Music Performance - BM/BFA vs. BA path

College Majors Music Major
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<p>Thanks to all for your great insights. I have learned a lot from reading so many great posts. As the parent of a junior who has started visiting colleges trying to sort out music choices, I am now ready to post questions and help others by sharing our experience. </p>

<p>S is interested in music (classical) performance (double bass) and possibly composition for his studies, jazz and pit for fun. Also very good PSAT. Interested in exploring more than just music so pure conservatory out. Now trying to sort out conservatory in university vs liberal arts education, both likely followed by graduate studies if he stays with it. Prefers cooler climates. Have visited several colleges and now starting to understand the true alternatives. Trying to go a bit deeper to give him benefit of your experiences with similar choices. Here is what we learned so far.</p>

<p>BM/BFA (Bachelor of Music/FineArts) is conservatory - 80% music related so lots of exploration within music. Appears to be 1 elective/semester in no particular area. Hard to minor. Sometimes hard to do semester abroad. Practice/performance takes up 4-6 hours/day. Double majors/degrees if desired in area outside music take at least 5 years. Admission relies to very large extent on audition and number of seats available and possible theory test. Overall experience will depend very much on fit with studio teacher. However, to get into the university portion, you need high grades, etc. Social life/support system from university. Some schools better at integrating than others. Some receommend applying formally to both university and conservatory (not sure I get that part).</p>

<p>BA Music is liberal arts major, room for more exploration beyond music (which may enrich his appreciate for music in other ways and/or help to find other interests) including minors, etc. Practice/performance takes 1-2 hours day. Admission relies on liberal arts profile, scores and whole person. Auditions typically occur after admission for placement in ensembles or level placement in courses. Experience depences on liberal arts and science program match and strong musical post graduate placement services required to get accepted into MM.</p>

<p>Either type can lead to MM post graduate if performance continues to be focus. Not sure how likely it is for LA major in music is to get into top MM path but seems like MM program determines odds of getting into symphonic career so either can work. Really all too much for a 17 year old to have to think about.</p>

<li>Are both paths to MM really viable? </li>
<li>What don’t we know about each alternative that he should consider? </li>
<li>What preparation should a junior do that would best prepare for either choice (a lot can happen in 9 months until S applies) without burning out. What is most important? Time/stress are big considerations since S is AP/H student (his choice) and has not enough of one and too much of the other. </li>
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<p>Thanks in advance for all suggestions!</p>

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<p>You certainly have done your homework. I think now it comes down to what fits and goals. Unfortunately, as we experienced with our young musician, the fit and the goals constantly change. It might help if you could provide some specifics on your son's music training and academic interests.</p>

<p>You can probably already know the answer to your question on MM programs. An undergrad music background with conservatory-level training would be very helpful when auditioning for the best MM programs.</p>

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<p>double bass mom,</p>

<p>I know what you are going through. Daughter is currently on the five year plan at Oberlin working on a BM in double bass and a BA in math. While it is certainly not impossible to get into an MM program with a BA, someone who has been able to play for 4-6 hours per day for four years will have a huge advantage over someone who has only been playing 1-2 hours per day during that period.</p>

<p>You seem to have done your generic homework pretty well. It is time to be looking at the specifics of each school. Have you checked out the individual teachers yet? Is your son looking for someone in the more upright Simandl-method style, or more cello-like approach used in the Rabbath method? German bow or French? Has he selected audition pieces yet, and if so what are they? Would he be OK in a situation where there is only one bass teacher at the school, or would he prefer a larger department? How important is it to him to have a good jazz program at the same school? </p>

<p>To go the BM route, the most important thing he can do is work on his audition material, even at the expense of cutting back on some EC's and not taking the hardest course load possible next year. As I'm sure you have discovered, the audition counts for anywhere from about 60% to 99% of the admission decision to a BM program. Some schools, like Rice, CMU and BU look for both musical and academic talent, and that can work to the advantage of a good student. If you are applying to places like that, then he has to keep up both ends.</p>

<p>For the BA route, he would probably want to spend more time on maintaining his academic and EC involvement. He will still need to put in practice on the bass, but a more balanced approach would be the way to go.</p>

<p>At Oberlin, the advantage of applying to both programs at once is that you can take 17 credit hours per semester in freshman year with no extra fees involved. Those who are not officially in the double degree program there can only take 16 without having to pay extra. If you apply only to the conservatory, you have to take two courses in the college and get teacher recommendations from the teachers to get into the double degree program. That can take two or three semesters because, as you noted, BM students get only one elective per semester on average.</p>

<p>Having gone through this process a year ago, I have some very specific knowledge of schools and teachers that you may find useful. Please feel free to PM me if you want to pick my brain without boring the non-bassists to tears.</p>

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<p>It may depend on your son's natural ability at bass, whether he can manage the reduced availability of time to practice which is inevitable in double degree program and/or BA program and still become the level of player necessary to gain admission to premiere graduate program and achieve a professional career. He really must have opportunities with highest level orchestras to make that kind of progress.</p>

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<p>Thanks for starting this thread, double bass mom! We are beginning to have discussions on this same topic (DD is sophomore violinist). BassDad has provided us long time lurkers great info following his D's path to Oberlin, and my preliminary research turned up the same general info as yours. </p>

<p>My D (right now) thinks she may lean toward a BA, but is also interested in exploring music production/management/industry (she is interested in music across the spectrum although her performance focus is classical). She also loves humanities, languages, is a strong writer...so many choices! One of those 5-year programs, either double major or double degree, may be a good choice for her, we'll see...</p>

<p>At this point I think she feels that performance must always be a part of her life, but she's beginning to explore the options of how to make a career in music defined more broadly, with room to keep all her other interests evolving. So it will likely not be a conservatory setting for her.</p>

<p>And the prep-for-audition piece as BassDad decribes is so important (almost overwhelming). My D has already begun planning her repertoire selection and prep strategy with her violin teacher. They are trying to develop a 2-year plan that will get her from here to Jan 08 (!!) in the best shape possible, keeping in mind how to use that material (or not) for the audition opportunities that will come up in the meantime (youth orchestra, summer programs, concerto competitions...) And then of course, depending on the school, if she goes the BA route she may not need to audition after all (though some BA schools DO require auditions, we've discovered).</p>

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<p>The preparations for auditions should not be overwhelming. In fact my D's music teacher would not help with the audition prep until about 3 months before. She wanted to teach my D to play and not just play audition pieces. I guess she had a bad experience getting someone past an audition who was not actually at an appropriate overall level.</p>

<p>No matter how great your D works with her current teacher, I highly recommend pre-college conservatory training. Most conservatories have Saturday classes. If that is not feasible, consider a summer program. I will warn you that there may be no turning back. Once she plays with enthusiatic, dedicated performers, most non-conservatory programs will not fit. There are plenty of options to continue in college with high level music performance and academics. The term, conservatory, gets used loosely. Some of the university programs are equivalent or better than schools which call themselves conservatories.</p>

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<p>My son would agree with edad about auditioning. When he was finally done with traveling around to high school music festivals, and no longer had to be constantly preparing for auditions, he feels that he has been able to improve more musically.</p>

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<p>I don't think teachers should let the technique slide while prepping for auditions, but the repertoire requirements for conservatory level auditions can not be learned in 3 months. Most require some kind of unaccompanied solo work and a movement from a major concerto. Depending on instrument and type of school, they may also require a movement from a sonata, or music from different time periods. It takes planning to have an audition repertoire that is managable and yet meets the needs of the schools where you are applying.</p>

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<p>edad --</p>

<p>Clarification: I meant overwhelming to Mom! DD takes it all in stride :)</p>

<p>Her teacher is wonderful at helping her set goals and choose the right rep for her playing level and her own musical style/taste (personal "fit.") When I said planning for the next two years, I should have clarified that they work together on setting intermediate goals that will help her get to the level she'll need to be when the time comes. In fact, there are many audition "war horses" that her teacher hasn't begun yet because she wants to make sure certain skills improve before tackling them. Instead, she'll help D find a piece that will help her work on those skills while showcasing her strengths to advantage. So far, that seems to have worked for her. </p>

<p>For example even though almost every violinist in her youth orchestra is working on the Mendelssohn or the Bruch trying to get ready for the concerto competition, D is happy as a clam going deeper into Mozart 5. Same grade level in the adjudicator's handbook, but totally different playing challenges. She can saw her way through the Mendelssohn, but she shines in the Mozart. </p>

<p>My daughter is also a quirky kid who actually enjoys auditions and adjudications; she's not excessively competitive but she finds working towards auditions helps her focus and sharpens her playing in general.</p>

<p>I agree with your comments about the value of pre-college training for young musicians. Although we do not have access to the kind of Saturday pre-college conservatory program you desribe, she has had a range of training besides 10 years of private study: four years of strong summer programs, five years in a very good youth orchestra, occasional gigs with community ensembles. </p>

<p>As far as conservatories go, I was using the term to mean to mean the stand alone programs that have limited liberal arts or other options. I agree many of the universities offer high level programs in combination with strong academics, and based on her other interests they are probably more likely for her. (assuming she's good enough to get in!)</p>

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<p><a href="http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/787%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/787&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I still say that these articles which are from the Peabody Conservatory website are amongst the best things we all read before DS began his college search. The perspective they give is excellent. DS ultimately chose to audition only at universities with conservatory type programs, and conservatories. To be honest, I'm not sure why he chose Boston University over the conservatory acceptances, but it has been a wonderful decision for him. BU does have a wonderful music study abroad program for music majors affiliated with the Royal College of Music in London. DS did this in the fall this past year and it was a terrific experience. This study abroad was a tipping factor when he was making his choices...most conservatories do not have study abroad programs. He does take core courses in other departments at BU (8 courses required outside of the music department...he satisfied two with AP credits), and you can double major although it is not easy to do so...and it depends on the "other" major. It is not easy to do courses of study with significant lab requirements (any of the sciences) because those labs tend to be scheduled when the ensembles rehearse...and ensemble participation is required for all four years. BU says their program is a conservatory approach within a large university...we agree.</p>

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<p>Daughter's audition repertoire consisted of the Koussevitzky Concerto (all movements memorized), the Eccles Sonata (all movements), a Bach cello suite movement (memorized), substantial orchestral excerpts from Beethoven, Verdi and Mozart, and a Simandl etude. She needed everything except the third movement of the Koussevitzky at one college audition or another, but decided to learn the whole piece just to get a complete concerto unnder her belt. She built up this repertoire over two years while also working on technique and her overall playing level increased tremendously in that period. There was no way she could have learned all of that in three months.</p>

<p>I definitely agree concerning playing with top level programs before college. Exposure to the best teachers available and to other students playing at (and especially above) your level is a tremendous advantage.</p>

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<p>Thanks to all for terrific input. From your feedback, I can get a sense for the readiness requirements (some very specific to bass - thx bassdad) and the decision consequences. Very helpful. </p>

<p>S is still on the fence between alternatives. Anything else that could help a Junior decide at least where to start since Senior, summer and practice schedules need to be decided soon. edad, you mentioned the changes that our musicians are going through. I have seen a few changes already and want to support S but have this be his choice. Ideas anyone?</p>

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<p>DBM, your situation is kinda, roughly, sorta squarely in the middle between two of my kids. One is currently in the middle of intense conservatory training, enjoying every minute, and surely wouldn't be happy anywhere else. Horn is his major, but he also plays piano, and composes, and has opportunity for both. The only non-music course he takes is humanities, where the emphasis is on arts in society! (He will also have the opportunity to take foreign languages.) </p>

<p>The other is a HS junior, a talented violinist who wants to continue studying and playing in college, but has no interest in a music emphasis, even as a minor. So for her, we look for schools where she will be able to participate as a non-major. She will have to sacrifice the level of orchestra quality, I think, because the highest quality orchestras are schools with lots of talented music majors who fill the spots. My H was also a talented violinist, who majored in engineering, and violin fell by the wayside. I'm so afraid this will happen to D. It is not easy to serve two masters. The reality, though, is that you make time for what really matters to you. In his case, engineering is his first love.</p>

<p>As far as what to do between now and senior year, to cement your S's decision, here are some suggestions:
1. Send him to an intensive music summer camp. Or sample several different weekly camps. This will quickly help him determine if he can stand constant music and nothing else. Can he stand playing with lesser-quality orchestras? Or orchestras where he's at the bottom of the section because everybody's better than him? Tuck in a week of camp doing something else -- how does he feel about sacrificing his music for something else that week? My S opted to not do Governor's Honors because they were required to have a "minor" where they spent time unrelated to their "major" - and he just was not interested.</p>

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<li> Have him take as many auditions as possible. Google for competitions and such. Can he stand the "losing"? The tension? The focus on perfection?</li>
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<p>These first two things will either make or break a musician. My D absolutely cannot stand the competition aspect of music. She loves to perform, but she plays for herself, and is easily discouraged. My S doesn't necessarily like the competition aspects either, but accepts it as a price to get where he wants to be, and sees it as a hurdle to conquer. He is passion personified, where as she has talent, and enjoys it, nothing more.</p>

<ol>
<li> Have him contact schools of interest, and find out as much about them as possible. Get sample lessons with teachers. Communicate with students who go there. Visit a broad spectrum of campuses and programs. Even crossing off a certain kind of campus or program will help. I want to suggest Indiana-Bloomington as a starting point. Wide variety of majors and minors, great music program, great strings (don't know specifically about double bass), lovely campus, 4-seasons climate.<br></li>
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<p>The Peabody essays Thumper linked to are full of good perpective, too.</p>

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<p>Indiana has an excellent bass program. The only drawback is that there are about 40 double bass performance majors there and it could be very easy to get lost in the crowd. You may want to ask about playing opportunities for non-performance majors.</p>

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<p>Binx, great points! </p>

<p>My D went away to an all-music-all-the time summer camp for the first time at age 11. It was for four weeks and her first sleepaway experience and I was a little concerned about her jumping in the deep end like that. I was amazed at how she soaked it up, just couldn't get enough. The time flew by way too fast for her. Every summer since, her month at an intensive music program is the highlight of her year. </p>

<p>She also takes as many auditions as possible, for the experience and the training. She has a teacher who's worked hard to help her sharpen her auditioning skills, which seems to be a useful addition to her musician's tool-box, from my observation.</p>

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<p>I also recommend an intense summer music program if at all possible. My son attended Interlochen for 8 weeks the summer after 9th grade. We dropped him off and then when back 3 weeks later to visit. He was waiting for us in the parking lot, which I knew was not a good sign. However, when he greeted us the first thing out his mouth was, "Mom, I have found heaven!" There were many things about Interlochen he didn't like, but he loved doing music 24/7. After that experience, we felt ok about him deciding to pursue a conservatory. </p>

<p>We have found at the conservatory (he attends Eastman) that he needs to do something else besides music, however. The one semester he didn't take a non-music class he was very unhappy. Since then, he makes sure he always takes something completely unrelated to music. His primary outside interest is political science, so he has taken most of his classes in this department. He won't have a major or even a minor, but he has taken classes of interest and has enjoyed most of them very much. We are very happy that he has been at Eastman and has the availability of classes at the University of Rochester. He has also played intramural soccer and ultimate through the UR intramural program. However, music has always come first and he has always been willing to sacrafice one of his other activities if the music demanded it.</p>

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<p>Binx is spot-on in suggesting an intensive summer music program to help decide if this is the route a kid wants to take. DS thought he wanted to major in music composition when he was in HS, but had never really had much opportunity to STUDY how to write. I lucked out and found the website for the Walden School, and we managed to sneak his application in under the deadline wire. When we arrived after 5 weeks of camp to attend Festival Week, DS was glowing like a lantern and couldn't wait for us to hear what he'd written. The time spent at camp had totally solidified his desire to write music, and he went on to Peabody, where he's finishing his Masters in Composition this semester. The more chances a kid has to "try out" a lifestyle, the easier it is to determine if this is the right lifestyle.</p>

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<p>You have all been so helpful. Thx again. One more question about the summer....My S has taken a slightly different route to explore his music talents during the summer than most of the posters. He traveled for 5 weeks last summer with our local youth orchestra performing several concerts in 6 countries across Latin America for all sorts of audiences. Loved it. Other summers he was accepted into a local university chamber program for 3 weeks, a state string program for a week and has worked in a music store tuning instruments. Loved those too.</p>

<p>As he looks across many of the programs available for this summer, he again was looking for a variety of experiences that lead to both a music experience (eg. one or more of the following...one week orchestra program in Madison in late June, one week bass program held at Georgetown in early August, one day bass program at Eastman in early July) combined with a job and practicing his driving near home, drafting college essays, etc. (Note: Many of the programs he liked start too early in June for our state test schedule).</p>

<p>To best prepare for making the BM/BA decision, are there any shorter programs for string musicians that any would recommend? We have ready access to the NYC area if there are day programs that might work. Thx to all.</p>

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<p>Hal Robinson (principal bass of the Philadelphia orchestra and bass instructor at Curtis Institute of Music) teaches at Strings International, a two-week camp held at Bryn Mawr college. He is one of the best in the business and you will find his name mentioned as a teacher in the bios of many symphony players and college bass teachers. See <a href="http://www.stringscamp.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.stringscamp.com&lt;/a> for more information. </p>

<p>Two bass players who attended Strings International in 2003 made it into the Tanglewood BUTI program in 2004. That year's crop of Tanglewood bass players was particularly talented, with virtually the entire section becoming performance majors at top programs like Curtis, Juilliard, Rice, Oberlin, NEC, Boston University and one of the top music schools in Japan. Tanglewood itself is a great program, but longer than you want for this year and the auditions are already over anyway. You might consider it for next year. While many students there are rising seniors, a fair number are also in the summer between high school and college. See <a href="http://www.bu.edu/cfa/music/tanglewood/index.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.bu.edu/cfa/music/tanglewood/index.htm&lt;/a> for more information.</p>

<p>The Georgetown week (formerly held at University of Maryland) is also very good with a chance to meet people like Francois Rabbath and Rufus Reid. A high percentage of the attendees are students of George Vance, who runs that week. It is not quite as intense as Strings International and nowhere near as intense as Tanglewood. A lot of the older students head off-campus in the evenings. A lot of the younger ones live within commuting distance and do not stay in the dorms.</p>

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<p>A comment on the MM option after attending a more intense vs more inclusive of other areas program for the bachelors degree.</p>

<p>I was discussing this with an administrator from Peabody and his point was that admission into a Masters program is very competitive and you will be competing with people that have worked only on music for 4 years.</p>

<p>My own anology would be one golfers would understand. You can get a birdie with a 150 yd drive into the rough of a 300 yd into the fairway. One is easier and more likely.</p>

<p>My only other comment would be if a student thinks they might want to study something other than or in addition to music performance you should strongly suggest they go in that direction.</p>

<p>Finally one thing I notice is there can be a big difference in highly competitve instruments and those less so. Not to downplay the importance or quality of one instrument over another but you should recognize a double bass players situation is different than a violinist and a tuba different than a flute.</p>