MT programs for Dancer who sings

College Majors Musical Theater Major
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<p>I am trying to help a rising senior who is an AMAZING dancer and who has some vocal training/experience (but not on par with her dancing) pull together a reasonable list of schools to include reaches/matches/safeties. She wants a conservatory or BFA environment and would love to major in MT but the concern is that she could not pass the vocal audtion for many programs. Knowing this child's abilities in dance, however (all styles, including MT dance), she could, I am pretty sure, get into most if not all top-notch dance programs but that is not her desired major unless there is a theatre dance option with vocal training available. </p>

<p>Any suggestions?</p>

<p>So far on the list that they gave me, they have:</p>

<p>BYU--actually, their program is pretty competitive and many freshmen do not get in, but they offer a pre-MDT curriculum and the chance to re-audition so she could go ahead and attend the school and study voice, etc and then re-audtition. She has attended their summer intensive for a couple of years and they LOVE her (but she has not sung for them yet...she wanted to work hard on her vocal abilities first!).</p>

<p>University of Arizona---actually, this (like most top-notch programs) would be like two different schools for her: Dance (a match/reach) or MT (BIG reach because of voice, I think)</p>

<p>Point Park-- Dance or MT</p>

<p>Shenandoah--Dance or MT</p>

<p>University of the Arts</p>

<p>Oklahoma City University-Dance BFA definitely a safety for her; I do not think their MT program would fit her at all</p>

<p>FSU--dance (match) or MT (reach)</p>

<p>Marymount Manhattan--BFA dance with minor in MT (their dance website actually suggests this combination but their theater arts website suggests it cannot be done! I have e-mailed them, but if it can be done this one sounds perfect for her...)</p>

<p>BO CO --Dance BFA (not sure she would want this, not really musical theater, but a "match") or MT BFA (BIG reach due again to voice)</p>

<p>This list is one they gave me and I agreed to do some research for them into these programs. I would love to give them some more "safeties" and, ideally some schools that would offer great dance and musical theater experience with vocal training. Don't get me wrong, this kid is not an awful singer or anything, she is just not a GREAT singer...</p>

<p>Any further suggestions??</p>

<p>Thanks a BUNCH!!!</p>

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<p>PPU dance (safety) with MT (minor)
She would know of her acceptance early on in the process if she goes to the 1st auditions, in Sept I believe.
She might want to go the their MT audition as well (usually the weekend before or after), just to get the experience early on, even though that might not be a match?
My D did this and was glad to have a safety under her belt before the audition season even began.</p>

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<p>Also, BoCo mentioned during their auditions this year that they added dance to the audition because they are considering having a BFA MT/Dance Major. I don't know if this will be available this coming year, or in the future. Worth calling to ask about....</p>

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<p>Thanks so much. This is VERY helpful info!!!</p>

<p>Any others??</p>

<p>I am concerned she does not have enough safeties in her list...</p>

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<p>Have her take a GOOD look at Muhlenberg. They have a wonderful dance faculty and have had impressive guest artists. Last year, Robert La Fosse of ABT and NYC Ballet was in residence. I know an fantastic dancer with an MT background who just finished her Freshman year.</p>

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<p>I think this is a bit tricky in terms of WHICH kind of college or degree program she should be looking into. </p>

<p>It is hard to say without knowing her skill level but you are implying that you don't think her singing would pass muster for a BFA in MT admissions, or you have some doubt, in any case. As you know BFA in MT admissions are highly competitive. While of the three skills....singing, acting, dancing....sometimes it is OK if one of those areas is weaker, if there is potential, USUALLY the one area that can't be too weak is singing. I'd be concerned that she'd have trouble being admitted to a BFA in MT program. </p>

<p>You say she doesn't want a BFA in dance though likely has a good chance at admissions to some of these. I'd have her look at BFA in dance schools where there is some possibility to also study voice at the college in order to keep that skill up. I'd think that she may want some schools like that on her list. </p>

<p>But I also think a really good option for her might be a BA school that has a dance major but also has a music program where she can either double major or minor. For instance, I know a girl who majored in dance at Barnard, your D's school. I don't know what, if anything, she did with voice because frankly I know her to mostly be a dancer. Since graduating, she has been cast in some musicals...a regional theater and a national tour. Someone with a dance background can go to open calls for "dancers who sing". I think there are several BA schools where she could study both dance and music. Barnard is one. But also Freelance just mentioned an excellent option...Muhlenberg which has a BA in musical theater and has strong dance. I also know the girl she knows at Muhlenberg who is a very strong dancer but who has done a lot of musical theater. Also at Skidmore and Goucher, one can combine dance and music majors. Smith or Sarah Lawrence might have possibilities to study both music and dance. Also, I know a very strong dancer who has done a lot of musical theater and had auditioned for BFA in MT programs but was not admitted but ended up at Indiana and loves it and I think there are great options there for someone like the girl you are talking about who is similar to the girl I am talking about. </p>

<p>So, I would expand her search to some BFA in dance schools where she might be able to study voice (schools like Point Park, UMass, UArts, UArizona, and Marymount Manhattan) AND to some BA schools strong in dance where there are options to study voice/music as well, such as Barnard, Smith, Goucher, Skidmore, Sarah Lawrence, and Indiana University. Another thing is to apply to some BA in MT programs (or variations)...like Muhlenberg, American, UNH, James Madison, Fordham, Wagner. If she opts for a BFA in MT, perhaps some not as highly competitive ones like Pace or Montclair State might be in order. </p>

<p>One last thing....the schools you listed that have both a BFA in MT and one in Dance, and each of those degree programs involves a different audition/admissions process and so she'd have to audition twice for the school. The BFA in MT might be tough if singing is an issue and then the BFA in Dance is not the degree you said she wants.</p>

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<p>I will also chime in for Point Park, U. Arts, and Oklahoma City. As Melsmom said, if your friend's D were to audition for Point Park early in the season, she'd know whether or not she had been accepted well before Christmas.</p>

<p>Doing a dance degree at OCU might be a good safety option. Dance majors at Oklahoma City have private voice lessons or voice classes and acting classes built into the curriculum. Dance performance majors cannot double major, however they can do a minor. I would inquire if it is possible to take voice lessons through all 4 years.</p>

<p>Kent State in Ohio is a school I'd suggest looking into. Upperclass MT majors can choose a concentration in either music or dance. Kent State is a less competitive school, so it might serve as a safety.</p>

<p>Otterbein in Ohio is another school you might look at. The program is very competitive, but they do offer a dance concentration for a very small number of their MT students.</p>

<p>I would tell my friends that their D needs to have a couple of non-audition schools on her list that she feels are acceptable. The non-audition schools are the only true safeties in MT.</p>

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<p>To expand on what Susan wrote, at a school like UArizona I would do a lot of research to find out what sort of vocal training opportunities a dance major would really have. Even the MT students only get 2 years of voice training and I believe that now only one of those years is even guaranteed with a faculty member. I could be wrong, but that is definitely what I have heard. Tucson would not have unlimited and strong voice teacher opportunities as a city like Chicago or LA (not to mention NY) would offer. My personal feeling is that if the voice really isn't there, I think auditioning for too many MT programs could be a real heartbreak as it is very BIG emotionally and takes a lot of time and money and effort away from senior year. </p>

<p>OCU dance majors I believe take voice training, although again I would research exactly WHO would be teaching these students. The advantage to OCU, Arizona, and PPU for dance is that they do specialize in jazz dance, whereas most college dance departments do not.</p>

<p>The idea of a BA in dance is a possibility as a BFA would consume the student's time in dance, but I can't imagine a BA in dance program that would offer extremely strong dance training. However, that might be fine if her career goal is MT as the type of dancing required in MT is not at all the same as for a career in a ballet or modern company.</p>

<p>On the subject of her voice, has her voice been "investigated" to see if the potential is there and that it's the training she's lacking? If she has the potential, then a plan for a later audition date to get into a particular program would be a good idea. If the potential is not there, what would be the point of expecting to get into the program in another year or two? I could be wrong about this as I am not trained in music, but that's my instinct from what I've read and heard.</p>

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<p>Mtmommy- Can you clarify the investigation process you mention? Who would do this, and what does it entail?</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

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<p>Soozievt, you are exactly right. That is the concern: that her lack of vocal training would be what holds her back in being able to gain admission to the major BFA MT programs most often discussed here. They are well aware of that. The other problem with her looking into BA programs, Sooz, is that this kid does not seem to be interested in the more rigorous academics that would go along with that option. She would really rather be in a conservatory environment, but does not want to just do ballet or modern dance.</p>

<p>There have been some excellent suggestions listed above which we will look into and which are greatly appreciated ! I will plass all of this along to my friends and keep you all posted. THis kid and her mom are wonderful sweet people....you all would like them a lot! LOL, I tried to get her mom to "come on in" to CC, but I think she was just overwhelmed by it all!!!</p>

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<p>I can offer some information about UofAZ. All of the info I know is of course subject to change. Currently all MT students take voice every semester. The freshman and sophomore MT students take voice from the voice faculty or graduate students in the voice department. (This past year most of the freshmen took voice from graduate students. That placement depended on the student’s initial audition into the program.) Junior and senior MT students take voice from the MT faculty.</p>

<p>The U of A dance program is very good and highly competitive. A dance student could take private voice from a graduate student or voice professor by audition, I suppose. I agree with mtmommy in that Tucson would not have unlimited and strong voice teacher opportunities as a city like Chicago/LA / NY. Also, be aware that U of A MT students must reaudition at the end of their freshman and sophomore years to continue in the program. There are many and various opinions concerning that policy.</p>

<p>I also agree with mtmommy in that auditioning for too many MT programs could be time consuming and expensive. </p>

<p>BTW, there is no dance audition as part of the U of A MT audition process. Many MT auditions do not require a dance audition, but they all require a singing audition.</p>

<p>My personal opinion is that you take a very good look at Otterbein for dance.</p>

<p>Good luck and I always recommend the following book for anyone preparing for the audition year: Directory of Theatre Training Programs.</p>

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<p>Hi Holly. This year the printed information given the auditioners for MT at UA was that the program only provides for 2 years of vocal training. I think it might have changed since the time your daughter auditioned.</p>

<p>Otterbein only has a minor in dance, in addition to the MT with concentration in dance. They only take 4 MT girls and 4 boys each year--and that includes the regular MT and MT with dance concentration. This school would be an extreme longshot for MT for this student and not a place to major in dance. If any of this has changed, I'm sure Doctorjohn could answer that for you, but this is my knowledge through this year about the program.</p>

<p>UArts has been mentioned. This might be good for dance for this student (although I admit I don't know anything about their dance program), but not MT. When I first researched schools, the young man at UArts I spoke with made clear that dance is definitely not a strength at UArts for MT--and that they don't care too much about it for MT. Unless he was leading me astray, that would be a good MT school for someone with their true strength in voice and acting, not someone who is a dancer first and foremost.</p>

<p>I wonder if anybody has done any research on dance programs in colleges where students can get vocal training, etc. Are there dance threads on CC where this has been discussed? Maybe there are dance forums out there somewhere where this question could be posed.</p>

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<p>MTmommy:</p>

<p>"I wonder if anybody has done any research on dance programs in colleges where students can get vocal training, etc. Are there dance threads on CC where this has been discussed?" </p>

<p>I have not seen any such threads on CC where dance training with vocal training has been discussed (though I think I tried to ask about this or at least search the site long, long ago when my own daughter was looking at programs)</p>

<p>Yep, that is the big question in a nutshell.</p>

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<p>dancersmom, I agree from my bit of research and knowing this kid that OCU sounds like a good safety for her. I am still waiting for an answer from Marymount Manhattan on whether one can actually audition for the MT minor with a BFA Dance major...that issue is pretty confusing but the program and location sound like a great match/reach school for her (even if she just did the BFA in theater dance without the MT minor).</p>

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<p>SUNY Fredonia has a MT major with a concentration in dance. This means that most of the classes would be dance/musical theatre dance with a few other acting/singing courses. Just an idea. I visited there, and the dance facilities, faculties, and opportunities looked very nice.</p>

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<p>Just to bring Montclair back up...</p>

<p>They have four degree options:
1. The Bachelor of Fine Arts in Theatre, with a Concentration in Musical Theatre
2. The Bachelor of Fine Arts in Dance, with a Concentration in Musical Theatre
3. The Bachelor of Music, with a Concentration in Musical Theatre
4. The Musical Theatre Minor</p>

<p>If you read about the BFA in Dance with a Concentration in MT....it fits the girl you are talking about. That option is described:
"Dance (BFA )– Musical Theatre majors in the BFA Dance Program complete the majority of their course work in dance. Students rigorously train in technique and theory, and perform in the MSU Repertory Dance Company. The curriculum is designed to keep dance skills at a high level and includes seven semesters of Modern/Jazz; four semesters of Ballet; three semesters of Choreography; eight semesters of Repertory; and one semester each of Improvisation, Laban Movement Analysis, Methods, and Dance History; for a total of 54 credits in Dance. These courses are in addition to the core Musical Theatre curriculum."</p>

<p>Sample Courses from the Musical Theatre Core Curriculum</p>

<p>§ Music Theory (3 cr)
§ Aural Skills (1 cr)
§ Acting (9 cr)
§ Dance (12 credits)
§ Applied Voice (8 credits)
§ Performance Practicum / Voice Master Class (2 cr)
§ Musical Theater I and II (6 cr)
§ American Musical Theatre (3 cr)
§ Rehearsal and Production (4 cr)</p>

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<p>Mtmommy</p>

<p>Oopps…sorry…old news!! I only know the curriculum that was in place this past school year. Thanks for the update.</p>

<p>BTW, do you have any other suggestions on MT schools with the least emphasis on dance and/or what schools would you suggest for straight theatre with opportunities for continued training in voice and dance? Or, do you know of any threads that may address this question?</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

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<p>ChurchmusicMom....I know I already discussed the various options but also just reiterating Fordham. They have a top notch dance BFA in association with Alvin Ailey. I know that there is a music minor there and the minor students can take private voice lessons. I am not positive if that minor can be combined with the BFA in dance, however. That would be something to find out.</p>

<p>At UArts, a Dance BFA major can concentrate in Jazz/Theater dance. I don't know if they can take any music courses. Perhaps, since it is a major city, the dance student could take private voice lessons to keep that up.</p>

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<p>The dance majors at Oklahoma City University study voice with adjunct voice faculty. They are not the same voice teachers who teach then MT/VP majors.</p>

<p>And..personally..I wouldn't invest the time looking at the OCU dance degree if they only want to consider OCU as a safety. They turn down more students than those who audition. It's a selective program for those who want to dance in entertainment venues. One of their graduates is in the new Broadway "Chorus Line"</p>

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<p>Anothermom...investigation "process" lol. Yeah, right. Well, as I said, I am not trained in music (though I bet Churchmusicmom is ;)), but I think one way to check out the voice is to take the student to consult with voice teachers and vocal coaches who are not the student's own teacher or potential teacher; in other words, look for teachers/coaches in a large metropolitan area who would agree to consult and give an opinion (or people offering master classes). The student can take a lesson or two with at least one such person (more if they can swing it financially) and get an informed opinion. I would also try voice faculty at colleges. They aren't going to do it for free, but if you ask for a consultation that you pay for, you should find some willing people. If they are not the student's own teacher they will not be emotionally connected to the student (and swayed by emotion or personality) and if they are not a potential teacher, they could not be swayed by financial considerations either. While I would not stake my future on what one teacher says, I would listen to what at least 1-2 other ones (besides the regular voice teacher) have to say--and the secondary benefit is the students gets voice lessons from different teachers!</p>