<p>Anything anyone can tell me would be very appreciated. DS is ecstatic over NEC acceptance but in tears at having to give up Yale. The concern is the heavy academic load, distribution requirements, inadequate practice time and how much of a separation there is psychologically and musically between the School of Music (graduate program) and the undergraduate music majors. It's not a performance major at the undergraduate level. Getting to the teacher is also a concern. DS has written to the chair of the department requesting to be put in touch with a violin studio. (We didn't do this earlier because of the odds against getting into Yale)</p>
<p>I perform regularly with a couple of Yale alums who got their undergrad music degrees there (one conductor and one organist) and later went to a conservatory for grad degrees. They are a joy to work with and are among my favorite musicians. </p>
<p>There are several outstanding undergrad ensembles at yale. Don’t give up on it just because it is not a BM performance degree. Find out who he would study with, get a sample lesson if possible, listen to the student orchestra and chamber groups and take things from there.</p>
<p>Hi Stringkeymom –</p>
<p>We looked at Yale pretty closely last year and concluded that it would not work well for a serious musician at the undergrad level. Unless it has changed, there is no performance major there so your son would have to major in music (theory, composition, etc) and take violin on the side. There are great teachers there, but he might not have access to them except perhaps privately. I don’t know whether he would have access to the Music School orchestra or chamber programs. It would not be anything like going to a conservatory like NEC where all the kids there live and breathe music. I know that my son is playing (practise, rehearsal, lessons, etc) 5-8 hours every day. I can’t imagine how a Yale student could carry the academic load, sleep and still do that. </p>
<p>I happen to know of one student from my son’s old local school who was very talented and advanced on the violin, but decided to go to Yale. She graduated from Yale and is now going to IU Jacobs. She got in with Junior Year standing (probably because of all the theory/ear training etc that she was able to do at Yale). She’s still very good and should be able to have a career, but it’s taking her longer. Perhaps she’ll be able to forego a graduate degree under the circumstances. </p>
<p>There are a lot of ways to make things work, but if your son really wants to go to “music school”, he probably shouldn’t go to Yale undergrad. Maybe he’ll get off the waitlist at Harvard and then he can have his cake and eat it too with a DD.</p>
<p>I see that I’ve crossposted with BassDad who always has sage advice. This gives you two sides of the coin!</p>
<p>Just my 2 cents.</p>
<p>There are no performance undergrad degrees at Yale, and lessons are normally with grad students. It is not the norm for Yale SOM (which is a grad only program) faculty to provide lessons to undergrads. If it happens, it’s usually at the invitation of the instructor, or the result of a previous teacher/student association. On occasion and based on ability and network contingent, your current instructor may have some influence on a faculty member’s decision, but this is so instance specific that it may or may not be applicable.</p>
<p>I believe there is a five year combined BA music/MM perf option in conjunction with Yale SOM. If you want a link, I can probably find it.</p>
<p>As for performing ensembles, there are a number of instrumental ipo’s across varying levels of ability. I believe they virtually all are auditioned based. My opinion is that the level of undergrad talent at Yale is extremely high, and probably has more breath and depth across most instrumentation than any of the other Ivys. There are a number of conservatory level players pursuing non music academic degrees. Some will go on to pursue MM programs after their BA’s.</p>
<p>Our daughter is at Harvard and was upset at giving up NEC! As you know, there are all kinds of ways to do this. I think our daughter may still try to transfer at some point. It is a tough decision, good luck!</p>
<p>And some prior Yale threads:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/510621-yale-undergraduate.html?highlight=Yale[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/510621-yale-undergraduate.html?highlight=Yale</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/369851-yale-school-music.html?highlight=Yale[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/369851-yale-school-music.html?highlight=Yale</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/242843-yale.html?highlight=Yale[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/242843-yale.html?highlight=Yale</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/145994-music-yale.html?highlight=Yale[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/145994-music-yale.html?highlight=Yale</a></p>
<p>As Violadad knows, we’re in the same dilemma about Oberlin Conservatory vs. Columbia for jazz. Got some answers from head of Columbia jazz today–they have 125 jazz students there (I think combined grad and undergrad) which surprised me. But music immersion versus liberal arts and music are the confusing thing. The big question is how much better prepared for grad school and/or a professional career will he come out at either place., and how does being in NYC vs. Ohio factor in. He’s honored to have this choice, but it is NOT one we ever thought he’d have to consider…</p>
<p>Thanks everyone! Things are changing at Yale all the time with regards to the study of music on the undergraduate level. DS will be visiting a couple of times, but it is very helpful to hear from experienced people on this thread.</p>
<p>Violadad, we do know about the joint B.A./M.M. degree and we know of undergraduates at Yale who are studying with faculty from the SOM. DS is scheduled to meet violin faculty soon.</p>
<p>Stringfollies, DS is ok with majoring in theory and composition (he applied and was accepted on both composition and violin at NEC with the idea of declaring a double major at the end of freshman year). Students who are doing this have the opportunity to take private music instruction for credit. It’s curious that at Princeton the situation is somewhat different–almost reversed- as they do offer a certificate in musical performance, but apparently no major in composition.</p>
<p>The issue is, as we all understand it, having time to practice (especially when faced with a heavy academic load), and not just that, but having a context that will support that kind of musical commitment. I don’t mean the general level of playing as I am sure there are many outstanding musicians in the Yale undergraduate student body; some of DS’ friends are there now, double majoring in music and other degrees.</p>
<p>I received a private message indicating that there is a small core of Yale undergraduates focusing on performance who are making music the main emphasis in their time at Yale. </p>
<p>It is very very difficult for DS to imagine giving up NEC for Yale or Princeton, but just as wrenching to contemplate giving up Yale or Princeton for NEC. The violin teacher at NEC did indicate to DS that he could “have his cake and eat it” at Yale, assuming he is accepted into a good studio. But the bottom line is that there is no substitute for the conservatory experience for musical training.</p>
<p>It’s going to be a very tough decision. Thanks, everyone, for sharing your thoughts.</p>
<p>Just to follow up with a bit more information gleaned from ground level: S spent the earlier part of this week up at Yale and met with several faculty. The situation is complicated and I imagine plays out differently for each student. Some of the pros: there are faculty at the School of Music who exist to teach undergrads (music majors or not); if an undergrad is known to be a good musician and an SOM ensemble is short, it often happens that the undergrad will be invited to join SOM ensembles; the SOM practice rooms are apparently magnificent; the undergraduate composer’s collective and the SOM composition students collaborate in inviting guest speakers and workshop leaders; there are many conservatory level musicians who are premed or prelaw at Yale (some due to family pressures) and the level of the music ensembles is very high. Some of the cons: the teacher whose studio my son was interested in teaches SOM students exclusively (not undergrads)–he can study with her privately ($$$), but there seems to be some expectation that music majors will take lessons with the undergrad music department teachers; there are a lot of regulations about how many times you can take lessons for credit (which means you have to pay a fee to Yale), whether you can use your AP courses and still apply for the B.A./M.M. etc. </p>
<p>Since only one or two students are accepted to the Harvard/NEC joint degree, for a student who wants to access conservatory level ensembles and instruction and study at an Ivy League college or University, Yale might just be optimal. Or for a student whose playing is conservatory level, but who has decided to make music strictly an EC, Yale would be terrific. </p>
<p>S is currently visiting Princeton and informs me that the practice rooms in the dorm he is staying in are actually small studio apartments with overstuffed armchairs, liquor cabinets, etc. I am afraid he is not going to come back home.</p>