<p>I'd like a little advice from those who have been in this situation before. My S has been accepted at conservatories, private and public colleges for music performance. The struggle is do we go with a conservatory where he will be totally immersed in music with lots of top notch musicians around and pay quite a hefty sum for 4 years, or do we go with a school that has excellent teachers but not the level of musicianship but is giving a substantial amount of merit aid. I have heard that where you do your graduate study is more important than the undergrad study. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!</p>
<p>First of all - congratulations on these options! </p>
<p>My d is a senior, so I’m speaking from the point of view of our thought process last fall (not from the perspective of having a college-age musician).</p>
<p>Has your son spent any extended time hanging out with students at a conservatory? Does he have the opportunity to do so, before making his final decision?</p>
<p>My D was dating someone who attends a conservatory; while I went nuts over how much time she spent there (rather than doing homework and applications), it did show her that she wants to have the conservatory experience as a grad student, not as an undergrad. Altho it’s affiliated with a major university (3-5 miles away), the music kids did not travel to the main campus; they went from dorm to school to dorm. She also realized that she wanted a large music department (500 or more) rather than a small music department.</p>
<p>As for finances, we made the decision to spend less as an u/g if the opportunity presents itself, because we know she will need graduate school (as a musician or anything else), and a rainy-day nest egg for when she’s looking for work…</p>
<p>My D is a French horn player and wants to study Music Education. We visited a few conservatories and she decided that a conservatory was not the place for her. She felt that she wanted more opportunities to interact with people of varied interests. While she loves to play her horn, she doesn’t feel the need or desire to play it many hours a day because she is not looking for a career in performance. </p>
<p>As a parent who is a teacher, I was really glad that she made the decision that she did because I wasn’t so certain that the conservatory model emphasizes the education component enough. I want her to be well prepared for a teaching career. She won’t be spending much time playing her horn as a teacher, but she will need to be well prepared in education in order to be a successful music teacher.</p>
<p>My D plans to go to UNH as an OOS student where the horn teacher is one of the best in the country. She has been accepted and we are waiting to hear what size talent scholarship she will get. UNH offers one of the most generous talent scholarships around- up to full tuition. We have our fingers crossed. </p>
<p>I guess the decision about conservatory vs music department really depends on the individual. We feel that our D’s best fit is at a regular university.</p>
<p>Without knowing the schools, it is difficult to offer an opinion. Some Universities/Colleges have music programs that would rival any Conservatory (Rice, USC, , IU, Michigan, UT-Austin-just to name a few).
I do think what others have said about dorm life is important to consider. Does your child want to live with ONLY musicians? I know for my D, she wanted to live with a more diverse group. She wanted a really strong music program, but with lots of different people to hang out with at the end of the day.</p>
<p>scokithom, we are going through a similar process but for in state vs an out of state school, where the cost differential is huge. Our D unfortunately needs to have a high level of muscianship around her to excel. If your S is highly self-motivated and can work to his highest potential no matter the setting, then it won’t matter as much where he goes as long as he has a great teacher. (I am inferring from your post that it is not the “conservatory vs university” setting that is the issue, but the money.)</p>
<p>When D3 faced this dilemma last year, she asked a number of professional musicians their opinion. The older ones felt that she should go for the “name” school, while the younger ones (still paying off student loans?) thought she should take the big scholarship and create “prestige” opportunities for herself along the way.</p>
<p>For her, picking the right teacher was the most important part, but it didn’t hurt a bit that the teacher she felt was the best fit also worked at the place offering the best aid. She’s finishing her first year now, and thinks she made the right decision. She also likes having all the resources of a university at hand - if she wants to attend a sports event or do community service, there are already opportunities available.</p>
<p>
^I’d second that sentiment – many of those were schools my son looked at two years ago. He chose University of Michigan, where the school of music is a tight-knit community, but the cross pollination with regular Michigan programs (such as the Film program or even their underground humor magazine) has certainly enriched his university experience. In his case, it was a much better fit. Eg. because of the environment, his film scoring & sound class works with senior film production students on a festival film, meaning he gets exposure of semi-pro boom operating, mixing and composing.
At the same time, there’s no shortage of profs at his school that were conservatory trained, so YMMV 
I bet your son will have a strong gut feel one way of the other. I am also not sure at the end of the day that it matters, since the inspired will take what’s available to them and succeed.</p>
<p>^Except, of course, when it comes to cost/debt. That is a ball and chain best avoided UG for music students if they want to be free to pursue the type of freelance-ish work like that awaits many of them.</p>
<p>Cost + teacher should be your two major decision-making factors.</p>
<p>A name brand school is not going to guarantee anything, and the school’s prestige should have little to no effect in the process, imo. It is essential that your son find the right fit for him. Is he one of those people who will go crazy with ALL music ALL the time? Or would he benefit more from having a more worldly education experience? Does he want a small department where there are more opportunities to perform and such, or a much larger department where perhaps there is a risk of fading into the background?
Of course, whether or not one “fades” is left entirely up to the student. Would he benefit from being constantly bombarded by massive levels of talent surrounding him in the form of competition, or is he capable of maintaining high standards by himself with less of a constant reminder?</p>
<p>Teacher fit is very important. How many of these professors has he met and had lessons with? It is VITAL that he has good chemistry and a good working relationship with a teacher. A certain professor may be world renowned on their instrument but if pupil and pedagogue do not match, it will be a wasted endeavour.</p>
<p>There are many universities which have excellent music programs as has been mentioned, with the enormous benefit of a more normal college setting (and the option to double degree). One more thing…I go to a state uni, and it has been proven to me here over and over again that a student’s level of dedication, and teacher fit matter more than the school’s name, in terms of being a successful performer.</p>
<p>My D is at Oberlin and has the best scenario for her: Conservatory studies and easy access to additional college studies/opportunities. She was never interested in a big school experience - in fact, shied away from it. She has a music major for a roommate (piano) and she likes that - but not another singer. She loves everything about Oberlin - her voice teacher in particular, but really all of the teachers, the campus, dorm, food, social activities. She doesn’t even complain too much about the weather. For us, it was an easy decision because this school was her first choice and all the others were way behind.</p>
<p>My son made the decision that he wanted a full scale university setting rather than a conservatory after visiting both situations. It was a life style, social decision on his part. He felt he would a lot happier at a traditional university than at a conservatory.</p>
<p>I think the choice is going to be different for every student. My son, who was very academically oriented, ended up going to conservatory. The teacher was the major draw, but he loved being around the high caliber of students that were present. The conservatory setting challenged him musically more than anything he had ever done. He is now 27, has an MM, and still thinks that conservatory was the best route for him. He applied to Rice and would have loved to attend, but was waitlisted. Rice is one of the most competitive music schools around, so while it is a great choice, it is very difficult for undergrads to be admitted.</p>
<p>My son had the same dilemma and is now a freshman at USC Thornton. </p>
<p>Someone mentioned a conservatory allowing one to be “totally immersed in music.” Well, my son IS totally immersed in music at USC, so it seems to offer the best of both worlds. In his dorm there are students of many majors, so in that way, he’s having a typical college experience. But in his class, social and extra-curricular life - it’s all music. 24/7. </p>
<p>(As BM, he has one GE course per semester, but even a straight up conservatory will have these requirements.)</p>
<p>Some university-based conservatories are just as musically intense, or close to it, as those that stand alone.</p>
<p>This is what worked best for him.</p>
<p>Last night I “caught” my (high school) son reading a psychology textbook. He isn’t taking psychology, I asked him why he is reading it, he said that he just wanted to know what they taught in psychology.</p>
<p>He is also very excited about some of the more unusual (for our area) activities that some of the colleges that he did apply for. He is now trying to choose between joining the fencing club or playing intramural hocky (he has no experiance at either) or resuming martial arts classes in college.</p>
<p>Thats the reason that I didn’t push him to apply at any conservatories. I think he needs something in addition to music. I also think that he will get plenty of music at any of the colleges he applied at. Most music majors are at least 70% music, and he will have just as much individual practice and ensemble participation as he would at a conservatory.</p>
<p>One thing that you do need to check at the larger schools is to see if the “main” professor for your students instrument will be teaching him for his applied music classes, or if he would just have a grad student teaching. I would have never have thought to have asked that question without someone on this forum bringing up the issue. Fortunantly, at all four colleges that my son applied at he would be taught by the top instructor for his instrument.</p>
<p>I also have some doubts if the professors at conservatories are that much better than professors at regular colleges. I don’t know. What I do know is that at least 2 colleges that my son applied at, the professors for his instruments are all very accomplished musicians and have degrees from prestgious colleges. Dr. Malvern at Furman has a BM from Oberlin and a MM and DMA from Yale and he has performed all over the works and still performs in a symphony. Professor Ackley at the University of South Carolina has a BM from Baldwin-Wallace College a MM from the Cleveland Institute of Music and also has played all over the world and currently performs as a guest performer for major orchestras. USC will also be having Allen Vizzutti as a “guest” trumpet professor.</p>
<p>He researched some conservatories, and said that he was going to apply. I told him that he was welcome to apply and that he could use my credit card to pay the application fee. He never came to me for the credit card. Now he just says “dang, I ment to apply at Juliard but I forgot and it is too late”. Sometimes I think that he “forgets” to do the things that he knows in his heart are not the best option for him.</p>
<p>I think there are excellent teachers, with superb training, at many, many schools, including those that are not known to have strong music departments. What differs considerably is the caliber of students. Some schools of music or universities have students enrolled who are of a lower caliber musically than those at good pre-college programs. This would not be a satisfactory setting for students who need the push of more advanced musicians for ensembles, etc. Some students might thrive on being a big fish in a small sea; many would not. </p>
<p>For these students, it is much more than just the teacher who makes a school a good fit. The talent and musicality of the rest of the students is equally important.</p>
<p>Of course, finances sometimes trumps all, but all things being equal, students need to look at the caliber of the other students, as well as the teacher.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the input. Like everyone, when you’ve invested so much in instruments, lessons,camps and time, you just want to ensure that your child will be in the best all around scenario for success in music performance. My S wants to be an orchestral performer. He is accepted to CIM which has an awesome collaboration with the Cleveland Orchestra and would be studying with a member of the orchestra. To me the perfect situation for my S. However, this would be relatively expensive. On the other hand, he has acceptances to other schools with a very good teacher at each where he can get a substantial amount of merit aid. I know there are no guarantees for success in each case and it will be up to him to succeed. I just feel that being at CIM would set him up better for the future musically. Hopefully we’ll make the best decision come May 1.</p>
<p>Looks like the overwhelming majority here recommend university over conservatory. And follow the money. Just want to chime in as the outlier here, and say we paid big bucks for the conservatory option and have no regrets. I believe my S is where he is now based on the decisions we made way back when. But who is to say a different decision wouldn’t have led to the same result? (For privacy reasons, I haven’t shared where my S is now, but he is doing well. I do believe doors were opened due to his education, both directly and indirectly.)</p>
<p>As most of you know, we made a completely different choice with a different child, based on her goals.</p>
<p>It is a very, very individual choice that has to do with instrument, personal goals, and comfort levels of debt and risk.</p>
<p>Allmusic had a great point about the quality of students one would be surrounded by. My son recieved a fairly good music scholarship offer from his last choice school, which when combined with a state academic scholarship would pay for nearly the entire cost of college. I have tried to encourage him not to rule it out yet, at least until we get scholarship info about the other colleges, but he will not even begin to consider it.</p>
<p>He says that he doesn’t want to go there because he doesn’t want to be in a position where he spends all of his time helping others or trying to compensate for their inability during ensemble performances (as he has done in high school). He’d rather be that worst performer surrounded by great performers than to be the best out of a group of mediocre performers.</p>
<p>When you go to an audition and play two notes and they say “OK, you can stop, your in” may be an indicator that the other students at that school may not be among the best.</p>
<p>I also think that it is important to look at the curriculum at the schools you are looking at. Our state flagship has a very good music program, but it has a couple of deficiencies that I see. One of the big ones is that there is no orchestra repertory class for string students. At the conservatory, son had 1 required semester and 1 optional. Even though he was not interested in auditioning for an orchestra gig, he took both and feels like it was well worth his time and effort in case he ever does decide to go that route. Without this kind of class, students interested in auditioning for an orchestra are at a decided disadvantage. However, as a parent, I would never have known it was an issue. </p>
<p>So I would look at what the required courses are for the various programs and what the elective offerings are. If you see something that doesn’t make sense, ask. The amount of theory classes required at schools varies somewhat. Some schools only require 3 semesters, other require up to 5. I am not sure why that is or how it might impact the future for you child, but it might be worth inquiring about.</p>