music as a hook

College Majors Music Major
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<p>since i've heard that hooks are good to have, i was evaluating what mine could be.</p>

<p>i already participate in school band and orchestra, plus honors band and orchestra. i also went to the wvu honors band thing and got 3rd chair in the highest level band. i have played two instruments for more than 8 years and taken lessons for maybe 5 years for both. i also play another instrument just within school at a beginning level and i play piccolo a bit since i play flute. so, i would consider myself to be talented, however, i am sure there are many others out there who are talented, and i am not an extreme musical genious. so, do i have a good chance at separating myself from others with good credentials like these? especially since i play flute and piano which are so common? i am hoping to be the student music director of our school musical next year so that could be good. also, just a note, i am doing these things because i have a lot of fun and i want to progress, not so they look good on my college application!</p>

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<p>it depends what school you are looking at. plenty of all state musicians are turned away from harvard.</p>

<p>but it is a strong EC regardless & at a "lesser" school it may be a hook...i suppose a hook is something truly original. depending on the caliber of the applicant pool, your skills may be original or they may not be.</p>

<p>hope that helps.</p>

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<p>If your definition of a "hook" is an unusual or rare ability or activity that sets you apart from the applicant pool, music would not be it. There are plenty of people who play piano, or violin, or flute. Lots of them do it because their parents made them take private lessons, or because they have to be in it in school. If you want to make music a strong spot on your application, you have to demonstrate that you really love playing your instrument: i.e., apart from a few other clubs and hobbies, music was the majority of my college application. In addition, if you are considering applying to a school that is heavily music-based, or a conservatory, you should audition for their program.</p>

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<p>Could you see yourself at a conservatory? If you answer no to this question, music is not a hook for you.</p>

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<p>music is rarely a hook</p>

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<p>ok thanks for the responses!</p>

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<p>Music for less common instruments can still be a good hook for the most elite colleges.</p>

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<p>i don't really know what you mean by "hook"...however, i know that music has probably helped me in applying to colleges. i probably will end up getting a double major in bio and music, and at one of the schools i auditioned for music at i received merit scholarships. so, though i was turned away from many of the schools i auditioned at, that one did really count. i think i'll end up attending that school as well.</p>

<p>so, if you want to know if music can help you, it definitely can. you just have to figure out how hard you're willing to try and how far you're willing to go with it!</p>

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<p>My DD is an oboe/English horn player. She is one of the top 2 or 3 oboes in the state this year. This did NOT help her in the college acceptance process or merit aid process AT ALL....and her instruments are very much needed everywhere she has been accepted. The schools' music departments are delighted that she has been accepted, and that she owns her own English horn. She has had very positive interactions with the departments re: opportunities for her as a non-major and those are very very available to her because they NEED her to play her instrument in their ensembles. BUT...for admissions...well, they were not affected by her music playing. Now...she did write both her essay and personal statement about her involvement in music. But I don't call that a "hook".</p>

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<p>to have music as a hook, you need to be at the level where you are a competitive applicant at Curtis and a potential acceptee at Juilliard. Anything lower than that does not provide a hook. Awards aren't nearly as important as your playing ability, but are often correlated (but not always), so send a killer CD.</p>

<p>Music will be a strong factor (not hook) in your app if you meet sort of these qualifications:</p>

<p>Outstanding musician in a nationally known youth orchestra or conservatory prep programs: GBYSO, NYSO, PYO, COYO, CYSO, AYP and those Cali Youth Orchs. Juilliard Pre-College, NEC Prep, Interlochen, Idyllwild, Settlement Music School.</p>

<p>Participation in a nationally known summer program: Interlochen, Aspen, Tanglewood, Eastern Music Festival, Brevard, Blossom, Yellowbarn, and ENCORE (the latter 3 for strings)</p>

<p>Or you could win concerto competitions with major orchs (Philly, NYP, BO, CO, or Cleveland) etc..</p>

<p>Consider the NFAA program too. Music "recruits," if you will, have talent of the Presidential Scholar in Arts Caliber.</p>

<p>Something that does NOT matter is how long you've played your instrument...or who you study with, etc..</p>

<p>All-state doesn't really help, because the fact is, most of the national caliber musicians choose not to participate in all-state</p>

1 Like
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<p>I disagree with the other posters. Don't forget that many of the people on this forum are looking at the top schools in the country, and those who frequent this music forum are incredibly talented musicians looking at conservatories. Is that you? Not everyone is so blessed, but that doesn't mean you can't use your music to your advantage. It depends on what kind of school you are looking at. If you want to know if music is a hook at an Ivy league or other highly selective school, the answer is no. But if you are considering small LACs (but not those that specilaize in music like Oberlin), where you would be above the average caliber of their music majors, then your music may help you. It won't help you get into the school if you don't meet their standards, but it could sway them if you are in the middle of their pool of applicants, AND they need your instrument. It could also net you some scholarship money. You need to contact schools and find out what their needs will be when you will be starting school. Get in touch with band directors and keep in touch with the ones who show interest. You need to find the school that fits YOU, not the one that may be most prestigious. There are lots of schools out there where you could get a great education, enjoy playing your music and perhaps even get some scholarship money while doing it.</p>

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<p>Music can be used as a hook for Ivy League schools, even at Princeton and Harvard. That is the level to which I was speaking of for music as a hook. When you reach a certain level, it will not matter if your instrument is in need, they will want you. </p>

<p>I bet music was used as a hook to help this guy get into Princeton</p>

<p><a href="http://www.nfaa.org/alumni/P_bio.cfm?alumni_id=26995%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nfaa.org/alumni/P_bio.cfm?alumni_id=26995&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://presidentialscholars.org/scholars_state2.asp?school_state=NY&offset=15%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://presidentialscholars.org/scholars_state2.asp?school_state=NY&offset=15&lt;/a> <-- scroll down to "Lauren Carpenter" or "Won-Jin Jo," whose musical abilities probably served as a hook to Princeton and Harvard. That is what is needed to have music as a hook for Ivy League schools.</p>

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<p>But, that type of talent, as the kid who chose Princeton, is the type potential conservatory kids usually have. It's rarer that someone would have played at the pre-conservatory level, won competitions, etc. and then just decide to bag it all. </p>

<p>99% of high school musicians do not play at the level of Mr. Carpenter, whether they want to go to a conservatory like Juilliard or a college like Princeton.</p>

<p>For lay musicians, (and there are thousands and thousands), many of whom are really very solid on their instruments, music probably isn't much of a hook at all. But, I also don't think one has to be of the level of the Princeton admittee either.</p>

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<p>David Carpenter studies with Roberto Diaz. He could have gone to Curtis. Some corrections to the chosen ones previous listing. It's not NYSO, its NYYS (New York Youth Symphony), and no other youth orchestra is up to our level, its impossible (our winds/brass are mostly conservatory kids, primarily from msm if they are....minus trumpets. we kicked out 3 amazing trumpets in the beginning of the year...btw, we need trumpets). I also must disagree with you with your all-state fact. Many top-notch musicians, even those who want to be professionals, go to all-state. However, an all-state music designation only has weight if you are in a state with a hotbed. ex: NY, OH, IL, and maybe some others. NY is probably tops because it has so many top conservatories, and not just in NYC. Ohio has CIM and Oberlin, and Illinois has Chi town.</p>

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<p>You probably need exceptional talent for music to help with an Ivy admission. Even that sort of admission makes little sense. Why would an exceptional musical talent want to go to a school with mediocre music opportunities?</p>

<p>For many schools, music can be a help. Usually the level of music required to make a difference has to be very high. 25% of HS students play an instrument so you need to be good. Also it helps if they need/want someone good for your specific instrument. Usually admissions doesn't even know that the music dept could use a good tuba player. You may need to visit the music dept to get noticed.</p>

<p>You can be "unhooked" by music. My D wanted to do both science and music; ideally, a double degree. My D applied to Oberlin and the Oberlin conservatory. She was not accepted by the conservatory. Even though her academics were solid, she was also rejected by Oberlin College. Maybe that was just coincidental bad luck, but the same thing happened at BU. I think the adcoms made the right decision. Without music, my D did not fit and would not have been happy. So if you try to use music as a hook, be careful. If you do not fit the music needs, you may be unhooked from the academics.</p>

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<p>My son thought that music performance might be a hook for him. He wants to continue playing but will not play professionally and probably will not major in music either. He was rejected from an Ivy where he met with the Performance Director who said he advocated for my son with Admissions. This occurred at an Ivy where we heard the school is trying to improve its performance ensembles but that many ensembles are not on a level with our high school and all state groups. At a second Ivy, he corresponded with a Music Dept assistant professor (plays same instrument) who emailed that he listened to my son's CD and sent the highest recommendation possible for admission. Didn't help much with those schools but possibly helped with a few
smaller LACs -- hard to know. He was admitted to another Ivy where he recently met with an ensemble conductor who was very helpful and supportive -- but this was after the fact.</p>

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<p>Does state recognized composition (soon to be national... hopefully, I am doing the Cleveland Symphony Program for young composers) in many ways - State Composer of the Year, internship with the biggest music group in the state (MN), AND 2 time all stater work as a hook?</p>

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<p>Any special honors and recognition would be noted. To be honest, All State participation is NOT a hook. As I noted above, DD participated in precollege ensembles for three years, and was in numerous regional festivals including All State. She is an oboe and English horn player and this did not help her one bit in her college acceptances or financial aid awards. The music department where she is attending college is happy to have her, but they had no impact at all on her acceptance or finaid. She is taking a minor in music.</p>

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<p>Oh I realize that. There are some 400-500 kids that get in each year. The thing is, I do a lot of comp and I hopefully will get some nat'l recognition for it. So I meant comp + saxophone in one big bundle.</p>

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<p>Being a three-time All State musician didn't help my son get any financial aid to study music. :( But, I believe what got him admitted to music programs was his talent. The financial aid he did get was the result of academic merit. :)</p>