<p>We found NY to be very competetive as well- although the MOC's seemed to work together to eliminate duplicate noms to the SAME academy- having said that, there were a handful of kids who received noms to two academies, and an even smaller number who received noms to 3....</p>
<p>oh my gosh nurseypoo......that ole geezer is STILL harassing our young one's eh???? I'm tempted to pen a personal letter to the Senator on this. One typed, not emailed. If there are other families from CA who have personally experienced this stupid reply I'd think we all should commit to sending a personal note directly to Barbara Boxer. Anyone game??? email me at
<a href="mailto:nofooingme2003@yahoo.com">nofooingme2003@yahoo.com</a></p>
<p>this is more than ridiculous</p>
<p>Same in PA. Unaware of any dup noms to single academy from senators and MOCs. Dupes may come from JrROTCs, presidentials, etc.</p>
<p>Does anyone know anything about VP nominees? Who gets 'em, when do they come out, etc.? That has to be a major pig in a poke, but just wondering how they could possibly decide on those? Are they de facto USNA recommended noms to the VP?</p>
<p>PSpeske ... what is nofooingme?? :eek:</p>
<p>ooops Whistlepig is right
my email is
<a href="mailto:nofoolingme2003@yahoo.com">nofoolingme2003@yahoo.com</a></p>
<p>Back in 2003 I had so much spam to my mail account I was in a lousy mood and decided to use this name so I could shield myself from stupid spam.Hence the name Thanks for catching this, wp</p>
<p>HELLO NURSEYPOO and SEALION! I am so glad to see you gals still posting after myself being away for 7 months and have wondered how you two were doing. I have been trying to "forget" the process when I was not involved directly in it as it is overwhelming at times as you all know. With the nomination process over and now the ever-elusive LOA recieved I think I will start another MOMS of 2011 post so we can bring in some more of us mom's-in-waiting to compare notes for the next 6 ... no, it is now 5 months 'til I-day! WOO HOO!!</p>
<p>Our son has eight total nominations now: four to the Naval Academy and four to the Air Force Academy. The last four arrived today. That's a presidential and a JROTC nomination to each, a senator's nomination to each, and a representative's nomination to each. 30/30 math/english ACT scores, top five percent of high school class, perfect health according to DODMERB, and more than sufficient extracurricular and leadership activities so far as we can tell. </p>
<p>We have mixed feelings about having pursued so many nominations even though that is exactly what the admissions committees advise. </p>
<p>We feel regret and sadness for the many fine young men and women who didn't get a nomination. We wish we could have some assurance that a single nomination was all that was needed so we could have stopped at one. But even with the eight there is no assurance that our son will get an appointment. This is really frustrating all the way round.</p>
<p>kcraig, where in the country do you guys live? And congrats to your amazing child!</p>
<p>Intermountain west, moderately populated state.</p>
<p>He is a great kid. He's very smart and well disciplined. But more than that, he's just a good, friendly, and extremely likeable young man. His mother and I don't know what we did to deserve him.</p>
<p>Multiple MOC nominations to the same academy are not uncommon, even in states like California and New York. Keep in mind also that candidates with LOA's do not count against a MOC's official number of allowable cadets or midshipman at the academy at one time. They are essentially "freebies" that don't count against the "5" limit--The LOA's still must garner nominations, but a congressman could have 8 LOA's in his district with only 1 "official" slot "open" and still get 9 candidates into the same academy in one year (8 LOA's with noms plus 1 candidate without an LOA that he/she could give as a primary nom). That is why there seem to be so many more cadets from some Congressional Districts or Senators than seems possible given the "limit" of 5 per MOC at an academy at one time.</p>
<p>My understanding is that indeed LOAs do count against the "5" if they're appointed as result of his nom. If not when they go into the national pool, then not. Can someone please edify?</p>
<p>btw, kcraig, rumor has it you had one heckuva gifted milkman. :eek: So where is a intermountain west, moderately populated? do tell.</p>
<p>congrats. That must be some kinda record! We were glad for one, and that it was THE one.</p>
<p>LOA's can or can not count against the primary 5, depending on how USNA decides to place their eggs so to speak. All an LOA means is that "hey - we want you and if you dont screw up we'll find you a way in". Essentially, if they can't place you in your MOC nom appt, then you go to the alternates round (along with all other non-primary nominees), where the top x get selected. Since you have an LOA, you are at the top of that list, and thus will get an appt.</p>
<p>I think you will be hard-pressed to find candidates who have LOA's, are found triple-Qed, and don't get a nomination. An LOA says more than "we'll find you a way in"--its a guaranteed offer of appointment IF you are found triple Q'ed and garner a nomination. A non-primary nomination is enough if you have an LOA. You won't need to go to some other list. In most cases MOC's use the competitive nomination method anyway so as long as a candidate is one of those listed AND they have an LOA, AND they have passed DODMERB, AND are academically/physically qualified, they will get offered an appt.</p>
<p>USNA LOA: "You are guaranteed an offer of appointment if your remaining admissions requirements are compleated."</p>
<p>USMA LOA: "I have reserved a cadetship for you contingent upon the receipt of a nomination, medical qualification, continued excellent work in school, and file completion."</p>
<p>Perhaps I should have clarified, but that is essentially what I meant. By "we'll find you a way in", I was refering to how the allocate appointments. Only 1 will get THE MOC appt, the other 9 (regardless of method) go to a list of people from across the nation that recieved nominations but were not given a direct appt from them. That list is then essentially ranked, and then used to fill in the class to the 1200 number. An LOA means you have a high WPM, and thus would rank at the top of that list anyway, because is directly connected to what USNA "thinks" of you. </p>
<p>The key (although not extremely important in the long run), is that only 1 will get an appt under that source, the others are called "alternate nominees" or something along that line. Just to add to that, people who dont recieve Presidentials will also go into that national pool of alternates.</p>
<p>Candidates with LOA's from a MOC if found qualified, even without the principal nomination will get offers of admission based on the nomination from that MOC, not from some "list". The only difference is that those candidates with LOA's will not be "charged against" the available slots of that MOC. The below link explains the nominating process rather well. It is aimed at West Point Candidates but the nominating process is regulated by law through Congress so it will apply also to USNA.</p>
<p>Shogun, have you ever heard the story of the six blind Indians who each touched a different part of an elephant and then attempted to describe the animal as a whole. Darned if, in your attempts to describe an elephant, you have grabbed the tail of a water buffalo. </p>
<p>First off, USNA in no way, shape, or form treats LOAs the same as WP. USNA, for sure, and also USAFA, I think, feel that WP is abusing the system and has attempted to get them to modify their actions. Your link describes LOAs being administered before the application process is complete. If this is true, why have an application process? How can this not be abuse. Their whole admissions process is a joke. Also, the gentleman in the link states that at some points during the year, the cutoff for offers of admission is above the LOA level. Hard to comprehend.</p>
<p>With that said, don't put too much emphasis on the quoted link. Some of it is correct, some over simplified, some misleading, and some downright incorrect.</p>
<p>To correct some of the inconsistencies from above:
A LOA who is the primary nomination of a MOC will be charged against that MOC. </p>
<p>A MOC's competitive nomination slate which contains an LOA does not obligate the Admissions Office to place that LOA as the primary nomination for that MOC. The MOST competitive applicant will receive that primary nomination, irregardless of LOA.</p>
<p>All LOAs who do not receive primary nominations will be placed in the national pool and "list"ed in order of their whole person profile and selected accordingly.</p>
<p>The link refers to the esteemed congressman from ND being able to hand out his nominations randomly to whomsoever needs them. This has not happened since shortly after the author graduated. Title 10, US Code specifically states that candidates must domicile in the district of the nominating MOC. Therefore this is not a source of LOA nominations. Unused MOC nominatins simply increase the opportunities for the qualified alternates in the national pool. And LOAs without primary nominations are swimming in the pool just like all others.</p>
<p>USNA69 – you leave me very confused. As a parent of a midshipman who received a LOA, the process, was explained to us by both admissions and our MOC Academy Liasion Officer, very differently than you are presenting here.</p>
<p>My son received his LOA with only the Nomination outstanding. The LOA came the same week as the interviews with all three MOC’s. In bold print it stated the he was guaranteed an offer of appointment as long as his remaining admissions requirements are completed. In his case, the nomination. The letter concludes with wishing him success in completing the requirements and Welcoming him as a member of the Brigade of Midshipmen. The letter was cc to all three of our MOC’s. Leaves no doubt that as long as he even just gets one nomination – not even primary – that he had his appointment.</p>
<p>Within a week of interviewing, he received phone calls from two of his MOC’s Congratulating him on his Appointment. (Late November) The certificate arrived about a week later. At a later date, when needing to drop something off at one MOC’s office, speaking to the Academy Liaison Officer I asked “who” he received his appointment from since he had two nominating sources and it was unclear to us which he was being “charged” to. At that point in time – this was mid January – I was informed that both slates were just 10 unranked nominations, but because he had an LOA he was not charged against either the Congressman or Senator, so that the Academy now could compete the remaining 9 kids on their slate, thus getting the best possible class. She stated he just needed the nomination; it was up to the Academy how they created their incoming class. Yes he went into the pool at large but did he wait until his “number” came up within that pool - no - as the letter stated He was Guaranteed an Appointment. As soon as he completed the remaining “requirement” the Appointment arrived.</p>
<p>This explanation was also repeated at the CVW we attended late in January.</p>
<p>LOA with all admission requirements met = Guaranteed Appointment</p>
<p>Profmom2,
First off, none of my comments mention anything about guarantees or odds. I am simply stating the federally mandated procedure. Non primary nominated LOAs become qualified alternates. By justification of their LOA, they are among the top qualified of these alternates. LOAs do require alternate nominations to be qualified alternates. </p>
<p>My guess is that the Admissions Office had enough info on one of competitive slates to ascertain that your son was the top candidate. And he will count against whichever's MOC's total quota of five total midshipmen at the Academy.</p>
<p>"All admission requirements" is either a primary nomination or an alternate nomination and ranked high enough among qualified alternates to be selectable out of the national pool. The LOA, by definition, defines the selectablity.</p>
<p>USNA69</p>
<p>We have been told that he did not count against either of the MOC's numbers at the academy. In our state for the class of 2010 one MOC had 9 appoinments of which 6 accepted and are in the Class of 2010, Second MOC, do not know how many were offers of appoinment but has 4 in the Class of 2010 - one being my son. The last MOC has three in the Class of 2010, including my son. Even as late as both receptions last May, neither were claiming that they were the source of the appoinment! He did not apply for a VP nomination. Our B&G thought that they move the LOA's around to where ever they can place them to get them off of the MOC's slates so that the academy can get the best class. </p>
<p>The "math" to fill the incoming class has been discussed at lengths on this forum. If you do the math, they would never fill the incoming class to 1200+ plebes, so "other" things must be happening.</p>
<p>The Law may dictate one thing but in practice ....</p>
<p>Profmom2,
Look at shogun's link. Add up all the congressional and service connected sources of acquisitions and divide by 4. Note that each MOC has 5 total allocated. No where is it qualified in relation to LOAs. Also note that immediately below these two sources is the heading of "Other Qualified Candidates" with "Qualified Alternates" being the first subheading. No where is LOAs listed. One arrives at a number of around 880. </p>
<p>Now go to the somewhat faulty arithmetic of Addendum #1. In paragraph 3 he acknowledges the primary nominations from above, listing them as 841. He then moves to Title 10, US Code and commences describing the qualified alternate selection process for the remainder of the class. </p>
<p>If LOAs don't count or are not in the pool, where do the show up in the above example?</p>
<p>LOAs are simply Academy generated self interest ploys that are not a part of the federally mandated laws governing appointments. The Academys fit them in as best they can. Yes, if the candidate successfully completes all the other requirements, they are a guarantee. Do they somehow mysteriously circumvent federal law? No.</p>
<p>I never said anything about is being in connection to LOA's. I just know from our experience that our Son was not charged against his MOC's and was taken off of their slates when he received his LOA. This may not be the case for all LOA's, never said it was. This is not a staightforward prococes and I beleive, as do many others, that the Academy doesn't really want you to be able to figure out the "system."</p>
<p>There is no catagory LOA, which is why no one knows how many are handed out each year. I just have been told that "typically" they are not charged against the MOC, they may be, they may be in the 320+ that no one knows where they come from, they may be in the Supes numbers. Who knows! All I can say is we know that our son was not charged against either MOC and those were the only two nominating sources that we know about. The question was asked to the MOC's staff and answered for "our case."</p>