looking for an already finished product? I have to wonder.....</p>
<p>Let me also say (before my comments start a riot) that I am in no way criticizing anyone who has hired multiple coaches, gone to expensive programs, etc. To them I say "congratulations" and "well done". I am just wondering, has this become "the norm" or can kids still get acceptances relying on their "local" resources?</p>
<p>And really, I guess this question is most directed at the class which is just finishing the audition process (they've just climbed out of the trenches and know what they faced) as advice for the newbies coming up.</p>
<p>As one whose D didn't get into any BFA programs, I do think that in most instances one needs to have some pretty intense coaching and summer program participation to stand a chance of being accepted in most of these programs. And even that isn't a guarantee. Demographics is also working against many of these kids: there are more and more of them competing for a limited number of slots. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>my son announced to me last August that he thought it would be "cool to go to a BFA program in MT" and that he was going to try to transfer from his liberal arts college into one. I said "sure honey, sounds like a great idea..have fun and let me know if you want me to proof your essays." He had never had a voice, dance or acting lesson. Neither one of us had any idea of what a monologue was. </p>
<p>Then I discovered that he was supposed to do auditions. I figured I had better find out what "BFA" meant. I happened upon CC and sent SoozieVT a note to ask her if there was a way to get a sense of whether or not a kid had enough talent to apply to MT school ... because I had seen my son in a couple of shows and he looked ok to me, but I had no way to guess at his level of talent, since I had never been to a play or musical before going to his. She was nice enough NOT to write back "what are you THINKING!?", but she did mention that it would be a "pretty competitive process" and that I might want to "think about looking into an audition coach". Thank goodness I did that, because without one, my son would have been even more like Daniel in the lions' den than he was!</p>
<p>These MT kids are specialized and incredibly focused! Most of them live musical theatre and have done so since they were very young. Looking back on this year...and now that I realize the pedigree of the kids my son was competing against for a spot...I must say that if I had had any idea of what I was supporting him in trying to do...I don't think I would have agreed to let him try it! The only analogy I can think of is telling your kid...."sure honey, you seem to enjoy shooting hoops, go ask that Michael Jordan guy if you can join his team so you can learn how to play."</p>
<p>Needless to say, it has been one heck of a year! My son was rejected at some of the top schools (duh!) but he also got into a few. He is still waiting on a some (since he is a transfer... acceptances and rejections come late). It seems like there are a few programs that will only take the proven performers...and then there are some really good places that are more open to taking a risk on a kid who has potential but not much training. These programs also (to me) seem a little more oriented to educating the whole kid, rather than focusing on just what he or she does on the stage.</p>
<p>From what I can tell after reading this board for a while, the "average" kid applying to a BFA program has been doing this since he or she was six, has been in at least two productions every high school year, has gone to MT camp or a college's summer MT program one or more times and has had private voice, dance and acting coaching for at least 2 years...oh yes...and has a parent who has been supporting him or her in MT (taking him/her to lessons, finding the programs, volunteering for stage help, taking him or her to shows, etc) since he or she was 10. The intensity of their commitment and the level of support required from parents to help them succeed is amazing. </p>
<p>My advice? GET THE AUDITION COACH, sign your child up for a summer program that will help with monologue and song choice and ask a few kids from this board if they will share their resume with you or your child (maybe use the acceptance list and send PMs?)...I think that is the best way to see how your child's experience stacks up against his or her competition, and it may help you figure out what schools would be the best match. While it is probably worth trying no matter what, you don't want to feel that you have sent your child out to play in traffic without warning him or her that he or she might get hurt (trust me as a parent who knows: when those rejections start coming in, you do not want to be saying to yourself "how could I have done this to him?"...or even "how could I have encouraged him to do this to himself?")</p>
<p>As I read the postings on this board, I have to admit... I have never seen parents who worked so hard to support their children in pursuing their goals. I have been so impressed by the determination and the fortitude of the kids who have posted here. Giving something 100% effort... coping with rejection. These kids are amazing!</p>
<p>After reading vicarious' post I realize that I was somewhat disingenuous when mentioning my d's background. I didn't mean to make it sound as if she had "just fallen off the turnip truck", and had no training or experience. Over the years there were ballet and acting class after school (once a week and never concurrently), until she got older and busier; and one or two week local performing arts camps in the summer; some community theatre and a p/t job in entertainment dept. at a local venue in high school. She definately had training and experience, as probably the majority of these kids pursuing MT do. And yep, I was one of those crazy moms driving her kid all over town, until she got old enough to do it herself! :)
What she didn't have, was what jacksdad initially brought up, specific MT BFA audition coaching. And I'm just wondering, now, two years later, if it will be possible for the kids coming up to achieve the desired outcome w/o a BFA coach.
So far, I think I'm hearing, "NO"!</p>
<p>If you had a child who was a baseball player and wanted to play at the college level, would you find him a pitching coach? It's very similar. Most of the schools listed on the first page of this thread auditioned anywhere from 200-500 kids this year. Some auditioned as many as 800-1200. Other than Boston Conservatory, they all strive for a class of about 15 and most make offers to about 20-25.
We opted for private coaching. Did it help? It's hard to know, but at least we know that we did everything we could possibly do to help our D realize her dream. It was worth every penny.
If you are trying to find a coach, ask the following questions:</p>
<ol>
<li>How many students have they coached in the BFA MT audition process? </li>
<li>How many of his/her students were actually accepted into programs? </li>
</ol>
<p>There is a big difference between a voice teacher and a voice coach. A voice teacher helps the student improve her/his actual singing. They teach them to sing correctly without hurting their voices. A voice coach is a person who is an expert at helping students choose songs that best showcase their voice and how to act the songs. A good vocal coach has and incredible knowledge songs done on Broadway and off Broadway. She is constantly looking for new material and knows which songs are over used. She should know all about the "Do not use" lists and should not be intimidated by these lists. Look up Coach C here on cc and give her a call. She worked with my D over the computer! It was very helpful.</p>
<p>This is an interesting thread and made me thnk about what we have done for our son and how much we have spent. I don't think it's a lot compared to some other families, and he was quite successful getting into straight acting BFA programs.
He took acting lessons for several years but only through the local recreation department - kind of like doing rec league soccer, not too expensive. He took voice lessons off and on for several years. He never had private acting or voice coaches. He attended only one summer program, and that was the Pennsylvania Governors School for the Arts, which was free. Other summers he worked for a local summer stock theater, both acting and behind the scenes, and actually got paid (not a lot, but it helped.) Other than that, he did school and youth theater shows that only cost gas money to get there. So he was certainly driven and we had to support him, but I think it is possible to get to the necessary level without spending a lot of money. It probably depends where you live, what kinds of opportunities you can find. I'm sure it's very different for each potential actor.</p>
<p>I forgot to mention one of the most important - his junior and senior years, he attended a half day magnet arts program. This was a public school, not private. Most home schools who sent kids there paid the tutition, although our home school, which has little interest in the arts, did not. Still, it was not high.
So, in general, I guess my son had quite a bit of training before auditioning, but it did not cost a lot. He was also quite driven, as I realize most of these kids pursuing a BFA are, and made the most of whatever opportunities came his way.</p>
<p>Just to offer up a slightly different take on this--</p>
<p>My S most certainly did not have an acting coach, audition coach or whatever. There is no way we could have afforded it. (Not to say he couldn't have benefited. We just couldn't afford any of that.) He goes to a regular public high school (the same high school Aaron Lazar graduated from, coincidentally--well, we do have this fabulous choir program, one of the top five in the nation). He did township summer theatre ($200). He did the school plays/musicals, and yes the drama program at our public school is excellent - he won a Bucks County Playhouse Actor's award, among other awards, through the public school productions - but that's all he did. Most recently he has branched out into semi-professional theatre, and is doing Much Ado About Nothing (for pay!) and will be doing mystery dinner theatre (also for pay!)</p>
<p>He has had about 10 private voice lessons total from an excellent instructor (this was all I could afford) and about the same number of private acting lessons. That's it. And he was admitted to several prestigious programs. Now, it's true that he's been exposed the Broadway theatre, opera and plays since he's been small, so he does know the level of expectation. But categorically, he did not have a coach, magnet school, expensive private camps, and so on. That's not to say they wouldn't have benefited him. Clearly they would have. But I guess what I want to say is that you can succeed if you're not super-rich, and if you're not super rich, you don't have to break the bank. I personally think what's more important than all these things - and again, I'm not knocking them; I mean, if you can afford them, why not? - but what's more important is self-awareness, drive and discipline (and talent, but that goes without saying, and so many kids are talented). And self awareness, drive and discipline won't come from expensive private anything--these qualities only come from within.</p>
<p>I just want to add a ps--</p>
<p>I was thinking over what I wrote, and I in no way want to imply that your child is somehow lacking in drive or discipline if they didn't have a coach and then didnt' get in. My object in writing was to support those who don't have the money--I do feel that you can pursue your dream and be successful. Yes, it's harder. And yes, you do have to be aware. It helps that I grew up going to Broadway and opera, and have exposed my own children since small--it really really helps to know what's out there. I think the basketball analogy can be taken one step further--no one would think to say, "Sure, son,, you like to shoot some hoops, why don't you now apply to a top basketball college." And why not? Because there's so much more general exposure to the overall expectations of what it means to be a top athlete. Everyone knows you need years of preparation. Whereas, there is much less of that for the acting/theatre world. We see 'celebrity' movie stars but really have no idea how much preparation went into becoming a star ( and admittedly in some cases, there have been none!). And when it comes to acting/musical theatre--forget about it. THere is very little information out there. My s was also fortunate in having a fabulous public school drama teacher, who's been doing theatre at the school for over 40 years and who won best HS director in NJ recently (this includes private schools and perrforming arts schools).</p>
<p>I have to agree with raphael and pennmom. My s never had coaches or summer programs. He did have private voice for 3 years, one year on a scholarship. He did have two private six week acting sessions and two basic dance corses. He was lucky and went to a public, regular high school with a great repatory theater department, they did 9 + productions a year and the school had a great choir department. He did tons of theater, in school and community, I figure he did over 20 musicals and plays during his 4 high school years. Then of course there is the usual state and solo competions. What I always noticed about him was how hard he worked, he sang ALL the time, pracitced his lines and danced. When he had to learn to tap, he got some basics from some of the trained kids then went into the garage and practiced and practiced. So I guess what I'm saying is when he started his college auditions he didn't have 10 years of continual training, he got some, fairly high quality, and he worked very hard. The always announced the next season at the end of the school year and over the summer he learned all of the songs and as much about the musicals as possible, and had audition songs selected and learned so when school started he was ready to go. So I think a kid can do this with some talent and a lot of hard work.</p>
<p>I want to also add that we had NO IDEA of what we were getting into, my s was very underprepared to audtion, his songs were good, but monologues, what to wear how thing were run, NO IDEA. I found this forum about 2 months before he started and I can't tell you what a life saver it has been!</p>
<p>I think that location may be important for the number of activities that some of our kids have. The only money that we've spent over the years for my Ds "training" was for her voice lessons that she's had in high school (with the same teacher). She never attended a summer camp, never had any coaching, never attended a pre-college program, etc. We have four children and wouldn't have felt right about spending that kind of money on one of them. She attends a public high school with a very good choir and theatre program. She literally has known what she wanted to do since she was 5 years old (after seeing her first professional musical she was hooked). She did two years of community theatre (ages 8 to 10), and was recommended by one of those directors for her first professional show at age 10. We are fortunate to live in a very large city so there are a lot of opportunities for performing. Over the years, she has attended open calls at a variety of professional theatres and been lucky enough to have been cast at most of them. She has learned from each of the directors that she has worked with over the years. She has a very strong work ethic and has been told by most of the directors that she has worked with how intuitive she is on stage.
Many of her friends have received professional training over the years (I'm sure some of their parents have spent a small fortune) and I can't see that they have faired any better than she has at their college auditions. I just don't want parents that can't afford professional training for their kids to think it can't been done. A natural talent and hard work can take your kids very far. Besides the voice lessons and the gas, time commuting is the only thing that we've provided (and encouragement!).</p>
<p>what an interesting turn this thread has taken. All of this training is expensive no matter how you try to rationalize it and we all want the best for our kids. My thought in starting this was shear terror at the thought of going in to the audition season without being adequately prepared. I want my son to succeed and spending a little more money now is worth it if we get one acceptance.</p>
<p>Hi, </p>
<pre><code>I agree w/ all that has been said. Training is not a requirement, but it can help, even if it gives you peace of mind and your child a bit more confidence. Good luck!
</code></pre>
<p>I agree with so much that has been written here. But my feeling is, after going through all this, is that depending on the school, you can't going into MT without some solid training. Many of the schools my d looked at were definately looking for strong dancers and evidence of good dance training along with monologues that at the very least indicated that she could be funny, serious, engaging, confident, exude stage presence, take direction etc. Then in terms of singing, she does have some very natural abilities, has been in the school plays, camp productions (actually with very little direction, unfortunately), has been in the chorus, has won some state awards, has had some voice lessons. We did work with a monologue coach for about 6 times. We did end up using a few vocal coaching lessons which I do think is important even if it's just a few and the person is really good. You need someone who can find songs which demonstrate your range and personality and ideally are not overused or just don't show you off. We probably needed one or two more lessons to really find the "perfect" songs especially when you need the 16 bar ballad that's before 1960 and can show off your voice. When all is said and done this is a long, exhausting, competitive, time consuming effort and yes we do it in the hopes of helping our kids "follow their dream" but at the same time when you go into this you really do need to make sure there are some realistic expectations. We've been at many an audition where someone auditioning has said "well I really can't dance" or "I can dance and act but I'm not much of a singer". Well maybe you'll find the right school that doesn't care but there again consider the odds when the odds are already staggering. So my advice: if you got the talent and some good "foundation" training, then get some help even if it's just a bunch of sessions before you audition to "polish" things up or find the monologues and songs that are "right" for you and or some dance lessons too. There's a lot of heartbreak, I think you have to do what you can to improve the odds even if you do this minimally.</p>
<p>Hi Pennmom. Are you by any chance the mother of the son that was featured in a local newspaper recently. By the sound of your posts I think you might be. I read the articles and could definitely relate. We may live very, very close to each other. My daughter auditioned for Tisch in March, but she would be going in as a transfer student. She is currently a student at a community college. Transfers for Tisch, from what I understand, hear very late compared to the other schools. Probably after May 1st. And, the odds are even tougher for transfers. I found your most recent posts about time and money interesting. My daughter almost had to go outside her high school for theater because they only did musicals. She did take two years of voice and dance locally, but she is pretty much straight acting. But she definitely respects and appreciates musical theatre. Tisch is the only BFA acting program she applied to. She has NYU on the brain. We stayed in NYC last summer while she attended the 6 week summer intensive at Strasberg. I know that when she interviewed for and attended Strasberg, they seemed to be more interested in the fact that a student played at least supporting roles and that you have a serious interest in the discipline. In other words, they didn't seem to really care that a student played a lead role in a theatre located in the sticks, as much as they cared about the student being familiar with the amount of commitment and preparation it takes to put on a production. They were also looking for involvement for at least several years, rather than someone just showing up with stars in their eyes. My daughter has done 4 plays in 4 years with lead roles. In between that time she had been taking acting, dancing and singing lessons.</p>
<p>Hi Pennmom. Are you by any chance the mother of the son that was featured in a local newspaper recently. By the sound of your posts I think you might be. I read the articles and could definitely relate. We may live very, very close to each other. My daughter auditioned for Tisch in March, but she would be going in as a transfer student. She is currently a student at a community college. Transfers for Tisch, from what I understand, hear very late compared to the other schools. Probably after May 1st. And, the odds are even tougher for transfers. I found your most recent posts about time and money interesting. My daughter almost had to go outside her high school for theater because they only did musicals. She did take two years of voice and dance locally, but she is pretty much straight acting. But she definitely respects and appreciates musical theatre. Tisch is the only BFA acting program she applied to. She has NYU on the brain. We stayed in NYC last summer while she attended the 6 week summer intensive at Strasberg. I know that when she interviewed for and attended Strasberg, they seemed to be more interested in the fact that a student played at least supporting roles and that you have a serious interest in the discipline. In other words, they didn't seem to really care that a student played a lead role in a theatre located in the sticks, as much as they cared about the student being familiar with the amount of commitment and preparation it takes to put on a production. They were also looking for involvement for at least several years, rather than someone just showing up with stars in their eyes. My daughter has done 4 plays in 4 years with lead roles. In between that time she had been taking acting, dancing and singing lessons.</p>
<p>Our experience is close to that of srw. Public school (non-performing arts and without even a viable theater program but excellent band and choir) Our local Community theater has a children's division and S attended and performed in shows and workshops there (attending with me starting in kindergarten, performing starting in 3rd grade. from Jr High forward some years he did 2 shows per year but soph and jr year only one. This year one but only after auditions were over. He started voice lessons 2 years ago but didn't start dance until this past summer when he made a final decision to pursue MT. He didn't have a formal "acting coach" per se but applied skills he learned over the years.</p>
<p>That being said, in his case I would have to say that there was almost surely a natural inclination we saw manifested early on as far as performing ability.</p>
<p>Most importantly, though, we had ZERO clue what was really involved in all this until we started visiting schools last spring, before he completely decided on MT. Even then we learned very little. I am extremely grateful to the head of Visual and performing arts at our local university. He sat down with us, knowing that there was little chance S would attend there anyway, and really gave us a crash course in what we needed to do and how to go about it. I hope one day we can repay that debt!!!!</p>
<p>In S's case, I think the most important thing has been a steady exposure TO the performing arts. He saw many more shows, straight plays and musicals, adults and kids, than he's ever performed in. He also grew up on a steady diet of cast recordings and videos. I think that can be as important as anything. Learn the craft. Expose yourself to known good stuff (and bad stuff) and study what sorts of things make it good (or bad).</p>
<p>The analogy to athletes is very interesting in many ways. Quite honestly the pro career prospects are probably not that different either, although the athletes get paid better.</p>
<p>The other challenge, whether you get coaches or not, is to try very, very hard to find someone who can help you form a realistic assessment of your child's skills and abilities relative to the schools being targeted. We were lucky in that regard with that local dept head; his voice teacher didn't have a clue nor did the lady who directed the children's theater. And while it's been alluded to a couple of times in posts elsewhere on CC MT, don't EVEN count on your local HS guidance counselor to even have a CLUE what's involved in this field. If you happen to have one that does, go buy a lottery ticket!!! You are just that lucky!. Anyway, if you reach for a school that is unrealistic to that level you are wasting time and money and building in unneccesary rejection.</p>
<p>In summary, I would say a coach may or may not be necessary for skill development. But a coach or someone else to provide that realistic assessment is very important</p>
<p>Also, you should take into consideration the numbers. A male has an exponentially greater chance of getting into a MT program from the get go. Therefore, a university might accept a male that has little training before a girl with little training because there is less competition for the boy.</p>