Our student has applied to transfer for fall 2023 after almost 2 years of bullying by studio professor.
Anyone have any infor or experience with CCM and Lawrence? Joe are their programs? Oboe studios ?
Thanks !
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I’m just so sorry to hear this. When people ask about performance music schools, my answer is always, always look first at the teacher, and their reputation, including how they are to work with, and then at the school of music, the academics, the location. Your student can probably find out much more via reddit, facebook groups, etc that are frequented by college aged oboe students than you could find out here.
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Just for the record they did all that. They thought they choose the best teacher and did not focus on the school.
It is a nightmare. This person should not be allowed to teach. I’m a professor in higher education and cannot believe this treatment/behavior/abuse is being allowed.
Their fear now is that they thought they did all they could to choose the right fit with a teacher. And here they are.
So reaching out here to see if anyone has experiences with either of those studios is one resource to help our student decide .
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I don’t know about piano, but my son was accepted at Lawrence EA. He had visited and really liked the students/faculty and all the opportunities around Appleton. He has had a sample lesson with the current teacher(cello) who is not the faculty member who first got him interested in Lawerence. We also discovered that another teacher my son had performed in a master class for and liked had also been a professor there.
The Lawrence vibe seems collegial, so I would consider them! We have had nothing but positive experiences with their faculty and students.
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@sillinessforBschools i think this student is an oboe player.
But I do love your description of the collegial nature of the college.
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Whoops. For some reason I mentally inserted, “piano” into studio. I noticed the oboe mention and somehow my brain still overrode it… 
Sorry.
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I just sent you a private message. You should see a small icon at the top right corner of your screen.
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This is horrid. In hindsight, there were any red flags that were brushed aside because of other positive qualities? I’m asking so that we know what to look out for as we evaluate programs/faculty. Thanks, and good luck!
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I support your music student transferring if they are having a bad time. However, I would NOT recommend Lawrence U. I have multiple kids who are in college or have graduated, including one there. It can be hard to transfer between music programs so I would recommend students transfer as soon as they see their current school could be a problem, it can be impossible later on. For what it is worth, I have music students too and there is a ton of advice out there about pursuing prestigious schools and professors. My suggestion is choose a school that is going to offer the right social support for your student. Even with a good studio teacher, it will not work if the rest of the school and student body are negatives, even if you think social issues are not a priority for your particular student. I am sorry about what your student is going through.
Is your student unhappy there or is it just a hard school to transfer into because of how they structure their program? If your student is unhappy, could you share with what? Thanks.
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It is difficult to be a transfer student at Lawrence, both administratively and socially. It is a very small school and a lot of effort is directed toward the freshman experience and integrating freshman, and not transfer students. There will be a lot of problems transferring credits and being able to graduate, even problems getting adequate advising. Socially things are pretty insular and not very open for people from out of town. For a student who has already had problems, there are plenty more problems going on at LU. Honestly, a larger school would just have more resources and a larger social scene where a transfer student might find their place. I have been to many many music schools around the country and honestly I think some of the best professors are also in the large public schools. My 2 cents. Professors should not just be good musicians but should also care about people, and care about how to teach. I would also not recommend Lawrence if the student is in any kind of minority group.
Thanks. My son is thinking of attending, but not as a transfer, and any information helps! We don’t live nearby.
I’m going to make a few “general” comments knowing both IU and Lawrence pretty well (meaning I know quite a few students that went to both…and I grew up in Appleton WI).
I want to make it clear that I am in no way questionning the experience of the OP. I do believe that there are bad teachers and situations that cannot be resolved. I wish the best for this student. The comments below are not a response to their situation in particular.
1.) Lawrence - my D’s best friend from high school graduated from there. My D lived with another woman who graduated from there. Living in MN, a lot of students go there (music and none). In general, the school gets high marks as inclusive and supportive.
2.) I know a kid that transfered Jr year from U of MN (a big school) to Lawrence after just being disappointed for 2 years. He loved Lawrence. He did know some people there however being from this area.
3.) None of these students were in the music dept but were acting and music adjacent. Meaning they all had performance/music skills and had opportunities at Lawrence even as non-majors. They were very positive about all aspects of the school.
4.) I know of many kids from the music dept that had great growth and went on to top grad programs and now perform. I also know one girl who had a really hard time at Lawrence (program and teacher). I heard various opinions on it. But she did graduate in the end, did a little music and then moved on with her life in a different direction.
5.) All were white. I get the comment on diversity (my D is bi-racial and looks Asian). This became an issue when my D was looking at small LACs. At first, she really liked them…later she didn’t…bc she already came from a high school that was predominately white but in a city where she could perform with POC. Even if the school was 5% Asian (high for an LAC), that’s 5% of a small class (meaning a few people). If a big U was 5% Asian, that could be a lot more people and she could blend in (at IU, in the music area, she felt like she blended in). My D has little interest in being a “diversity representative” on campus. But some POC do like this role or the atmosphere doesn’t concern them. So I do think that it depends on the POC kid and their attitude and goals.
6.) Teachers - they retire, leave, need back surgery or turn out not to be the best for your student even after all your efforts to make an informed choice. Checking the number of teachers for an instrument can be a wise move. If something doesn’t work out, the adminstration should assist the student to make a change. This is common enough. Many students are able to transfer teachers within schools without a lot of fanfare. Of course, you hear the “horror stories”. At IU, I saw it done regularly for various reasons (fach change, interest change, plateauing, rapid growth, personality conflicts etc). In general, it was not a negative experience (but I’m sure there are exceptions).
7.) At both IU and Lawrence (and all other schools that I know) students can have a tough time with their teacher or the program for many, many reasons. As a parent, it’s not a bad idea to think…hmmm…what could my student do here if they decide NOT to do music. Most freshmen and sophomore classes lose a student or two or three…sometimes just to the fact that a student gets interested in something else. That’s OK. And, transfering is OK. However it is most likely true that a transfer in Jr year may be tough…still if a student is really unhappy…there’s always time for a change.
I always write too much…lol. But I hope that this is helpful. Your student will really need to use their gut instinct. The teacher is very important…however don’t under-estimate the environment and peers. Many elements need to be considered when making a choice. Don’t put all your eggs into the one, great teacher basket. Try to find an environment where they will HAPPY!
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Thank you to all who took time to reply to this thread.
I’m not sure I’m understanding the constructive feedback that strongly states DO NOT go to LU. If the information being shared is because they are a trimester school and our student would be transferring from a semester school I can see the concern. I’d appreciate any clarification you could provide. Is something bad happening there ?
Neither school has the option to change studio teachers. Both schools only have 1 teacher. IU oboe studio has 16 student - 7 are auditioning to transfer. Whether they do or not is another story but that is quite telling . They will finish auditioning next month.
LU was our student’s first choice based on experience on campus and such. However it was the only school they could see at their campus because of COVID19. They got into several “prestigious” music programs and did their best to find a good fit virtually.
LU now has a two term course for transfer students to provide them with something similar to the freshman experience.
I could see how it could be hard to transfer into a small school. Groups are formed and such. Very big concern as our student keeps asking when will they have a “college experience “. They were very social in high school.
But currently at this large school our student has one friend - their roommate for the past two years. Our son doesn’t party and the studio doesn’t get together socially because of the competitive nature of the studio. Not partying at a large school seems to make it quite difficult to find your people.
So sorry to hear of your student’s bad experience. I do not know if he is open to exploring beyond Lawrence and CCM but a few schools with excellent reputations for oboe include: ASU, Colorado U, Bard, Oberlin, NEC. Not sure of the ease of transfer or the availability of merit money, but I am familiar with the teachers there and my kid has cohorts in those programs who have been happy.
Good luck.
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I will say I have a quiet, quirky, non-party kid at a big ten school that makes every party school list doing music and a stem degree and he has done fine socially. He has engineering friends and music friends, is graduating this semester and still doesn’t drink. His studio teacher organizes social events for his studio regularly. The vibe seems much more collaborative than competitive throughout the music program. Actually, on audition day, I was struck by how warm his department felt. You could tell they loved teaching, working with students, and liked each other too. My other kid is dual enrolling at a big school and has actually socially connected to a number of other students just dipping her toes in a music department couple days a week on campus. I am very sorry your student is having that experience. I don’t think that is uniform across larger schools at all.
FWIW, we are in the midwest and most of the students we know who have gone to Lawrence (music and otherwise) have had a very postive experience there. My daughter is excited to audition there soon.
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Thank you so much for this reply.
I so wish our student was having this positive experience at a Big 10. They are very social and it is not happening.Then add the bullying which they won’t report because the oboe world is small and it is not a good mix. And there was serious issues in the jazz studio related to SA and it appears to the students that IU Jacobs is looking the other way.
I think our student is brave to say their truth and consider options that could be healthier for them. Afraid, concerned but determined.
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My C22 seriously considered LU but in the end went to Ithaca. LU is a wonderful and supportive school. I was very impressed with everything I saw when we visited. I have never worried about my kid finding a group at these smaller schools because I feel like the music department and studio provides that group from day one. He ended up not going to LU because of the trimester schedule not meshing with summer music plans and he wanted something a little bigger.
If he is still adding to the list, I would strongly recommend Ithaca College. As much as I like LU, Ithaca’s facilities are far better. I think faculty is stronger as well, but I’m sure it greatly depends on your instrument. Ithaca just hired the director of bands from UNT starting next fall – that should take the music department in a very exciting direction!
I just reread and saw this if for Fall 23. So too late for Ithaca, but I’ll leave my comments for someone else who may be looking. Best of luck.
Sending you a DM