<p>My child has always loved musical theater, but I see, as time goes by, a great affinity for classical music, especially opera. Did or do any of your kids struggle with this situation? How did they resolve it? Are there schools that allow you to do both or does a decision have to be made prior to auditioning.</p>
<p>My d also is very interested in classical music/opera as well as musical theater and has had classical training for several years. In fact, at one point my d was considering vocal performance as opposed to MT. You might check out programs that offer a BM in MT such as OCU or NYU/Steinhardt and others. My d will be attending OCU next year and it is very classically based. In fact, the MT students may audition for the operas and vice versa. During our visit to OCU, we met a studnet who started out MT, but who switched to VP, so that would be a possibility also. That way she might have opportunity to do some of both and ultimately decide which direction she wants to go. Hope this helps,
Lexasmom</p>
<p>AblestMom, Now there's the million dollar question! I could fill this and another thread up with my comments, but most of it would probably sound rambled, as much of that decision making is just as unclear. My D is studying MT and VP at UM right now. She takes classes in both. She is considered a double major. She auditioned and was accepted into both disciplines. We are not crystal clear about how it will all turn out, though. I wish UM had a BM in MT, as other places do, because then the problem would be solved. But, so far, they do not.</p>
<p>So, to answer your question, a decision was not made at audition last year nor has it yet been made for next year. Not even sure if it has to be! Of course, all of this pertains only to UM. I am sure other schools like OCU have solved that issue by offering a BM to those kids interested and are trained in both. </p>
<p>I would tell your D to follow her heart and to be steadfast in her desires. I believe that there is a way to do both.</p>
<p>I hope I've helped.</p>
<p>Thanks Lexasmom - that's wonderful that at OCU they can cross audition. Going with a school that has a strong program in both with the ability to switch within the first or second year sounds like the way to go.</p>
<p>Gkoukla - OH PLEASE - keep on writing - I haven't read a rambling post from you yet!!!!! It's further complicated by the desire to also major in science. So at a school that has a BM in MT, this is possible? Does your daughter feel pressured to commit to one major or is the school fine with the double major for all 4 years? I've heard that alot of colleges verbally promise the ability to do a double major and then when you get in, you are forced to declare one major. BTW - how fabulous to audition for TWO disciplines and get into both at UM - kudos to her!!!! It difficult because classical training is so discouraged when kids are young that some have to make these decisions before they are fully exposed to it.</p>
<p>ABlestMom: You wrote: "It is difficult because classical training is so discouraged when kids are young that some have to make these decisions before they are fully exposed to it".....therin lies the problem. At UM, and I would imagine at most schools, the opportunities as an undergrad to really perform in an opera are small. By the jr and sr years things let up some, and opportunities are there. Summer opportunities abound, although. Our D is going to Italy this summer with the Daniel Ferro Vocal Program. This program is small enough to give her some performance time and to get a feeling of that opera world.</p>
<pre><code>So far UM is fine with the double major. "So far" is the operative phrase. We've not felt pressure to do anything at this point. Both disciplines have accepted her with open arms, which is really nice. Yes, our D has had to graciously move between the programs, and I have to say UM has helped her through that. You have to wonder why they don't just offer a BM in MT degree. Adding science in there MAY be difficult, but going to a school like UM with great academics could afford you some classes in that area, I would think.
</code></pre>
<p>Thanks for the kudos! We are so blessed and I have to say a prayer every day that we continue to make the right decisions. Again, I say go for what you want and don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Sometimes you have to fight for what you want. There is no perfect school. And, by the way, I think going VP is a great path to Broadway!</p>
<p>ABlestmom...
To add my 2 cents to the conversation...I have a daughter who has a classically trained voice...but loves MT. She auditioned for MT primarily...but VP at several schools really as a "back-up" plan since it is all so competitive. Of course, the VP audition was at my urging. She was accepted for MT at OCU. She was also accepted for VP at U of Michigan. She has very recently decided (after MUCH deliberation!) to go to U of M. She really does want to do Opera and MT. She understands it would have been easier to do that at OCU probably. But she decided Michigan was the school she wanted to attend. I do believe she is realistic in her expectations of how much performance she will be able to do there. </p>
<p>Anyway...another school I would suggest you look at which offers the opportunity for both Opera and MT is Baldwin-Wallace. It is a fine program and ample opportunity is given for both. We also looked at the U of Miami's BM in MT. (Daughter decided not to audition there tho.) Florida State offers a BM in MT. With what you have indicated, these will be worth a look for you.</p>
<p>Hope that helps!</p>
<p>My D is finishing up her soph year at OCU as an MT major. She has had lead roles in musicals and operas while there. She has decided to double major in MT and VP primarily because she thinks (and has been counseled) that it will make her acceptance into graduate school for VP easier. With 'just' a MT degree, that may be more difficult. Apparently, VP requires more classes in foreign languages, diction and theory and that will be important when she is being considered for graduate school. Also, she has decided that MT will sustain her thru her 20s and opera will kick in in her 30s....thereby extending her ability to continue to perform. She does both equally well so I hope all her 'plans' work out.</p>
<p>2DsnMT,
Did your d start out with the double major or is this something that was decided after she got into the MT program at OCU? My d will be a freshman MT at OCU in the fall and she is also very interested in more classical training to expand her future opportunities.
Thanks for any insight into this you can give.</p>
<p>Lexasmom</p>
<p>This is such an interesting topic and one in which I had a great deal of interest as my D was contemplating where to apply. As several of you have noted, it is not uncommon for students to have an interest in both MT and classical performance and my D can also do both. She didn't "discover" her voice until high school (had always been a ballet dancer) and when those I trusted finally gave the go ahead for her to start private voice, there was never a question but that she would train with a classical teacher. I think my D was surprised to find out how much she was drawn to classical repertoire and what a facility she had for it (she was awarded Honorable Mention in Voice/Soprano in the 2004 NFAA competition after only one year of training). However, when it came time to apply to college, it became clear that she wanted to major in MT, especially after she had to make a decision as to whether or not to apply to Juilliard for Voice. Her teacher thought she had a reasonable chance of being accepted but also thought it was a better choice as a "finishing" school, i.e. after undergraduate work, if she was still interested after obtaining her BFA. When we sat down and really discussed the implications of pursuing that course, it became clear that auditioning for Juilliard was more about ego than real goals. That was an important "light bulb" moment in her search. We did, however look for some programs that might allow her to keep her VP options open to some extent and that is why we were drawn to UM and NYU Steinhardt. More about these two programs:</p>
<p>My D was accepted at Steinhardt as an MT and we were very impressed with the faculty and students we met and saw perform there. The program really is a BM with a CONCENTRATION in MT. You can also do a BM with a CONCENTRATION in Vocal Performance and we were told that there is a good deal of fluidity between the two concentrations. One of my favorite moments in the Group meeting before the audition was when the Chair of the Music Dept said that Steinhardt's program was unique in that the Voice Faculty and the MT faculty actually LIKED each other! In the end, however, it became clear to us that the curricular requirements of a BM did not leave sufficient time for the acting and dance classes my D felt were critical.</p>
<p>I know Gkoukla has a clearer picture of what life is like at UM with a foot in both VP and MT. I also have had lots of discussions with Musicalthtrmom as her D made the decision to accept UM for Vocal Performance and I know that both she and her talented D, who has a strong interest in MT, have asked lots of critical questions of people in the know at UM, so she has formed her own set of opinions about what straight VP has to offer. My comments should not be taken in any other way than that they are my own observations and concerns about trying to do both at a place like UM. My concern is that at some point I believe, and again this is just my opinion, the student is not well served by trying to serve two masters. There are enough differences in the requirements for these two majors that by trying to both you are inevitably going to miss something (some classes, some connections with classmates, come relationships with faculty, etc) in each. Now I know nothing about OCU - it looked very interesting to me when we were doing our search but my D dug in her heels about living in Oklahoma City for 4 years. Perhaps the program there is designed to be cross disciplinary and that's great; but the program at UM is not designed that way. Yes, all MT's and VP's are allowed to audition for operas and MT productions (once they get past the first semester audition prohibition). However, it is made clear that MT's will be given first consideration for all MT productions and VP's in their productions. I know of only one person at UM who is formally a double major in VP and MT and have been told that almost without exception, those who have attempted to double major in the past have been "strongly counseled" to choose one or the other by their sophomore, or at the latest, their junior year. With regard to the voice training, I would definitely say it is based in classical vocal technique. Few students are accepted at UM if they cannot demonstrate legit technique or at least an untrained potential to achieve it. Many students also have or are taught correct belting technique. But the same teachers who work with VP students, also work with MT students and my D is looking forward to working on some amount of classical repertoire along with her MT repertoire in her private voice classes next year. It just won't be her main focus. UM MT's also receive strong music training - piano, music theory, sight singing, solfeg (sic?). I think my D would be hard pressed to give up any of her MT classes to make room for the requirements of the VP major. I'd love Gkoukla to share some of the choices her D has had to make as I think they would be most instructive.</p>
<p>So I hope what I've observed is helpful to those who are interested in both MT and VP, at least as far as Steinhardt and UM. I'm sure others who have experiences with other programs will chime in with their thoughts. I really like the attitude expressed by 2DsnMT"s D. I think that if my D were to change her mind and want to further her training in VP, she would be able to do so at the graduate level, even well into her later 20's. We've been told that the classical female voice doesn't really begin to mature for performance until at least that time. So for now, she's head over heels into MT and loving being able to focus her energies on all the requirements of that discipline. With the kind of training she's getting at UM, her voice is being well cared for and she should be free to follow whatever dreams arise, as they arise. I pinch myself every day for the opportunities she has been given.</p>
<p>My D did not start out as a double major...she has just decided on this this Spring semester. In high school she was in all-state choir several years and competed in classical competitions....always doing well. She, too, was a Merit or Honorable Mention in classical voice at NFAA; was invited to audition at Juilliard, etc. But, it wasn't until she actually performed in an opera at OCU that she realized she really enjoyed the 'performing' of classical songs. So, she has decided to pursue both. To do so, she is going to summer school (10 hours) to take care of some basic gen ed classes. She aniticipates it will take her an additional one semester to complete both degrees. However, she is also in the OCU Honors Program and maybe some of those requirements are also what will be extending her stay at OCU....I don't really know. I think at OCU both programs are very well integrated...same faculty....and so as long as she is willing to put in the extra work and time, she'll be able to attain both degrees....certainly can't hurt her marketability.</p>
<p>I think we all have to carve out what is best for our own kids, whether its at one school or the other. It was a tough choice for us, but UM was willing to implement this strategy for my D. Who knows what's going to happen down the line, but the faculty in both disciplines have been emphatic as to their confidence in our D.</p>
<p>The big decision maker on our part was to make sure that our D had a voice teacher and not a student coaching her during her freshman year. Hence, the dual major.</p>
<p>An invitation to audition at Juilliard is a fabulous accomplishment! Congrat's to your D, 2DsmMT! They only audition the best, so she must be great! Also, we seem to have a very similar approach to our D's educational strategies.</p>
<p>"It difficult because classical training is so discouraged when kids are young that some have to make these decisions before they are fully exposed to it."</p>
<p>I've been lurking for quite a while, but decided to answer this post since my dd was told the exact opposite. She is a legit soprano, who is 18, having taken voice lessons since age 13. The training has always been classical (i.e., Italian arias, English art songs, some German and French, etc.). Her love of musical theater was always there, but she was definitely told it was best to classically train first. She was recently accepted into a BM VP program, and is going to try and get some additional MT training with an outside teacher. We know several Broadway actors who were trained this way and been very successful. </p>
<p>All of the advice we've been given has ALWAYS been geared towards classical training, first, and then MT belt.</p>
<p>musicalthtrmom - thanks, I will definitely look into Baldwin-Wallace as well as OCU and UM.</p>
<p>2DsnMT - how impressive to have gotten leads in both as a sophomore! Did the invitation to audition at Juilliard (WOW) come from doing so well at the NFAA's (double WOW)? I was on the Juilliard site today and watched the NY Times video on Juilliard with dialogue from their 1st year students - the mezzo was amazing!</p>
<p>friendostar - My child has had classical/musical theater training since she was 8 - she began with the Vaccai and added the Italian Art Songs at 9. I totally agree that the classical training is imperative -like ballet is imperative to the dancer. What I'm saying is that they are not exposed to operatic arias until much later and many vocal teachers do not even want to begin to train the female voice until they are 15 or 16. But this is the age when they are beginning to look at colleges and majors - not much time to have formulated an opinion. </p>
<p>theatermom - I've heard the same thing about the woman's voice not maturing till her late 20's - when they are considered "young" opera singers - it boggles the mind.</p>
<p>ABlestMom - Three of the schools discussed here - OCU, BW, and Michigan are very high on my son's list. He is definitely going for musical theatre in next year's auditions but has an additional interest in opera performance and has been taking voice lessons for over 4 years (since his voice changed) that are primarily classical (although they also work on Broadway numbers for his audition repertoire). We like the fact that these 3 programs are under the school of music (same is true at the Florida schools and NYU Steinhardt - we only visited Tisch for CAP21 and haven't been to FL). I'm concerned about your ability to have a double major in science, but I recommend that you talk to the admissions office at each of these schools and try to find the one that is most willing to work with you on this option.</p>
<p>I think we will all be confused until we clarify some of the terms we are using. Being trained by a classical voice teacher does not mean that the student is necessarily studying classical repertoire. In my understanding, a good classical voice teacher will just insure that the student is being trained to use their voice correctly, i.e., learning proper breathing technique, breath support, enunciation, etc., all the things that will protect the voice and allow a singer to have a long and healthy career. I believe that most reputable classical voice teachers will not begin to introduce true classical repertoire until the voice has begun to mature and that time differs for each student. I believe we have some voice teachers on this forum and if any of them feels like it, it would be great to hear when in your opinion it is really safe for a child to begin voice lessons and what is the age range of the students to whom you would begin to teach real classical repertoire.</p>
<p>Gkoukla,</p>
<p>Just to reiterate, I thought I made clear that I was just voicing my opinion about what I understand to be some of the issues involved in trying to be a double major in VP and MT at UMich for those who will look into that possibility in the coming year. I was not suggesting in any way that your D does not have the support of the faculty or that I think your choices are in any way flawed. Clearly, as you stated, we all gather information and then make the choice that best suits our goals. I wish your D only continued success at UM. She seems to have had a wonderful year.</p>
<p>Age for voice lessons - Thanks, theatermom for your clarification. Since I am not a singer, I don't always know all the correct terms; however, my son does study much classical music, including songs in several languages. Eric begged for years for his piano teacher to teach him voice lessons. They would sing some at piano lessons to prepare him for choir or theatre auditions, but our teacher would not teach him formal voice lessons until his voice had completely changed, which I understand happens for girls as well, but it of course is more noticable in boys. As soon as the teacher thought he was ready, Eric started taking voice from him. His voice is really his strongest asset, in my humble opinion, and I know very little about it!</p>
<p>The invitation to audition for VP at Juilliard comes from submitting a pre-screening CD with specific required repertoire....I think it was six arias...different composers, languages, and time periods. From the CD's submitted, they invite students to audition in person. She never was really looking at Juilliard seriously to attend....since they don't do MT.....but she wanted to see if she could get in. Plus, we had a nice trip to NY! But, she would love to go for grad school.</p>
<p>2DsnMT,
Thanks so much for the information. Your d sounds a lot like mine. My d is also going to be honors student and has a lot of classical type awards under her belt. I showed your post to her and she was very excited about the possibility of picking up the VP as a double major. </p>
<p>Lexasmom</p>
<p>theatermom: I wasn't negating your opinion, I was just adding my two cents. I'm so sorry if you took it the wrong way. </p>
<p>Can you believe the year is over already?</p>