Music Major vs Music Theatre Major. Or Crossover?

College Majors Musical Theater Major
1

Hi! I am reposting from the Music Major Forum and hoping to get some advice from all of you. Thanks in advance!

Hoping to get more wonderful advice from all of you! DS has done some evolving these last few months, as predicted.

To overview his background and hopefully not to repeat with those of you who have read my posts before:

He has been classically trained in voice (baritone, district and state 1’s and perfect score once, love that judge) for the past four years, as well as being active in the musical and theatre arts in school and community music and music theatre productions, and has been entrusted with leading and supporting roles. He has found through those experiences that he has a passion for musical theatre in addition to classical voice. Though this is what he can most envision himself studying over the next four years, he would like some insight as to if it might be a better idea for him to continue the classical path in voice for his education as a vocal performance major, or to pursue a musical theatre degree. We have also been advised that there is some cross over these days between the two.

He is also successful academically and in leadership, having been class president the last three years and now Exec Student Body President and NHS President. He maintains a 4.46 GPA, AP courses, high ACT and SATs,and has led community outreach in the arts and charities.

So, he has two loves-arts and leadership. In hoping to combine the two in some way, whether in undergraduate studies, minors, or grad school; we are looking at the following schools:

(In no particular order)

Carnegie Mellon
CCM
U Mich
U Indy
Belmont
Vanderbilt

Outliers are

UNT
SMU
Baylor
UNC

A lot of these are schools that are being recommended because of his academics and possibilities for scholarships. Our feeling now is that he should go after his heart while he is young, still having a view to a backup plan with leadership and arts management. We are just not sure which path to pursue and which school would be best? Any and all opinions are welcome. I do trust this forum.

Please, if any of you have knowledge or advice about these schools or others, we would love it. We are aware that these schools are all different in the degrees they offer so any help navigating would be awesome. So not sure what path to take at this point and need to get there!

I’m going to post this in both Music Major and Musical Theatre Major Forums. Thanks in advance everyone!

2

How vested is your S in continuing to pursue his leadership and other interests outside of music while in college? Getting a BFA in MT, or in many cases a BM, is extremely time consuming and often does not allow for much in the way of outside pursuits. You list his loves as Arts and Leadership. How interested is HE in pursuing an academically rigorous education? There are some excellent MT programs out there that are in less-academically-selective schools who would “pay” well for his academic stats - up to full ride. There are also some other very academically rigorous schools that have excellent theater/MT programs that may not necessarily be BFA/BM - or that require audition/application after freshman year

How actively does your S want to pursue the Acting and Dance aspects of MT? Some of the schools on your list encourage crossover between Music programs and MT (at IU VPs can audition for plays/musicals and MTs can audition for operas)), but others allow very little crossover (CCM). While there is some change going on in the classical voice world that is trying to bring in more singers who can act and “move” (my baritone MT BFA junior S is being encouraged to audition for a singing role in an opera next summer) that doesn’t necessarily translate to being able to get a lot of acting and dance training while attaining a VP major. The D of a friend is pursuing a VP major and says there is an “alarming” trend on the classical voice world - folks spending too much time at the gym and not enough time in the practice studio so the vocal technique is suffering. I don’t know how true that is, but to “make the grade” as an MT performer dance and acting abilities have become more essential. A young baritone who can dance has a good chance at being able to pay the bills in ensemble roles. A baritone who can act will age well into lead roles. Playing an instrument (or 2 or 5) is also very helpful. So, does your S love ALL aspects of the MT Arts? Or is it just the singing that floats his boat? At some schools - especially with BFAs, if you are in the Music Department it is difficult to get into dance/acting classes that are in the Theater Department and if you are MT it may be difficult to get into higher level music theory (it that’s your thing). Does your S want to be in vocal ensembles, CCM requires it as part of the MT degree. At other schools you may be encouraged, but in reality it doesn’t fit into the schedule w/o giving up something else. What does your S see as the absolute “deal breakers” in finding his “best fit”?

3

For all of those schools I would do a lot of due diligence as to what training he will get in what degree program. Some vocal performance programs do not allow students to study musical theatre and some musical theatre programs do not study classical music. So just make sure the training you desire is there.

Please be aware as an MT major at Carnegie Mellon, academics are not a prerequisite as they are for the rest of the university. They take the most talented for their needs regardless of academics. So don’t be surprised if some of the students in the program are not necessarily as strong academically as your son.

Other schools with great academics, voice and MT training that you may want to add to your list would include:

Northwestern
Penn State
NYU Steinhardt
TCU

Your son sounds very similar to our D. She was heavily involved in leadership and community service in high school . I will tell you about the school our D attends as it is the one about which I know the most. If you are interested in a both a Vocal Performance and MT degree, I would recommend you look at Oklahoma City University. It is a small, private liberal arts college. Although its academics certainly do not compete with Vanderbilt or Michigan, they are competitive with the other schools on your current list. This year’s freshman class in the Bass School of music has an average ACT of 26 and average GPA of 3.73. So again, not Vanderbilt stats, but strong. Your son’s stat’s would make him eligible for a lot of scholarship $. They have a program called OCULeads which some MTs are eligible for. They meet and network with local, regional and national leaders throughout the 4 years (D has met everyone from local bank presidents to Sister Rosemary of Uganda and former Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O’Connor as part of this program). It also provides some scholarship $. I think your son would be a great candidate for that program. MTs can also be found in the Blue Tie Ambassador program. And in leadership positions in many student organizations around campus. If he comes in with a lot of AP credits, he could also find a minor or double major. If he is big on community service, there is the Center for Nonprofit Leadership at OCU in which he can take classes. If time allows, they do provide some sort of certification program if you can fit in all the classes. Both the VP and MT programs have a classical foundation, and you can double major in both. And as a major in either you will audition for all operas and musicals each semester. Grads have good success in being hired in opera and MT and arts management (D has an MT friend who interned with Telsey & Co. this summer; another who worked for the social media marketing firm that handles social media for Hamilton, etc…)

Another smaller school to consider with similar academics to OCU is Baldwin-Wallace. I do not know as much about what other opportunities are available there on campus. I do not think there is as much crossover between VPs and MTs at BW as there is at OCU. I don’t believe you will see MTs in operas there. But you could ask.

Both OCU and BW offer a Bachelor of Music rather than a BFA.

One advantage of smaller schools is there may be more leadership opportunities available. So something else to think about.

Best of luck to you!

4

I know @kategrizz and @artskids can elaborate better on BW, but I know they are able to try out for Opera. In fact they received audition notices for the Opera and were invited to audition. I think participating or not is about choice and goals.

5

James Madison University in VA has both a BA in Musical Theatre (in the School of Theatre and Dance), and a BM in Voice with an emphasis in Music Theatre. The programs are structured differently, and administered separately, but there is some crossover in coursework types of material covered in voice lessons. Students in either can audition for Operas, Musicals, and Plays.

James Madison also has service learning opportunities, and as an undergraduate focused university, has lots of opportunities for undergrads to be involved in leadership and research.

6

re: BW: the lead in the opera last year was an MT and there are often VP majors in the musicals. There is cross-over and cross over opportunities but generally, the opera roles go to the VP majors because they earn the parts. A student with those stats would certainly want to look at the Honors program and the varied leadership opportunities offered through that program. My S (an MT) is in the Honors program but, given his schedule, cannot really take advantage of leadership opportunities. They are rehearsing most evenings and have masterclass on about 1/2 of the Saturdays during the semester. He does work his volunteer requirements in but just barely. The VP majors would be dealing with the same scheduling challenges during semesters in which they are cast in productions.

I think one of the most important lessons he has learned is he cannot do everything if he wants to do anything really well. He’s backed off some of his other outside commitments this year in order to focus on what’s on his plate at school.

7

My oldest daughter attends Vanderbilt, though not as a music major. (Though she does participate in audition-only choirs.). So if you have specific questions regarding Vandy as a whole, I’d be happy to help.

Here is my advice - and this has nothing to do with Music/MT specific schools, but if finances are at all a consideration, this may matter. With academic stats (though you didn’t post his ACT, I will assume it’s 32-33+) like his, I would advice you to skew searches one-level down from the elites like any of the Ivies, Vandy, U of Mich. If my oldest would have, she would’ve most likely received full rides (tuition + room and board) from a treasure trove of schools. Your sons stats may gain him entrance to a Top 20 school (but they’re all lottery schools regardless) but the lower echelon privates will fall all over themselves to give him money.

(Please excuse any typos or weird auto corrects - I’m one finger tapping on my phone.)

8

Some schools that have not been mentioned with a lot of crossover between MT and VP with decent to very good academics:

  • Florida State
  • Arizona State
  • Pepperdine
  • SMU: you major in VP and minor in MT, possibly a very good fit (I would recommend this over Baylor and TCU given your son's interests - all three schools cost about the same and give about the same level of merit scholarships)
  • Tulane

A LAC-type school with great academics and good theatre and music that you may want to look into is William and Mary.

Another program to look into is Illinois Wesleyan. With good grades and test scores you can get more than a 50% ride and they seem to have a lot of flexibility to participate in MT while majoring in VP or vice-versa.

To second a school already mentioned, Penn State’s vocal program in MT is based on “bel canto - can belto” which may be a good fit in a school with solid academics.

Although Shenandoah’s MT program is famous for focusing on developing a rock-pop sound, they have one of the best classically-trained bass-baritone voice teachers around in Matthew Edwards.

To plug my d’s school, Western Michigan has excellent vocal training for MT’s with the option to minor in Music. The Music department partners with the Theatre Department once-every-other-year in staging a large musical (this year it’s Showboat). Unlike some other programs, they encourage minors and dual majors, although without AP credits or summer school it can be hard to fit all the hours in. WMU offers online courses that can be taken in the summer away from campus and a “May term” that allows students to squeeze in extra hours. They offer good academic scholarships and in-state tuition if you go to both sessions of summer school for one summer. The Fine Arts programs are an important focus at the school and are exclusively audition-based BFA’s in all disciplines and the average GPA in the School of Fine Arts is 3.53 for incoming freshman (an Honors College option is available). WMU is one of only eight schools in the nation and the only school in Michigan to have achieved accreditation in all fine arts disciplines (Art, Music, Theatre, Dance) by NAST, NASD, NASAD, and NASM.

9

The BM degree in VP through Steinhardt sounds like the type of program you are looking for. The same faculty teaches voice for both Classical and MT students (there are two tracts in the program)–the repertoire is different, but both cross over to a certain extend and share some classes.

D did classical and art songs as well as scenes from a musical as part of her senior recital as someone with a MT concentration.

The emphasis of the program is pre-belting MT, although by senior year, there is more of an exposure to more modern shows and healthy belting.

Overall the emphasis is more on voice than acting or dance, but students do fine auditioning if they have natural talent for both and have the option of supplementing NYU dance instruction with NYC dance classes which are abundant and fairly inexpensive. (Recent grads have had leads/ ensemble parts in dance-heavy musicals on Bdway).

As for academics, they are top notch and there are plenty of opportunities to integrate the student with other non-music major students through EC’s and minors (or possibly double majors.)

There’s also the ability for internships throughout the city. They were very do-able throughout the school year, even though D was often taking 18 credits and had two minors.

Plenty of leadership opportunities on and off campus. D was president of her school, too. She ended up being president of Players Club, the student run MT group at Steinhardt and put a lot of time into internships at Sony, Scott Rudin and Dreamworks while in school.

Good luck!

10

Chiming in with @artskids and @IfYouOnlyKnew - The MT and the VP degrees at Baldwin Wallace are both MUSIC degrees - so you earn a bachelors of music in both (and have the requisite music theory that goes with that)- and as @artskids has already mentioned - there is crossover. There are definitely more VP’s cast in the operas and more MT’s in the musicals - but both are welcomed to audition for either - and are cast. Based on what you wrote - I think you should look into BW as a possibility. All BW music majors have ensemble requirements - so choir would be part of his college experience in either major at BW. My D definitely works on classical repertoire in addition to MT. She PREFERS to work on the MT - but for juries, etc. classical rep is still required. As has been mentioned - your S’s great stats will help with academic scholarship money! My D had great HS stats - which really helped her get scholarship offers during her audition year.

One thing that has not been noted - that is probably worth noting - it will be more difficult to gain admission for a spot in any of the musical theater programs that have been mentioned in this thread than any of the vocal performance programs at the same schools.

Best of luck to you and your son as you begin this journey!

11

It sounds like BW and OCU are very similar in the way their degree programs are set up. At OCU, the foundation of both degrees (VP and MT) is classical training. VPs and MTs are in the same voice studios with the same professors and do share other classes such as piano, aural skills, music theory, etc… And as mentioned before, all must audition for all operas and musicals. They are also required to be in a choir or ensemble all 4 years. The junior recital for MTs is classical repertoire. Their senior recital is MT repertoire. Juries each semester. MTs get 12 credits of dance which VPs do not. And more acting classes so that is where they diverge the most.

Sorry for any confusion I may have caused. We have friends in both the VP and MT programs at BW and they have never crossed over into each others majors, so I just assumed there was a separation. Glad to understand how it works there. It is a wonderful program.

12

Wow, thanks for the shout-out @EmsDad! @Sarajanine - you’ve received a lot of good advice here. I would say that the school with the longest track record of cross-training singers is Oklahoma City University. All students have to audition for both musicals and operas. As mentioned above, JMU also has two separate tracks that are good options for those who are torn. Brian DeMaris who is now at Arizona State University has a strong background in opera and musical theatre - his program is worth checking out.

The classical baritone voice takes a long time to develop; it is not unusual to have to wait until your late 20’s to really come into your voice. A musical theatre degree will provide acting and dance training that most classical programs do not offer. After graduation, your son could study with a classical voice teacher and still have plenty of time to get caught-up on any rep that he did not cover in his theatre degree. There are also a lot of performer certificate programs at major universities in classical singing for those who want additional training but do not want the theory, history, and writing courses associated with a masters degree. They usually do not require any specific bachelor degree for admissions (research Indiana University, CCM, Cleveland Institute of Music, Manhattan School of Music, New England Conservatory, and Academy of Vocal Arts to learn more about that option).

The only thing that your son would really miss out on would be the language training. However, with all of the online language training courses, he could study Italian, French, and German on his own. I also think it is easier to transfer into a voice performance degree than a musical theatre degree should he change his mind after his freshmen year. Musical theatre degrees are hard to transfer into because of the four year progression of dance and acting. In vocal performance degrees, it is usually theory and history that will slow people down, but those are only two year sequences at most schools.

~VT

13

I decided to check out the responses here after I responded on the music thread. Just as background my D auditioned for both mt and vp and was accepted into both. She went vp and is a vp grad student now. She also did a paid festival this summer covering a role in opera but was in 2 classic mt shows as well in the ensemble ( and even made a dance line - in the back - haha). While she can still do mt , she’s not going to be a lead nor in the front line dancing. That goes to the mt grads.

I do have a slightly different opinion on only one element on the comment above. In my opinion getting a certificate (a PD or AD) at the schools listed above would require a pretty serious background in opera performance. For example many PDs (or ADs) at IU were foreign, had completed grad school and had even sung professionally. Not all but many were 25-30 and working on English and continuing their development. Some of the talent was stunning and I doubt they were paying tuition. These are coveted spots and hard admits. It’s hard for me to think that any of these schools would be looking to admit someone who hadn’t sung opera roles and didn’t have a good command of language skills (meaning diction training) for a PD. Again I don’t know all schools so maybe a few schools allow this but to perform opera you need specialized training. You are there to perform (hence performance diploma) not study so if you haven’t studied yet it would be tough. Also I feel PDs are pretty sure bets and are there to enhance the schools image and productions - but that’s my opinion - some schools may be different and I only know a subset so…

However I would say that doing an MM in vp after mt training would be completely do-able. And there you could get the diction and theory that is required in order to get roles (you can’t simply study German online and then be in a 3 hour opera singing in German - that takes some specialized training - and diction and theory are so important that’s why they are required). The MM will check your language “diction” for 4 languages and require a theory test plus aural skills, opera history maybe (and will probs require rudimentary work if you haven’t studied all). But a good private teacher while in undergrad or after undergrad could get you ready so you could get admitted and complete the required work to be on the opera stage. Then you can get your PD … and some day in your 30s work… its a long long road.

Btw IU’s sequential requirements in Theory and history would not allow a transfer after freshman year and completion on time. However I think some schools require less and it could be possible. But it should be checked.

14

An additional question… The possibility of hiring an audition coach to help select monologues, vet song choices, and give advice throughout the process was brought up tonight. Is hiring help for the audition process worth it, and if so does anyone know of any good companies or coaches that may be helpful? Does anyone recommend MTCA?

15

There’s a whole thread on this. I would search it. Coaching is very personal. We did not have a coach. But we did have experience from summer programs and friends who had gone through the process. They seem to be help and a lot of people seem to use them. Good luck with the process.

16

@Sarajanine We did use a coach - MTCA in fact - and I cannot say enough good things about my experience with them! As @Ducky312 recommends, look for the thread on coaching for much more information!

17

If his first love is singing, I highly recommend NYU Steinhardt MT. This program is a Music major first and foremost. Excellent musical theory and English, Italian, French, and German Diction are all required. Their productions are fantastic fully staged costumed performances at the Fredrick Lowe Theatre in New York CIty on Washington Square. Freshman can audition second semester for both MT and Opera productions with Males definitely having the advantage… This one should be on his list! NYU Steinhardt students can audition for New Theatre Productions as well, which are campus wide. Steinhardt students often get cast over other studios due to their amazing voices. I can speak with firsthand experience. Will inbox if you want to know details.Plus steinhardt gives great scholarships for talent!

18

Thanks EmsDad and Matt Edwards for the shoutout about ASU. Our program is a BM in Musical Theatre, and while there is an intensive performance focus, our environment is all about training the complete musical theatre “artist.” We have opportunities for students to be leaders on stage and off, including a robust student lab experience in which students do everything, including making their own proposals for projects. There’s lots of room at ASU to explore things beyond the boundaries of the program, and there’s actually room in the degree to do so. We have several double majors. And yes, our program gives lots of opportunity to study musical theatre and opera - as well as television, film, dance, theatre, etc. Feel free to contact us if you have any further questions about ASU!