Music at Princeton, anyone?

<p>My D is currently looking at the top East Coast schools' music programs, where she could successfully double-major or minor in music along with some serious academic studies in another field. Particularly, one of the questions we have for each program is whether the cost of private music lessons subsidized in any way.</p>

<p>The "music performance certificate" program at Princeton looks interesting. But, they say on its web-site, musicians are auditioned for it in the spring of their sophormore year and, if admitted (as juniors and seniors), then get their private lessons subsidized. Nothing is said what students do with their private instrument studies in their freshman and sophormore years, how they get their teachers and how much does it cost to them.</p>

<p>Any information on this matter would be appreciated.</p>

<p>For freshman and sophomore years, I know at least that you can get your music lessons half-subsidized if you are in certain ensembles like the orchestra; even ensembles with no audition required will get you the half-subsidy. Also, if you take certain MUS classes you can get either a full or half subsidy (not sure which, as I am not taking those classes yet). Right now, I'm in Sinfonia (which anyone can join, basically) with a half-subsidy for my clarinet lessons. I think the full cost is around $64 per lesson for an hour, so the subsidy is nice.</p>

<p>Some private lessons require auditions if they are popular instruments (I'm guessing piano and the like), but most don't.</p>

<p>(Penn subsidizes music lessons, I've heard.) <em>hides to avoid being hated for mentioning any other school's name</em></p>

<p>One thing I've heard about Princeton is that it has a ton of vocal groups--like the most in the country or something.</p>

<p>jon314, thanks, my D (choir-crazy person) would appreciate that. :-)</p>

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<p>And what other Ivies do?</p>

<p>The music certificate program is widely pursued here at Princeton. Your daughter may find herself in Glee Club. Members of Glee Club can receive vocal lessons that are half-subsidized. A good number of freshmen join Glee Club each year.</p>

<p>She is mostly interested in private piano studies, violin (and piano) orchestra/ensemble playing and choir/small ensemble singing. She is doing all that now, at h/s, but is not sure whether she would be able to continue it at college.</p>

<p>She'll definitely be able to continue all of them while pursuing a music certificate. For example, she could join the Princeton University Orchestra which also subsidizes private lessons. Then join one of the a cappella groups. The music culture here at Princeton is one of the most cohesive, I'm sure she'd enjoy it! If she does what I propose in this post, she'll be spending two hours or more a day either in rehearsal, performance, personal practice, or a music related class. I hope she's ready for that!</p>

<p>This article from the current Princeton Alumni Weekly should give you a pretty good feel for what it's like to be a serious musician on campus:</p>

<p>Making music on campus
Students combine performance and studies in building careers</p>

<p>Violinist Caitlin Tully ’10 could have gone to a conservatory instead of to college. She performs as a soloist with major symphonies in the United States and in Europe and takes private lessons with famed violinist Itzhak Perlman in New York City. Music could have been her whole life, but she chose to come to Princeton because she wanted to broaden her education. She didn’t want to grow into an adult who knew only musicians, she says, and the better musicians she talked with told her to go to college — that the education would show up in her music. So far, she thinks her decision is paying off: “My music is becoming fuller and better.” </p>

<p>Few students arrive at Princeton already having established a professional music career as Tully has done. But, there are other outstanding student musicians on campus who want to make music their future livelihood and, like Tully, chose to attend Princeton and couple their musical training with a liberal arts education. They like the variety of studying a range of disciplines and getting to know students who are passionate about things besides music. Says Dean Reynolds ’07, a talented jazz bass player, “Some of my best inspirations for pieces have come from dialogues with non-musicians.” </p>

<p>Tully, who fell in love with the violin as she listened to the radio, and begged her parents to give her one for Christmas when she was 4 years old, practices several hours a day. As she works on a piece, she often figures out the “emotional story” behind the music. And she interprets the music based on “what makes most sense given the composers [and] the time in which they wrote.” </p>

<p>Since coming to Princeton Tully has cut back on her concert commitments to allow herself to settle into college life and make friends. On March 22–26, she will play Mozart’s “Concerto in G Major” with the Houston Symphony and in April will play several pieces at a recital at the Louvre in Paris. </p>

<p>To avoid missing classes, she works with her agent at IMG Artists to try to schedule concerts on weekends. Occasionally she does have to miss a class, however. “The life I have here is one of constant balance,” she says. This semester she has begun playing chamber music on campus through the Pro-gram in Musical Performance. </p>

<p>Her busy schedule of studies and practice doesn’t leave much margin for illness, printer breakdowns, or doing laundry. But she loves both Princeton and performing and wants to do it all. She knows that after college, her life will revolve around music and traveling to concerts. “I never wanted to do anything else as a career,” she says. </p>

<p>Geoff McDonald ’07 is not a professional, yet he is on his way to making a career in music. The assistant conductor of the University Orchestra, he is the most advanced conducting student for his age that Michael Pratt, conductor of the University Orchestra and director of the Program in Musical Performance, has seen at Princeton in 30 years. This spring he is busy auditioning for graduate school in hopes of obtaining a master’s degree in conducting. </p>

<p>McDonald has been conducting orchestras or choirs since his sophomore year of high school and been playing piano since age 5 and cello since age 10. He wanted to come to Princeton because he likes enriching his music with his academic studies, and the flexibility to continue studying voice, cello, and piano at the same time that he is developing as a conductor. It’s hard to say how many hours a day he practices because so much of what he does revolves around music — whether studying the composer Gustav Mahler for his thesis in the music department, dissecting a Beethoven score in preparing to conduct the University Orchestra or Sinfonia, singing with the Katzenjammers, or playing cello or piano with the orchestra. Had he chosen to go to a conservatory, he says, he might not have had such a varied experience and likely would not have been able to conduct until his senior year. </p>

<p>In January, he brought to life Beethoven’s “Coriolan” overture as he conducted the University Orchestra in Vienna. For a young conductor, the idea of interpreting a master’s score in the city where he built his reputation might seem daunting. But McDonald demonstrated the quiet confidence and knowledge of the composer that indicate the promise ahead. “Conductors cook very slowly,” says Pratt, and some of their best work occurs after age 60. But he sees “tremendous potential” in McDonald. For each score, says Pratt, a conductor must be able to answer two key questions: what he wants the work to sound like, and how to get the musicians to produce that sound. McDonald, says Pratt, “is on his way to being able to do that.” </p>

<p>McDonald hopes to join other talented alumni who are making a career of conducting, such as Hobart Earle ’83, conductor of the Odessa Philharmonic Orchestra in Ukraine, and Katherine FitzGibbon ’98, who is a conductor at Cornell University this year while she is finishing her doctorate in conducting at Boston University. </p>

<p>While McDonald and Tully came to Princeton knowing that music was their future, Reynolds wasn’t sure at first that he wanted to make a career of it. Reynolds, who began playing bass with a jazz ensemble in sixth grade, wanted to continue his jazz education in college but thought he might major in math. After getting more involved in the music department, he realized he wanted not only to major in music but also to make a job of it. “When I was in high school, jazz was once a week after school for about an hour and 10 Saturdays a year, and now it’s pretty much every day,” says Reynolds. Anthony Branker ’80, the head of Princeton’s jazz program, calls Reynolds one of the most talented jazz musicians on campus. </p>

<p>Reynolds, whose thesis deals with the challenges non-African composers face when writing African-inspired music, anchors a number of jazz ensembles as a bass player, plays for fun with a reggae band, composes music, and is studying piano. After graduation, Reynolds plans on moving to Philadelphia, where he will compose and perform gigs with drummer Chuck Staab ’07, tenor sax player Ben Wasserman ’07, and other musicians. Ultimately he hopes to attend graduate school to study ethnomusicology. </p>

<p>After four years at Princeton, he says, “I feel like a completely different player.”</p>

<p>Would only national-caliber musicians (like those from the article) have a chance at Princeton and its musical program? Are those kids look more like ordinary or exceptional there?</p>

<p>Those kids are exceptional. There are lots of excellent musicians on campus who both study and perform without intending to do music professionally.</p>

<p>And YoYo Ma went to Harvard. But he, like Caitlin Tully, arrived at college with management -- the real question is whether a talented musician who could go to a conservatory but is not yet at the level of YoYo Ma or Caitlin Tully would thrive at Princeton as anything more than a strong amateur musician. For most, I think it would be very difficult. Traveling to NY for lessons, even if you could get Itzhak Perelman to agree to be your teacher, would also be expensive and time-consuming.</p>

<p>I know of a number of students at Princeton who travel to New York City regularly to take lessons from Juilliard teachers; indeed, many of these students are graduates of the Juilliard pre-college program who have continued to work with their Juilliard teachers while at Princeton. In some cases, I understand that Princeton will subsidize these lessons. Alternatively, a student who belongs to certain musical groups can take half subsidized lessons with Princeton staff and those in the music certificate program can take fully subsidized lessons. I know the Princeton orchestra consists both of students who are sufficiently talented that they could have attended Juilliard or other top conservatories as well as students who might have been All State but probably are not at the level where a career in music would have been a serious option. The orchestra travels abroad every two year during intercession week to give concerts, and if a student cannot afford the cost of the trip, financial aid is available.
In addition to Princeton, Columbia and Juilliard and Harvard and NEC has formal joint programs, although I hear that the Columbia/Julliard one is very difficult and most students end up dropping out of the joint program and end up getting their degree from one or the other schools.
I got the distinct impression when visiting Penn that musical performance is not a priority of the school. On the other hand, Princeton is just launching a $100 million initiative in the performing and visual arts.</p>

<p>The Columbia-Juilliard program is essentially a Columbia program -- with lessons at Juilliard, and then a reaudition for the 5 year masters program; if you drop out, you end up at Columbia, not Juilliard. Juilliard teachers often will not take students who were not their pre-Juilliard students; they also charge a lot for the lessons -- one of the reasons they take so few into the Columbia-Juilliard program is that Columbia, which does pay for lessons, only pays about $60 per lesson. But this thread is about Princeton. It may be an exaggeration to assume that many of the musicians could have gotten into Juilliard, which accepts about 5% of its applicants, but doubtless there are many excellent musicians who chose to go to Princeton (and Harvard, where the opportunities are superior). I've heard mixed things about the quality of the Princeton orchestra. The main thing is that if you want to be a musician, that aspect of your education is extracurricular at Princeton, where much of your time will be necessarily taken up with writing junior and senior theses, and even if you major in music, it is taught solely as an academic subject.</p>

<p>I just got this email (this is for pton):</p>

<p>Dear Students,</p>

<p>If you are in the following categories, here's how billing for private music lessons works:</p>

<p>Graduate Students, Music Majors, Performance Certificate Students, PU String Quartet:
no charge to your student account, your lessons are fully subsidized and paid for by
the Department.</p>

<p>Students enrolled in MUS 106, MUS 206, MUS 213, MUS 214, MUS 313 and/or members of the PU Orchestra, PU Sinfonia, PU Glee Club/Chamber Choir, or
PU Jazz Ensembles: If you are eligible, you will receive your half-subsidy as a credit to your student account at the end of the spring term.</p>

<p>Everybody else pays in full.</p>

<p>Columbia pays in full for lessons (at their rate) for all majors; selection is by audition. It also pays for lessons for graduate students! On the other hand, it has a shortage of practice rooms. There are more at Princeton.</p>

<p>Just because I would feel amiss (not sure how to spell that word) if i did not post in this thread, I would like to add that I, a bass trombonist who has gone basically as far as any high school bass trombonist could go with music and could probably have gotten into a couple prestigious conservatories, consider Princeton my top choice, and I would like to ultimately become a composer or trombone performer. They have, from what I hear, a great music department and in terms of BA music degree programs they are among the absolute best in the nation.</p>

<p>They do have an excellent musicology department, though two of its most well-reputed professors recently left for Harvard, so there are some lacunae; no doubt they will hire someone from Berkeley or Chicago (or Harvard) and up the ante again.
Good luck to you.</p>

<p>A lot of people have talked about the music department, but I'd like to add that there are TONS of opportunities to get involved in student-run ensembles as well. </p>

<p>If your daughter is interested in small choral groups, I strongly encourage her to look into the a cappella scene. A cappella at Princeton is top-notch, and as a recent member of one of its many groups, I can say that it is one of the most rewarding experiences I've had at Princeton. Please let me know if you have any questions.</p>