<p>Hello, I'm new to the site and this is my first post.
I was wondering if it's a good idea to get a BFA in musical theatre along with a minor in Vocal Performance, or doubling majoring in musical theatre and vocal performance?
Good? Bad? Help?</p>
<p>It really depends on what you want to do. Many schools give their MT students classical vocal training. My son who started out as a MT major switched to VP and seriously considered doubling. He has since settled on VP. He goes to OCU and lots of students double major, it usually takes 5 years to accomplish.</p>
<p>Some schools offer a BM degree in vocal performance with a concentration in musical theatre rather than classical voice. NYU (through Steinhardt) is one. Look into Westminster Choir College and University of Miami, too. There are others, as well, but these are the first three that come to mind.</p>
<p>James Madison University offers both a BA with an emphasis in Musical Theatre & a BM with an emphasis in Music Theatre. Students are integrated in many classes and in performances. Students in the BM program follow a similar course of study to the VP students, with additional support courses in Theatre, Musical Theatre Performance, and Dance.</p>
<p>This one walks a fine line. While some schools do make good use of both the MT classes and the VP classes- OCU comes to mind here- usually one end or the other comes up with the shorter end of the straw. In an ideal world, one would have classical vocal training before even looking at a MT major; vocal health is paramount and with the increasingly heavy emphasis on belting (at some auditions now that is all they want to hear!) classical training gives a good platform from which to work.
As uskoolfish mentioned, WCC offers a MT degree and a VP track, but I’m not sure how much cross over there is there ( we know kids in both programs but have never thought to ask that- guess I will now!). My D will be majoring in VP and was lucky enough to find a school that also required Dance and Acting classes, which most straight VP majors do not.
A good resource to consult is Peterson’s Guide to Performing Arts Colleges- all of the info is in one place.</p>
<p>Thank you everyone who responded, but I’m still unsure whether or not I should double major with VP, minor in it, or only get my BFA in MT. I suppose I should just decide depending on the school?
I’m a very strange case because I do not have the voice for belting at all. I’m a classical trained soprano. I sing both arias and musical theatre, and my forte is musicals written for soprano range and classical technique (think The Light in the Piazza, Sweeney Todd, etc…). I’m not the typical musical theatre student nor the typical opera student, but and odd mix of both. I want to be a strong actor with an emphasis on classical singing.
Any futher advice and comments would be greatly appreciated.</p>
<p>The appeal of NYU’s VP major to my daughter is that the vocal training is classically based. The same teachers work with both MT and classical students. D’s repetoire includes classical pieces. My understanding is that beginning with this incoming class, all vocal performance students will take the same classes and will not declare a concentration in their first two years. In junior and senior year a distinction between the two tracks will be made. I am not sure how voice teachers will handle the preference of individual students towards MT or classical repetoire.</p>
<p>All VP students will have dance and acting as a requirement, regardless of their track. BM degrees (which most VP degrees offer) also have a strong music component (theory, aural training, keyboarding, etc.)</p>
<p>D is a soprano, too, with a very similar background to yours. Many of her classmates are similar to her. NYU Steinhardt does not emphasize belting; officially, it is frowned upon and not considered proper technique. Their required song repetoire emphasizes songs before the 1970’s, a time when B’dway had a more classically-based sound.</p>
<p>Although she will always adore MT, my D saw the writing on the wall and went over to opera. She too, has a voice that can sing either, and her senior recital was a mix of arias, art songs and musical theatre pieces. Her temperment is more suited to the opera world, though, so her decision was a sound one.
Sure sounds like Steinhardt would be the placed for the OP to look. It is disturbing to see the increased emphasis on belting, to the exclusion of almost everything else- it’s even more upsetting to see the huge number of young people who are willling to risk their voices for admission to “iffy” programs at well, let’s just say, not top-tier schools. More and more schools are adding MT programs because they are viewed as “cash cows”, and kids get sucked in with promises of “great things to come”. Time and time again, I have tried to help kids and their parents understand that just because they are praised to the heavens by a teacher in high school or have leads in the school musicals, it does NOT mean that they have the talent, voice or “that something” which will make people willing to part with $110 for a seat to watch them. On the contrary, around here (upstate NY) those kids are the ones who have the most difficulty even getting admitted to a decent school, and for some, and college’s MT program. Sadly,this past audition season, I watched a young lady go to Unifieds and audition for 18 schools- not getting into any of them, not even waitlisted! Her family is extremely well-to-do (something which always impresses the faculty at my D’s private school) and the girl was “courted” by the music/theatre teachers (Both of them!) at school. They pretended to be amazed when said girl made it to the middle of April without an acceptance! The theatre teacher, herself a graduate in MT from one of the lowest-ranked state colleges somehow persuaded her alma mater to admit the girl under “special consideration”! Sure, it’s an awful program at a terrible college, but what does something like that say to the kids who went through the process and took their chances on admission? This was a kid who based her desire to be an MT major on such sterling shows as “Spring Awakening” and “Wicked”, neither of which are likely to go down in history as “Classics”. Her voice was so bad that her voice teacher forced her to withdraw from a well-known vocal competition because he didn’t want his name attached, no technique at all, just scream-belting. She takes direction poorly, always falling back on the fact that “Well, the teachers at school think I’m great!”.At a recent audition call for high school and college students ( a musical to be performed later in the summer), those attending were told, “If you won’t belt, please leave now”! I know several young people in the show, and each and every one has a marginal voice and each is willing to do anything to their voice in order to “be in a show”. So sad. I despaired for the entire profesion until I just read uskoolfish’s posts (thanks, by the way!). It’s great to know that there are programs who emphasize proper training and who are using the older shows to further that training. But what is to be done about the composers who continue to turn out shows, hoping to appeal to the younger audiences, which feature nothing but screaming loud enough to be heard over the pit? OK, I’ll get down from my soapbox now!
As for the OP, I would say to investigate NYU and look for similar programs or consider the switch to a straight VP major(assuming that opera interests you). That field could sure use more “singing actresses” - think Natalie Dessay- rather than the old school Park-and-Bark singers.</p>
<p>Loved your “soap box,” Mezzo’s Mama! Actually, Mark Madama, Asst. Dir of MT at UMich commented recently about the number of young women they had been hearing at auditions with vocal damage at such a young age. He was grateful for the rise of composers like Adam Guettel.</p>
<p>D is currently at the Steinhardt summer program for MT and loving it. Reading between the lines, I’d gathered that they are not enamoured of belting but what about healthy mixing? It seems to me that to have some versatility in MT you need at least to have a “power mix” if not a belt in your quiver? Any thoughts?</p>
<p>Ooh, I’m passionate about this topic - be forewarned!! :)</p>
<p>I am a medical voice therapist (M.S. degree) and spend 1/2 my working time seeing voice patients, the other half coaching. I agree that:</p>
<ol>
<li>Scream-belting is becoming prevalent and is damaging to the voice - meaning belting produced by excessive muscle tension, with no real technique foundation</li>
<li>Bel canto technique is a necessary foundation for ALL good singing</li>
<li>More young singers are trying to power belt (“thank you”, YouTube and Idol) and becoming damaged in the process</li>
</ol>
<p>HOWEVER:
- Some singers ARE built to belt, and any teacher who doesn’t understand that yet works with musical theatre singers is doing those students a terrible disservice. As many of your stories have illustrated, the industry does require belting more and more - as least a “power mix,” you’re correct, anne. If that is not what a young woman’s voice does, she needs to understand that her musical theatre career, esp. in NYC (as opposed to regional markets), will likely be somewhat limited - UNLESS she is a wonderful dancer. Indeed, I advise many of my students and patients with lovely but less “big” or “belty” voices about this, so that they understand the industry expectation. It’s just like telling a kid who’s passionate about football and has some definite skills but is 5’6", “You’re probably not big enough to play in the NFL.” Can some really little guys play in the NFL? Yes, if they’re VERY fast, but it’s much more rare for them to have success than guys who are just naturally at least somewhat bigger. </p>
<ol>
<li><p>Many classical teachers do not know how to teach belt and do not understand the physiology of belting and belt-mixing safely. Therefore, they instill fear of belting into their students, who then sing with muscle tension due to that fear - literally, their throat muscles tighten severely because they know “belting is BAD”. That makes me angry beyond belief - they are risking the students’ vocal health by perpetuating such fear!!! They should instead send their MT students to a teacher with proven vocal health knowledge and success teaching students who ARE built to belt who can assess a students’ facility for HEALTHY belting. (I know of 2 such teachers in Pittsburgh, several in NYC, etc.) </p></li>
<li><p>HUGELY IMPORTANT: VERY few young singers damage themselves solely because of how they sing. The damage comes because they are kids who live in the moment, forgetting (or not understanding) that vocal damage in cumulative, and they yell with their friends, “scream-sing” with their friends on school trips, go to camp (I probably have 5 teen patients who are at camp trashing their voices right now simply from teaching and not being experienced enough to apply healthy speaking technique for 8 hours a day teaching as CIT’s), don’t sleep enough, don’t drink enough water, etc. It’s easy to make belting the bad guy, because it’s MUCH easier to say “belting is bad” than “you have to TOTALLY reshape how you think about voice use ALL THE TIME!!!” In collegiate MT programs, lack of sleep and partying (smoking, drinking, loud parties) are the big culprits. As we always tell our patients: even if you LOVE singing and are “always” singing, you talk far, far, FAR more than you sing, and it’s all with the same vocal folds.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Now I’m off my soapbox - and going to coach a belter. 
(actually true, ironically)</p>
<p>tubesock, you sound exactly like my D. She majored in MT at OCU, but considered double majoring in VP which would have required an extra semester. She ultimately decided she was tired of school at this point, but may pick up the additional classes (mostly foreign diction) in the future and has even considered a masters degree in VP. Her passion is MT, but she is well-suited for opera, or at least operetta, and she was very happy with her training at OCU. </p>
<p>I agree the theater world seems to worship belters! My D auditioned for an area professional theater production of Guys and Dolls. When she finished her song, all they said was, “Do you belt?” I don’t really think of that as a ‘belt’ show, but apparently their version is going to be.</p>
<p>Wow! Keep the great responses coming!
On a good day, I can do this sort of mix belt type of thing, though I wouldn’t consider myself a belter. I’ll always be a coloratura soprano. I’ve tried singing the trendy pop scores but my style and just the way my voice sounds does not work well with it. And while I am trained to be able to sing arias, I don’t think I could pursue opera professionally. It would almost seem as if I’m too opera for musical theatre but too musical theatre for opera! I really do want to be a “singing actress”, not a great actor with a mediocre voice or a singer who only “parks and barks”. And as much as I enjoy opera, nothing brings me greater joy than a brilliant piece of musical theatre.
Thanks for the advice on programs. I’ll be sure to look more into NYU and look further into OCU!</p>
<p>FABULOUS post CoachC!</p>
<p>Tubesock - </p>
<p>As a current student, it sounds like UMich would be a good fit as well. Though the degree is a BFA (not a BM), the department is still housed in the School of Music and so is similar to BM programs in many ways. The voice training is all rooted in classical technique - freshman are not allowed to belt in voice studios and can only study “legit” (classical and traditional musical theatre) repertoire. The voice faculty shares the MTs and VPs and there are no studios exclusively for one or the other, though certain studios are populated more by one or the other depending on the teacher’s leanings and talents as an instructor. The MT faculty (including the afforementioned Mark Madama) all highly value the legit voice and classic MT rep/technique. Hope this helps!</p>
<p>Anne…D has been taught to mix her voice to achieve a “belting” sound. She has a powerful voice and a large range. Prior to coming to Steinhardt, I have heard her “scream belt” at times. Now it is more controlled. She is currently doing a musical revue and sings “My Man.” She was able to get a belt sound through mixing.</p>
<p>Thanks, as always, to the generous contributors on this site. Your information and advice are invaluable.</p>
<p>Thank you for all these posts…gives me some hope. I have 2 Ds in MT…both sopranos. One is a more ‘natural’ belter. The oldest is a graduate of OCU - double major in VP and MT and is very protective of her voice. A recent audition notice for Little Mermaid noted that Ariel had to have a ‘clear belt to an E’. My D wouldn’t even go to the audition (despite having reddish hair and petite body and probably having a very good look for Ariel)…said she wasn’t interested in doing 9 shows a week belting that high. Ugh. She can sing the pop/rock stuff, but is much more comfortable in the traditional MT and opera genres.<br>
BTW, we coined a word at our house many years ago that refers to ‘scream-singing’…we call it ‘yelting’…a cross between yelling and belting. So many girls do it and it just doesn’t sound good. I’ve heard kids who we knew in HS that were yelters finish 4 years of college at a respectable MT programs and they still yelt! Scary.
I hope that the tide will turn and there will eventually be less emphasis on belting and more emphasis on plain 'ol good singing.</p>
<p>The OP got some great advice. I’ll just chime in similarly that a nice cross between the MT interest and the classical voice interest would be a BM program in MT, particularly if you are leaning slightly more toward MT than VP. </p>
<p>You may wish to look at these schools with a BM in MT:
U of Miami
Baldwin-Wallace
Oklahoma City University
James Madison
Westminster College of the Arts
Florida State
NYU/Steinhardt</p>
<p>If you are leaning slightly more toward Vocal Performance, then examine the curricula at each VP program as they differ and there are some VP programs that include some acting and dancing classes. </p>
<p>Picking up on actormcfamous’ post about U of Michigan first year freshmen in the MT program not being allowed to belt and focusing on legit voice, that is the same at NYU/Tisch/CAP21 for freshmen. </p>
<p>Re: belting…
I am in complete agreement with CoachC! There is a lot of “anti-belting” sentiment as if belting is “bad”. And there are classical voice teachers who say this too. For someone training for MT, they need to work with a voice teacher who teaches classical technique / bel canto…but who also teaches belt voice and musical theater repertoire. </p>
<p>Not all who belt…“scream.” There is safe and proper belting. There are some who are also natural belters. Ethel Merman anyone? My daughter happens to be a belter and I don’t see it as screaming. She has been asked to demonstrate the belt voice by her singing teacher (prior to college). In my view, one increases their odds of success in MT if they can be versatile and sing both the legit MT and the belt MT repertoire. If you can’t belt, you are knocked out of many musical auditions that require the belt voice. And many musicals today have a contemporary pop/rock sound. A BFA in MT program needs to teach both the legit voice/repertoire and the belt voice and pop/rock genre. My D’s program did both. There is variation among programs in this regard. In any case, I think the notion that “belting is bad” is misplaced. Unsafe belting would be bad for the voice, true. But a singer needs to learn how to belt properly and safely. And that is not screaming. At the very least, if one cannot belt well, at least be able to do a good mix. In my opinion, if you have a classical voice teacher who thinks belting is bad, you are not going to have a full range of training for MT singing. Classical technique is very important but excluding the belt sound from MT training is not positive in my view.</p>
<p>I agree that learning to do a safe belt is important. I would say that right now my D’s focus at NYU Steinhardt (as a freshman) has been bel canto technique and achieving a belting sound through learning to mix her voice. But her voice instructor has said she will work with her to learn safe belting, because of the obvious need in audtions. Even in school productions, some roles have needed a belt, and these are for shows that I would not consider pop/rock.</p>